• #1,221
And this is shooting and running of Liz’s killer from Crime Junkies. It is the very beginning.


There is something similar in the running. I feel that both killers show good flexibility.

So, it could be a trained professional, or a gangster hitman, or simply a person who has physical ability to be trained and become one.
rsbm

For anyone planning to watch Crime Junkies video, please know that Liz's screams and the gunshots can be heard in the beginning of the video and also, at around the 7 min mark. I havent gotten any further than that so there may be more.

Too bad, the content creators didnt let their audience know beforehand about Liz's heartbreaking screams and the horribly loud gunshot sounds. A warning would have been the right thing to do.
 
  • #1,222
It's upsetting and I turned it off. Not interested.

I've seen it one two many times and it's part of the case, but I always had the option to turn the volume down. I wasnt given that option this time.
 
  • #1,223
It's upsetting and I turned it off. Not interested.

I've seen it one two many times and it's part of the case, but I always had the option to turn the volume down. I wasnt given that option this time.
It's terrible, very sad that this case is still cold, but there's hope.

IIRC, we were spending a lot of time trying to decipher what the killer said and what kind of voice he/she had. IIRC, Gray Hughes did some adjustment of the audio. There was another podcast guy who cleaned it up even more. Does the Crime Junkies video have anything new?
 
  • #1,224
If we consider the theory of a carefully planned crime, then it turns out that:
- The killer(-s) first conducted reconnaissance at night
- They waited patiently in the parking lot of Goddard School
- They knew that Liz would be at the garage sale that day (the video shows the killer purposefully approaching Liz)
- They knew when Sergio would leave and immediately drove to Liz's house afterward
- They knew the police would track the license plate and the car through cameras, so they made sure the car wasn't found (and it was never found).
- They knew the gun could be tracked, so they used a revolver (a gun that doesn't leave shell casings).
- They used disguise (at least in the video, the killer's hair looks like a wig).
-The killers didn't take smartphones or other devices that could be used to track them to the scene.

I don't completely rule out other theories, but for now we need to follow this logic and if we rule out luck, then this murder was well-prepared and planned by someone who knows how crimes are investigated and has either experience investigating them or experience committing them.

That is, it was either a current police officer, a former one, perhaps a military officer, or a professional criminal, a professional killer.

But this version is very at odds with the victim's profile—a simple, cheerful, and kind person, not involved in serious affairs or serious crime.

And this is a very serious problem. How then should we look at this crime? Was it simply a fortunate coincidence for the killers? More likely no than yes. There are too many coincidences and too much luck involved. This means we don't know something about the victim, and at the same time, this leads to some kind of conspiracy theory, but the facts also can't be ignored.

And here I have no answer for how to proceed.
Really great post, and I agree with everything you say. Not for a second do I believe this was a random, spontaneous crime.

LE may have a strong suspect in mind, but simply not have enough evidence to prosecute. Whoever it was really did cover their tracks well!
 
  • #1,225
Really great post, and I agree with everything you say. Not for a second do I believe this was a random, spontaneous crime.

LE may have a strong suspect in mind, but simply not have enough evidence to prosecute. Whoever it was really did cover their tracks well!
Yeah. It's so devastating that there might not be a resolution before her dad passes. 💔 😭 Her dad's dying wish is for this to be solved. But frustratingly the perp seems to have covered their tracks well.

I can't believe people like this live amongst us. Murdered an innocent woman in cold blood. And making her family suffer all these years with no resolution. It's maddening.
 
  • #1,226
A hitman, who from hit to hit is changing his look, from optics of a male to female and back, with appropriate clothing and changing wigs and/or even masks. Maybe, it has nothing to do with 501. MOO

ETA: What, if it is the person in SWAT gear in the Missy Bevers case (2016 Midlothian)?

You may be right in that initially, the person looks like a broad-shouldered, broad-chested woman who calmly approaches Liz, talks to her, artfully engages her attention by showing her some object or a phone or a paper, thus distracting Liz from own movements. It does look professional to me. After the shooting, the same person runs very fast and quite steadily to the car.

The rest doesn’t look that professional as the killer or their partner is not a good driver or perhaps, isn’t born with good 3-d orientation. Alternative version: the killer is a good driver but is merely driving a very different car this day and it inconveniences him.

Now, thinking of “a woman or a man”. Perhaps we “feel” it is a woman because of long hair. But what if they are locs, for example? If well taken care of, they might look like it on a video. Or, it can be a wig, but as a cosplayer, Liz might be used to people wearing odd clothes, right?

Now, hope that whatever the Nest auditory recording contained, it could be enough to hear the dialect (hopefully), not only the voice tone.

Something about the resemblance of this killer to Cashman. Cashman is a gangster delegated to kill his gang’s rival. Once he took this job, he is “locked in action”. The man is so hyperfocused that he ends up killing a child (ruining a lot of lives around him, including his own), but it is almost inevitable: he is a hitman. Once he accepted the job, he is unstoppable.

I get the same flair here.
 
  • #1,227
rsbm

For anyone planning to watch Crime Junkies video, please know that Liz's screams and the gunshots can be heard in the beginning of the video and also, at around the 7 min mark. I havent gotten any further than that so there may be more.

Too bad, the content creators didnt let their audience know beforehand about Liz's heartbreaking screams and the horribly loud gunshot sounds. A warning would have been the right thing to do.

Yes, sorry for not alerting for it. I used the video because the “running to the car” part is in the very beginning. I couldn’t find isolated video showing just the running, and this is where I got the “Cashman” feeling from.
 
  • #1,228
It's terrible, very sad that this case is still cold, but there's hope.

IIRC, we were spending a lot of time trying to decipher what the killer said and what kind of voice he/she had. IIRC, Gray Hughes did some adjustment of the audio. There was another podcast guy who cleaned it up even more. Does the Crime Junkies video have anything new?

I don’t remember.

I could not find isolated video with the killer running, so I had to use the one where it is at the beginning.

Gray Hughes has very long videos and, IMO, he contributed into the overall messiness of the Delphi case. I respect his thinking and logic, but I took a break off his videos. My opinion only.
 
  • #1,229
It's terrible, very sad that this case is still cold, but there's hope.

IIRC, we were spending a lot of time trying to decipher what the killer said and what kind of voice he/she had. IIRC, Gray Hughes did some adjustment of the audio. There was another podcast guy who cleaned it up even more. Does the Crime Junkies video have anything new?
Yes, there is always hope!

I didnt continue on with Crime Junkies after the 7+ min mark.

I dont watch GH, and maybe youre speaking about Arrin Stoner.
 
  • #1,230
Yes, sorry for not alerting for it. I used the video because the “running to the car” part is in the very beginning. I couldn’t find isolated video showing just the running, and this is where I got the “Cashman” feeling from.
Understood. Not your fault. Sorry, if you misunderstood me, my post wasnt directed at you. ;)
 
  • #1,231
It’s good to see some renewed discussion around this case. Keeping attention on it is important.

We all know the truck seen on surveillance video (black or very dark colored Nissan Frontier Pro-4X) has never been identified, and it still feels like one of the most critical pieces of the puzzle to me. For a vehicle that distinctive to seemingly disappear without a trace is hard to ignore.

Does anyone here have any ideas that could help move the search for that truck forward? New tools or approaches—maybe even AI?
 
  • #1,232
Yeah, the vehicle is the most frustrating part. I don’t know how we’d even move forward on it. My ultimate feeling is that someone knows who did it and who the vehicle belongs to but they’re keeping that info to themselves. 🫠

My hope is that LE looked into all her known associates or acquaintances and theorized about who may have had a vehicle like that, or who may have had access to one (worked at car dealership?), but I know that would’ve been a lot of leg work. And they could’ve easily borrowed it from an unaware family member. But you’d hope if someone knew of Liz and was also aware of a truck like that belonging or related to someone close to her, they’d share that info… but no one has, as far as we know. 🥲
 
  • #1,233
If we consider the theory of a carefully planned crime, then it turns out that:
- The killer(-s) first conducted reconnaissance at night
- They waited patiently in the parking lot of Goddard School
- They knew that Liz would be at the garage sale that day (the video shows the killer purposefully approaching Liz)
- They knew when Sergio would leave and immediately drove to Liz's house afterward
- They knew the police would track the license plate and the car through cameras, so they made sure the car wasn't found (and it was never found).
- They knew the gun could be tracked, so they used a revolver (a gun that doesn't leave shell casings).
- They used disguise (at least in the video, the killer's hair looks like a wig).
-The killers didn't take smartphones or other devices that could be used to track them to the scene.

I don't completely rule out other theories, but for now we need to follow this logic and if we rule out luck, then this murder was well-prepared and planned by someone who knows how crimes are investigated and has either experience investigating them or experience committing them.

That is, it was either a current police officer, a former one, perhaps a military officer, or a professional criminal, a professional killer.

But this version is very at odds with the victim's profile—a simple, cheerful, and kind person, not involved in serious affairs or serious crime.

And this is a very serious problem. How then should we look at this crime? Was it simply a fortunate coincidence for the killers? More likely no than yes. There are too many coincidences and too much luck involved. This means we don't know something about the victim, and at the same time, this leads to some kind of conspiracy theory, but the facts also can't be ignored.

And here I have no answer for how to proceed.

About the end of your post.

It intuitively feels to me that Liz's killer is a professional hitman and the car is either not his or he got rid of it.

What group does he belong to? A cop, a military or a gangster? Who knows, some type of a pro.

The fact that he is a pro doesn’t imply that Liz was, nor that she was running in such circles.

To me it just shows that she somehow crossed paths with either a pro or someone around her who was able to contract a pro for the job.

And “the right pro” at this! Remember the Markel murder? Charlie Adelson had bad ideas but was not running in the proper circles himself. So his plan, to hire an assassin "known to his assistant" was that of a layman. JMO - whoever ordered Liz’s killing direct connections with the “hitmen”. Alternatively, the person could have set Liz up by asking her to sell something that dragged the “pros” attention.

In fact, the way Liz behaves during this moment, is indicative of her "not being a pro in any way”. Remember how her mom described Liz as “aware”? She likely was, the way organized people are. However, on the video, she doesn’t seem to have the instincts of a criminal. Even if she didn't like the person in front of her, but she did not run into the garage or to Nest. She just politely greeted the person.

The instincts of the people who are “aware the criminal way” are very different. On the videos of Olivia Pratt-Korbel’s murder case I watched, both the hitman (Cashman) and another gangster "target" (Nee) have very fast reactions. They seem to take in a lot of "horizon" around them, and respond to any avenues of safety that might open. This is why the case eventually got so tragic: criminals have very different reaction time compared to innocent civilians.

IMO there are many signs that would put Liz into the group of “innocent civilians”. That she could inadvertently be set up is another issue.

It’s good to see some renewed discussion around this case. Keeping attention on it is important.

We all know the truck seen on surveillance video (black or very dark colored Nissan Frontier Pro-4X) has never been identified, and it still feels like one of the most critical pieces of the puzzle to me. For a vehicle that distinctive to seemingly disappear without a trace is hard to ignore.

Does anyone here have any ideas that could help move the search for that truck forward? New tools or approaches—maybe even AI?

I suspect that by now the car has become a red herring. JMO. Using AI to answer a list of questions, random shooting or not, was the killer male or female, etc., and then run all the answers through AI again to get idas might be interesting.
 
  • #1,234
Yeah, the vehicle is the most frustrating part. I don’t know how we’d even move forward on it. My ultimate feeling is that someone knows who did it and who the vehicle belongs to but they’re keeping that info to themselves. 🫠

My hope is that LE looked into all her known associates or acquaintances and theorized about who may have had a vehicle like that, or who may have had access to one (worked at car dealership?), but I know that would’ve been a lot of leg work. And they could’ve easily borrowed it from an unaware family member. But you’d hope if someone knew of Liz and was also aware of a truck like that belonging or related to someone close to her, they’d share that info… but no one has, as far as we know. 🥲

Bbm

Trying to identify the truck would have been a lot of leg work—checking all videos from every street in a large radius, dealerships, rental companies, etc.—but IMO, it was the best lead they had.

Much energy and manpower should have been spent (maybe was?) on tracking that vehicle.

Hard to figure out a who (especially if disguised) and why if there’s no path to follow.
 
  • #1,235
Bbm

Trying to identify the truck would have been a lot of leg work—checking all videos from every street in a large radius, dealerships, rental companies, etc.—but IMO, it was the best lead they had.

Much energy and manpower should have been spent (maybe was?) on tracking that vehicle.

Hard to figure out a who (especially if disguised) and why if there’s no path to follow.
Yeah. I wish we could have more info on how exactly they tried to find it. :( It was really the best lead.

I know people in this thread have discussed that there was a Frontier that was pulled over during the initial BOLO, but they let it go, and maybe some of the owner’s behavior was suspicious? I wish we could know more about that.
 
  • #1,236
Yes, there is always hope!

I didnt continue on with Crime Junkies after the 7+ min mark.

I dont watch GH, and maybe youre speaking about Arrin Stoner.
Yes, Arrin Stoner is the name of the guy who cleaned up the audio of their doorbell cam video. Thanks for that. He did a fairly good job of it.

I’ll have to find it and listen again.
 

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