TX - Cameron Redus, 23, UIW student, fatally shot by campus PD officer, 6 Dec 2013

[jjenny]

Witnesses are frequently wrong and mistaken. There is no video, but at least there is an adio.
Everything that officer told Redus was taped. And from what police has said, officer gave Redus many commands.

 

[Paragirl]

Two Senseless Shootings Shake San Antonio in This Season of Good Will

http://therivardreport.com/two-senseless-shootings-shake-san-antonio-in-this-season-of-good-will/

Shared feelings of unease, doubt and insecurity seem to hang like a dark winter sky over the city. Students and parents of students worry about the safety of campus life. How could what looked like a questionable off-campus traffic stop devolve into UIW Cpl. Christopher Carter, a campus cop, fatally killing Robert Cameron Redus, 23, in a volley of fire at point-blank range?

Downtown at the still-new San Antonio Public Safety Headquarters, where police and fire fighters work hand in hand, officers talk quietly about one of their own, San Antonio Police Officer Robert Deckard, who was shot by fleeing armed robbers during a high-speed chase across county lines.

This is a good moment to stop and think about how we civilians regard police. We take them for granted, and everyone knows it.

 

[wfgodot]

Witnesses are frequently wrong and mistaken. There is no video, but at least there is an adio.
Everything that officer told Redus was taped. And from what police has said, officer gave Redus many commands.

Well, we've heard there is no video. How convenient. And we've heard, "this is the audio that took place right then." Quite frankly all is in question, in my mind.

 

[jjenny]

Well, we've heard there is no video. How convenient. And we've heard, "this is the audio that took place right then." Quite frankly all is in question, in my mind.

There are more than one witness.

"One witness has told investigators he saw a "violent struggle" between the two, Pruitt said. Police have not publicly identified that witness or witnesses who reported they had heard the confrontation."

Read more here: http://www.modbee.com/2013/12/12/3085242/family-questions-remain-about.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Paragirl]

From the same article above. Good questions. I have been wondering many of these same things myself:

Why was Alamo Heights Police Chief Richard Pruitt so quick to defend Crawford’s decisions and actions?

Carter has held nine different jobs in area law enforcement in the last nine years. His is not a career built on success stories. His resume suggests an itinerant cop who wears out his welcome fast and then is moved along to the next job to repeat the cycle. It’s doubtful there will be a job for him at UIW when the dust settles. Will he find another force willing to take him on?

Carter has changed jobs and uniforms so many times over so many years, it’s impossible not to doubt his version of events.

The Alamo Heights police, who were given the wrong address by a UIW dispatcher asking for backup, weren’t present for the incident. Yet Alamo Heights Police Chief Richard Pruitt already has declared publicly that Carter acted appropriately.

Carter should have checked Redus’ identification. Once he confirmed he was home and had reached “safe harbor” he should have issued a written warning and sent the student to his apartment to sleep it off. No harm done, but don’t let there be a next time. Instead he attempted to handcuff and arrest Redus when common sense and a cool head were the weapons best deployed in the situation.

Carter should have waited for Alamo Heights police, who were delayed by a wrong address, before moving to arrest Redus if he felt such an arrest was absolutely necessary. Since when are arrests made before conducting a field sobriety test?

Assuming Carter is truthful and Redus grew violent, why did the officer attempt to subdue him without law enforcement help? Had he awaited backup, one officer could have subdued Redus with a Taser or pepper spray, which Carter was not carrying, while one or two other officers restrained him with handcuffs.

And more...

 

[wfgodot]

There are more than one witness.

"One witness has told investigators he saw a "violent struggle" between the two, Pruitt said. Police have not publicly identified that witness or witnesses who reported they had heard the confrontation."

Read more here: http://www.modbee.com/2013/12/12/3085242/family-questions-remain-about.html#storylink=cpy

Thanks for the link jjenny.

I really think that this was about some campus cop who'd worked nine jobs in eight years trying to prove himself though. Whatever took place at the apartments was an escalation caused by this cop trying to be macho. Things like this cannot be allowed to stand.

 

[jjenny]

Thanks for the link jjenny.

I really think that this was about some campus cop who'd worked nine jobs in eight years trying to prove himself though. Whatever took place at the apartments was an escalation caused by this cop trying to be macho. Things like this cannot be allowed to stand.

I am waiting on the tox screen to come back. I believe it will answer a lot of questions.

 

[Paragirl]

Witnesses are frequently wrong and mistaken. There is no video, but at least there is an adio.
Everything that officer told Redus was taped. And from what police has said, officer gave Redus many commands.

The problem is that audio doesn't show us who was hitting or attacking who. Perhaps the audio recording confirms that Carter gave repeated commands but we don't know what was actually happening while he was giving those commands. Carter COULD have had Redus against the wall and been beating him with his baton and all the while telling him to stop resisting. Wouldn't be the first time. And we don't know because there is NO VIDEO.

 

[LambChop]

The problem is that audio doesn't show us who was hitting or attacking who. Perhaps the audio recording confirms that Carter gave repeated commands but we don't know what was actually happening while he was giving those commands. Carter COULD have had Redus against the wall and been beating him with his baton and all the while telling him to stop resisting. Wouldn't be the first time. And we don't know because there is NO VIDEO.

But wasn't it Carter who hard injuries consistent the being beaten with a long flat object?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Mostly a repeat of the same info we already know but a more detailed discussion re state licensing powers.





BBM



http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/14/san-d14.html

There seems to be conflicting MSM articles on who got the location wrong.

What I find most troubling in these articles, is the lack of mention of potential consequences for choosing to commit a crime and then resisting and attacking a officer. It doesn't matter if the person resisting is a gang member, or a highly upstanding member of the community. It's the criminal acts that are committed that ultimately lead to the end result.

If data were to be analyzed in officer shootings that result in death, it would be extremely rare to see a officer shoot someone unless they were doing so to protect the public or themselves. It would be extremely rare to see someone get shot by an officer, that wasn't committing a crime, resisting, or threatening harm to another.

Painting a picture that officers are bad people that want to harm others, or "deliberately conspire" to harm others, hurts the relationship between the public and LE. LE and the community need to have a healthy relationship in order to work together to prevent and solve crimes.

 

[wfgodot]

But wasn't it Carter who hard injuries consistent the being beaten with a long flat object?

Carter declined treatment for any "injuries." We don't even know who saw these. Another police department's word is all we have about any of this. Was he seen by a medical professional? Was this officially documented?

 

[jjenny]

Under TX law, cop has an option of defending himself if being attacked.
Which is what he says happened. And if he is telling the truth, then it's isn't murder.
But a case of self-defense.

 

[wfgodot]

Under TX law, cop has an option of defending himself if being attacked.
Which is what he says happened. And if he is telling the truth, then it's isn't murder.
But a case of self-defense.

I agree - but these are at the end of the story. What we have, in my opinion, is some jumped-up campus cop who can't keep a steady job, who has forgotten his pepper spray, and who is toodling about to Whataburger on Broadway in S.A. TX and his camera has "fallen off," when he conveniently says he sees a kid driving erratically. AND SHOOTS HIM TO DEATH.

It is SO convenient that those defending this guy just see that scene in the parking lot and imagine this was all that happened. In a parking lot, where he lived. He'd gotten home okay. Till he was shot five times.

 

[jjenny]

I agree - but these are at the end of the story. What we have, in my opinion, is some jumped-up campus cop who can't keep a steady job, who has forgotten his pepper spray, and who is toodling about to Whataburger on Broadway in S.A. TX and his camera has "fallen off," when he conveniently says he sees a kid driving erratically. AND SHOOTS HIM TO DEATH.

It is SO convenient that those defending this guy just see that scene in the parking lot and imagine this was all that happened. In a parking lot, where he lived. He'd gotten home okay. Till he was shot five times.

We also know that student was celebrating the end of a semester, and there is a witness who says they went to bars. So why do you think he couldn't have actually driven erratically? Even if the student got home o'key, this cop doesn't know if the students decides to go somewhere again. I feel that it's cop's job to stop this from happening.

 

[LambChop]

Carter declined treatment for any "injuries." We don't even know who saw these. Another police department's word is all we have about any of this. Was he seen by a medical professional? Was this officially documented?

Of course it was documented. It's a police investigation. And if Carter was justified and it's proven he felt threatened it's justifiable homicide and would not be considered murder. jmo

 

[wfgodot]

We also know that student was "celebrating" the end of a semester, and there is a witness who says they went bar hopping that night. So why do you think he couldn't have actually driven erratically?

Is this witness under oath in a court of law or is this witness someone quoted in a newspaper account? If the latter it is a published rumor.

I have no qualms believing the first half of the story, as anyone knows who can read up. Yes, Mr. Redus may have had some drinks. But that does not justify him being shot to death because some cop has no idea how to handle the end result of following him for a mile and a half without somehow managing to summon help along the way from officers in the two jurisdictions each of them passed through - San Antonio and Alamo Heights.

 

[wfgodot]

Of course it was documented. It's a police investigation. And if Carter was justified and it's proven he felt threatened it's justifiable homicide and would not be considered murder. jmo

Why do you believe this? Because this is handed to us by "authority"? Where is due process in this? This is a newspaper account of words given by fellow cops. Where is the defense of the dead young man in this? Where is the voice of the victim?

<modsnip>

 

[jjenny]

Is this witness under oath in a court of law or is this witness someone quoted in a newspaper account? If the latter it is a published rumor.

I have no qualms believing the first half of the story, as anyone knows who can read up. Yes, Mr. Redus may have had some drinks. But that does not justify him being shot to death because some cop has no idea how to handle the end result of following him for a mile and a half without somehow managing to summon help along the way from officers in the two jurisdictions each of them passed through - San Antonio and Alamo Heights.

Well I guess we are all discussing published rumors then.
On every thread.
Since most of our info comes from what is published in msm.
Including the witness who claims he didn't hear any commands-published rumor as well. But yet you seem to find that one credible.

 

[LambChop]

Is this witness under oath in a court of law or is this witness someone quoted in a newspaper account? If the latter it is a published rumor.

I have no qualms believing the first half of the story, as anyone knows who can read up. Yes, Mr. Redus may have had some drinks. But that does not justify him being shot to death because some cop has no idea how to handle the end result of following him for a mile and a half without somehow managing to summon help along the way from officers in the two jurisdictions each of them passed through - San Antonio and Alamo Heights.

I believe that is what is normal police procedures when a drunk driver refuses to stop until they can get backup. jmo

 

[Reader]

Well, we've heard there is no video. How convenient. And we've heard, "this is the audio that took place right then." Quite frankly all is in question, in my mind.

Would there be someway to tell if the tape has been altered?