TX - Chad Read 54, shot/killed by ex's bf, Kyle Carruth, in custody dispute, Lubbock, 5 Nov 2021

[Seattle1]

Seems the point we disagree on is where the provocation occurred. You appear to think coming out with the gun was provocation. I'm inclined to believe that's probably not the case. To me, Kyle firing a warning shot was the provocative behavior that killed his self defense claim. At that point he's unlawfully, or at least unreasonably, used deadly force and therefore lost his status as an innocent victim.

^^rsbm

No, no, no! That is not what I think. IMO, the gun had nothing to do with provoking the victim. It was the joint action of the shooter and mother not providing the child or the whereabouts that provoked the victim. That was his only purpose for being on the property. MOO

 

[Argonaut]

The behavior of the deceased is what led to the shooting, whether justified or not.

You can't behave like that on someone else's doorstep.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The behavior of the deceased is what led to the shooting, whether justified or not.

You can't behave like that on someone else's doorstep.

I watched the video. I have no idea what you mean. What was he behaving like that could be used as an excuse for killing him?

 

[Argonaut]

I watched the video. I have no idea what you mean. What was he behaving like that could be used as an excuse for killing him?

In the video I saw he was in a state of rage and grabbed the gun. Supposedly he had been asked to leave several times. One of these two guys do not belong on the property.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

In the video I saw he was in a state of rage and grabbed the gun.

Chad did make a gesture with his hand while he and KC were chest bumping that could have been perceived as an attempt to grab Kyle's gun, especially since it was right after he threatened to take the gun and use it on KC. As I said before, imo if Kyle had shot Chad at that moment instead of firing into the porch, he might have had a stronger self defense case. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Argonaut]

Chad did make a gesture with his hand while he and KC were chest bumping that could have been perceived as an attempt to grab Kyle's gun, especially since it was right after he threatened to take the gun and use it on KC. As I said before, imo if Kyle had shot Chad at that moment instead of firing into the porch, he might have had a stronger self defense case. Again, just my opinion.

It's not a gesture. It's a grab. He also has his arm around the property owner at the time.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

It's not a gesture. It's a grab. He also has his arm around the property owner at the time.

View attachment 338851

No. I'm not talking about that moment. What I'm referring to happened moments before Chad threw Kyle off the porch. Skip to about 1:50 in this video

It's fairly obvious to viewers that Chad seems to simply be trying to nudge the gun away from himself, but look at Kyle's face. He's looking up at Chad's face and therefore probably couldn't see what Chad was doing with his hands. He probably felt the gun being moved by Chad and inferred he was trying to grab it. Keep in mind I'm not saying that's what I think happened but rather how I would look at this from the perspective of a hypothetical defense attorney.

The problem Kyle has here is that he didn't shoot Chad. He shot into the porch, which was both stupid and quite possibly legally unsound for reasons I've given in earlier posts.

 

[Cryptic]

What if?
-Kc and ex wife did not live together.
- The kid was not required to be at that location at that time.
- That the deceased was there to pick up the kid, against the terms of the custody order
- That KC knew the deceased was there (because he's a jerk)
- Chad was playing games with the ex-wife ("I know the kid is not supposed to be here, but I'm just mad my ex is in a relationship with someone who used to be my friend")

Then I would not support charges against the shooter.

 

[JayLee#99]

As a family law paralegal, this is a nightmare case. This is what we worry about on a daily basis. I do think Kyle should face charges. In fact, I even see a case for premeditated murder. The law had ordered the children to be picked up at that time and they choose not to have the child at the pickup location knowing this was going to cause an issue. I do believe they knowingly provoked Chad. I say “they” because I think Jennifer is just as culpable as Kyle.

 

[vls12345]

Texas man who shot dead his girlfriend's ex-husband won't face criminal charges | Daily Mail Online

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It's not a gesture. It's a grab. He also has his arm around the property owner at the time.

View attachment 338851

When someone is pointing a gun at you, trying to get that gun away doesn't justify killing them. MOO

 

[Argonaut]

When someone is pointing a gun at you, trying to get that gun away doesn't justify killing them. MOO

This was a justified shooting. That's why no charges.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I live here in Texas, so none of this is surprising to me.

@worm - in Texas you are not likely to find a DA who isn't "pro gun," at all much less in a more rural area.
@BeginnerSleuther ,
@Seattle1 ,
@TrustedTracker5097 , and anyone else who might be baffled by why the grand jury declined to indict
- under Texas's Castle Doctrine law: The person defending themselves has no duty to retreat if they had a right to be in the location, did not provoke the person they used deadly force against, and was not engaged in criminal activity. Also, the judge or jury cannot consider whether an actor failed to retreat when determining whether the actor reasonably believed force was necessary.
MOO - My neighbors hold their guns and the right to use them to protect themselves or even their property close to their hearts and are more likely to side with Carruth. "Don't mess with Texas," didn't start off as a media campaign against litter.
Edited to add - this is by no means MY philosophy - just what I see all around me.

I live here in Texas, so none of this is surprising to me.

@worm - in Texas you are not likely to find a DA who isn't "pro gun," at all much less in a more rural area.
@BeginnerSleuther ,
@Seattle1 ,
@TrustedTracker5097 , and anyone else who might be baffled by why the grand jury declined to indict
- under Texas's Castle Doctrine law: The person defending themselves has no duty to retreat if they had a right to be in the location, did not provoke the person they used deadly force against, and was not engaged in criminal activity. Also, the judge or jury cannot consider whether an actor failed to retreat when determining whether the actor reasonably believed force was necessary.
MOO - My neighbors hold their guns and the right to use them to protect themselves or even their property close to their hearts and are more likely to side with Carruth. "Don't mess with Texas," didn't start off as a media campaign against litter.
Edited to add - this is by no means MY philosophy - just what I see all around me.

But Carruth did provoke Read, by going inside, coming out with a gun and firing a warning shot. He was not in fear for his life or his loved ones or his property. This was all about ego to him. Little man syndrome. But he’s the one who has to live with himself.
He shot and killed an unarmed man, a father of four, when he didn’t have to. I wonder how he feels looking into the eyes of Chad’s sons, who now have to live with him and their Mom.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

As a family law paralegal, this is a nightmare case. This is what we worry about on a daily basis. I do think Kyle should face charges. In fact, I even see a case for premeditated murder. The law had ordered the children to be picked up at that time and they choose not to have the child at the pickup location knowing this was going to cause an issue. I do believe they knowingly provoked Chad. I say “they” because I think Jennifer is just as culpable as Kyle.

I couldn’t agree with you more. Videotaping the visit? It was a set up, imo.