TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Adalena935]

Sorry, I must politely disagree with you. She knew what she was doing was wrong legally for the children's lives here on earth. She believed what she was doing was morally right to save their souls for eternity.

I never thought the babies souls were in jeopardy before any higher power either.

 

[Texana]

Her crimes were so awful.
My sympathies are with the victims and I do not consider her a victim.

Maybe the best we can hope for is that we each might stand before a higher power one day and give an accounting of ourselves. If that's the case, then I welcome that day with relish.

I do not think we should overlook the victims or for one second forget that these were defenseless children who died a horrible death. I could not sleep for the first week after this happened. However, at the same time, I think recognizing mental illness as the physical illness it is is imperative.

We do not expect cancer patients to run marathons or perform arduous physical tasks, yet we routinely question mentally ill people as to the degree of their illness and why they did not recognize when their medications were not working right, etc.

My husband was mildly depressed about fourteen years ago. I would never, never, never have left him alone with our child. Nor did I expect him to be the sole judge as to whether his medication was working properly. If he could judge that for himself, he wouldn't have needed the medicine.

Society must be protected from the violently mentally ill. Most if not all give hints of their condition before their violent act. Yet far too often, their families live in denial, and innocent people die. When we took away the ability to involuntarily commit most mentally ill people, we put all our children and citizens at risk.

When a college educated professional such as Russell Yates can regard the severe mental illness of his wife (and severe depression is a mental illness) as something as easily cured as a round of strep throat--with just a few pills--then we have to ask ourselves where we are failing. If you have a loved one on anti-depressants, you find out quickly that they are not a one-size-fits all. Each person's individual chemistry and genetics affects how they respond. Maybe the commercials make it sound so easy, but it is not just a matter of taking a pill or two to fix the problem.

I do not fear facing my God, but until that day, I think of the mentally ill and say, "there but for the grace of God go I."

 

[kk's mom]

Sorry, I must politely disagree with you. She knew what she was doing was wrong legally for the children's lives here on earth. She believed what she was doing was morally right to save their souls for eternity.

I don't even understand what that means. Morally right to save their souls, so that's why she killed them? I know that's not what you thought....you're saying that's what was going through her mind. But please. :doh: .............I have tried. I have really tried to muster us the littlest piece of sympathy for this woman but I just can't do it. I can't. The calculating and manipulative way that she thought out and planned to kill her 5 little children goes beyond what I can even comprehend. She waited until her husband left for work. She then waited until his mother left and then.....she started to kill them....one by one. She could not have been insane if SHE KNEW TO WAIT until their were no other adults in the home to stop her.

She knew to kill the oldest last because she knew he would fight the longest and the hardest. She knew to hold them down in the water longer than 3 minutes. 3 minutes!! Play that out in your mind how long those children fought. Stand by a clock and picture someone holding you down under water and get an idea of how long 3 minutes is.

She drowned them in each others vomit and fecal matter. And then when she was all done, she left the oldest child lying face down in all of it. Couldn't even put him on the bed with his brothers and his sister. Just leaves him lying in the filth. It completely sickens my stomach.

That is why I do not feel the least bit sorry for her. This is why I believe she needs to spend the rest of her life in prison and pay the price for what she did to those kids.

Just my own personal views on this whole rotten tragedy........

 

[michelle]

I don't even understand what that means. Morally right to save their souls, so that's why she killed them? I know that's not what you thought....you're saying that's what was going through her mind. But please. :doh: .............I have tried. I have really tried to muster us the littlest piece of sympathy for this woman but I just can't do it. I can't. The calculating and manipulative way that she thought out and planned to kill her 5 little children goes beyond what I can even comprehend. She waited until her husband left for work. She then waited until his mother left and then.....she started to kill them....one by one. She could not have been insane if SHE KNEW TO WAIT until their were no other adults in the home to stop her.

She knew to kill the oldest last because she knew he would fight the longest and the hardest. She knew to hold them down in the water longer than 3 minutes. 3 minutes!! Play that out in your mind how long those children fought. Stand by a clock and picture someone holding you down under water and get an idea of how long 3 minutes is.

She drowned them in each others vomit and fecal matter. And then when she was all done, she left the oldest child lying face down in all of it. Couldn't even put him on the bed with his brothers and his sister. Just leaves him lying in the filth. It completely sickens my stomach.

That is why I do not feel the least bit sorry for her. This is why I believe she needs to spend the rest of her life in prison and pay the price for what she did to those kids.

Just my own personal views on this whole rotten tragedy........

I agree with you, I think she is pure evil. I am sorry. I know people have "Mental Issues" But I dont think she is as crazy as she wants people to think. She in my mind knew what she was doing as well.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Hi Jeana

First encounter with jail psychiatrist:

Ferguson saw Yates again at 11:40 AM. "Mrs. Yates, how could this have happened?" the doctor asked.

Yates talked guardedly about a "prophecy" but couldn't explain what she meant.

"I'm so stupid," Yates wailed, hitting herself in the head with her fist. "Couldn't I have killed just one to fulfill the prophecy? Couldn't I have just offered Mary?"

"Mrs. Yates, could I tell you the truth about what's going on here?" Dr. Ferguson asked. "Your mind is playing tricks."

"No, it's not. I'm not mentally ill. It's real....The state will impose the death penalty on Satan....The drowning was the way,...Are they in heaven?"

Dr. Ferguson had treated more than six thousand patients since becoming a psychiatrist. When she saw Andrea Yates on June 21, 2001, "she was one of the sickest patients" she'd ever seen. To date, not a single doctor has disagreed with that characterization. Ferguson terminated the interview when Yates disintegrated into moaning and crying. She prescribed an additional dose of Ativan to calm her.


Houston Chronicle 6/29

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl...gs/4012569.html

Andrea Yates believed she was receiving messages from her children's cartoons and from at least two popular movies before she drowned her five children in June 2001, a psychiatrist testified today.

The former Clear Lake-area homemaker also believed she could hear Satan growling within the walls of the Harris County Jail, Dr. Melissa Ferguson said.

Jurors in Yates' capital murder trial listened closely this morning as Ferguson, the first psychiatrist to assess Yates in the jail's Mental Health and Mental Retardation unit, recounted their discussions. Ferguson was the jail's medical director of psychiatric services at the time.

She said she made her initial assessment of Yates on June 21, 2001, the day after Yates drowned her children in the bathtub at their home.

Ferguson said that, after their first meeting, she concluded that Yates "had major depressive disorder, severe, with psychotic features with onset in (her) postpartum period."

Yates told her that "she was hearing a message from the TV while the children were watching cartoons," Ferguson said.

"She said that the message had something to do with the children and herself. It was sometime in the weeks leading up to the drownings."

In addition to telling Yates that she was a bad mother, they delivered messages to the children, Yates told Ferguson.

She said she could hear the cartoons telling the youngsters, "Don't eat so much candy. Your mother is feeding you too much cereal."

Yates also told Ferguson that she had received messages from the movies The Matrix and O Brother, Where Art Thou?

She believed The Matrix had a "savior character" who spoke about "a sound of inevitability," Ferguson said.

When she asked Yates to explain, Ferguson said, "She told me it meant something, and she used the word 'ominous.'"

In O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Ferguson said, "There was what she characterized as a satanic character who told her 'You've eluded me long enough.'"

Ferguson said Yates also told her that she had heard growling noises from behind the walls of her jail cell.

"She said Satan was there," Ferguson testified.

She added: "It was indicative of the presence of delusions and the behavior of delusions."

I think she was crazy when she did this but I still believe she needs to be locked up for life where she can take her meds.

Her last Dr. took her off Haladol --an anti-psychotic two weeks prior to the killings...but left her on anti depressants. Some say this exacerbated her psychosis and delusions...

The doctor that took Andrea off of the Haldol should be shot. I blame him and Rusty for what happened. That doctor should have known better. If Andrea made the choice to take herself off of her meds...I've heard that too...the her husband should have been aware of that because of changes in her behavior. A lot of the time a mentally ill person will take their meds and feel so much better. Because they are feeling better they come to believe that they are better and don't need the meds. It just goes on and on.

Anyone who has listened to the doctors...especially the lady...that spent time with Andrea should come to realize that she is a very sick woman. The law should be "guilty BUT mentally ill.

I believe the people who are having a hard time believing that Andrea is very sick and was delusional when she murdered her children don't have any understanding about mental illness. If a person has ever worked with mentally ill people and studied mental illness they have no problem understanding this case. Like one doctor said in the Deanna Laney case...a delusional person can think...like calling 911 like both of these woman did. They didn't hide their children but believed they were following different voices. When both of these woman were arrested their affect was flat. They told what they had done with no emotion at all...like robots. Deanna Laney bashed her three boys heads in with big rocks but didn't kill the baby. He is blind and brain damaged now. A Texas jury aquitted Deanna Laney. She was sent to a mental hospital. Andrea Yates had a long history of mental illness...Deanna didn't...yet a Texas jury found her guilty and sent her to prison. Doesn't make sense to me. I hope this time they send Andrea to a mental hospital where she will remain for the rest of her life.

 

[LinasK]

I think AY was crazy and was let down in some ways by the health care /insurance system and her husband Rusty ....

I think RY did try and help his wife. But when the doctors advice
conflicted with his plans he ignored it. He wanted another child
even after a psych told him it WOULD bring on another bout of PPP. RY decided he would recognize the signs and start the meds and everything would be fine.

Another doc told him not to leave his wife alone --Dr. had just taken her of Haldol, an anti-psychotic. RY did get his mother to come help but for some reason he decided AY would be OK on her own for an hour every day. That was a huge gamble and one he lost big time.

The doctor that took Andrea off of the Haldol should be shot. I blame him and Rusty for what happened. That doctor should have known better.

I completely agree with both of you.:clap: I have worked with psych patients and demetia patients who were on Haldol. It is very strong stuff, she should never have been taken off it. Especially because-I read her last hospitalization records-and she had threated to harm herself in that period.

 

[TexMex]

That's not what her medical records show. You have the link. http//www.yateskids.org

I read the testimony from both trials. She'd been diagnosed with PPD, PPP and Schizophrenia. Her friends and family testified to her behavior. She was told to not have another child because it would bring on ANOTHER bout of PSYCHOSIS
You think she was faking? I don't think she should get off because she was sick.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The doctor that took Andrea off of the Haldol should be shot. I blame him and Rusty for what happened. That doctor should have known better. If Andrea made the choice to take herself off of her meds...I've heard that too...the her husband should have been aware of that because of changes in her behavior. A lot of the time a mentally ill person will take their meds and feel so much better. Because they are feeling better they come to believe that they are better and don't need the meds. It just goes on and on.

Anyone who has listened to the doctors...especially the lady...that spent time with Andrea should come to realize that she is a very sick woman. The law should be "guilty BUT mentally ill.

I believe the people who are having a hard time believing that Andrea is very sick and was delusional when she murdered her children don't have any understanding about mental illness. If a person has ever worked with mentally ill people and studied mental illness they have no problem understanding this case. Like one doctor said in the Deanna Laney case...a delusional person can think...like calling 911 like both of these woman did. They didn't hide their children but believed they were following different voices. When both of these woman were arrested their affect was flat. They told what they had done with no emotion at all...like robots. Deanna Laney bashed her three boys heads in with big rocks but didn't kill the baby. He is blind and brain damaged now. A Texas jury aquitted Deanna Laney. She was sent to a mental hospital. Andrea Yates had a long history of mental illness...Deanna didn't...yet a Texas jury found her guilty and sent her to prison. Doesn't make sense to me. I hope this time they send Andrea to a mental hospital where she will remain for the rest of her life.

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!

 

[kato]

I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut on this one because I have a very STRONG opinion that most (from the tone of this thread) would not agree with.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut on this one because I have a very STRONG opinion that most (from the tone of this thread) would not agree with.

Its odd that you would say that Kato. I see pretty strong arguments on both sides of this issue. . .

 

[Adalena935]

I believe the people who are having a hard time believing that Andrea is very sick and was delusional when she murdered her children don't have any understanding about mental illness. If a person has ever worked with mentally ill people and studied mental illness they have no problem understanding this case.

<snipped for space>

I don't believe you have the ability to know other people's minds because they happened to notice yates crimes in the news.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

<snipped for space>

I don't believe you have the ability to know other people's minds because they happened to notice yates crimes in the news.

I agree with her and I've never worked with the mentally ill. In fact, before the last few years and some personal experience I had with a friend, I never would have believed that someone could go from a normal, productive member of society with a high I.Q. and a professional, degreed career to not being able to leave the bedroom. The fact that hormones were involved over and over and over and over again in the Yates case would make it even more pronounced. I don't believe she was talking about anyone here, but the truth is when we read comments about this case, some people say that its not possible for someone to go from where she was to where she got and that's just not true.

 

[kk's mom]

The doctor that took Andrea off of the Haldol should be shot. I blame him and Rusty for what happened. That doctor should have known better. If Andrea made the choice to take herself off of her meds...I've heard that too...the her husband should have been aware of that because of changes in her behavior. A lot of the time a mentally ill person will take their meds and feel so much better. Because they are feeling better they come to believe that they are better and don't need the meds. It just goes on and on.

Anyone who has listened to the doctors...especially the lady...that spent time with Andrea should come to realize that she is a very sick woman. The law should be "guilty BUT mentally ill.

I believe the people who are having a hard time believing that Andrea is very sick and was delusional when she murdered her children don't have any understanding about mental illness. If a person has ever worked with mentally ill people and studied mental illness they have no problem understanding this case. Like one doctor said in the Deanna Laney case...a delusional person can think...like calling 911 like both of these woman did. They didn't hide their children but believed they were following different voices. When both of these woman were arrested their affect was flat. They told what they had done with no emotion at all...like robots. Deanna Laney bashed her three boys heads in with big rocks but didn't kill the baby. He is blind and brain damaged now. A Texas jury aquitted Deanna Laney. She was sent to a mental hospital. Andrea Yates had a long history of mental illness...Deanna didn't...yet a Texas jury found her guilty and sent her to prison. Doesn't make sense to me. I hope this time they send Andrea to a mental hospital where she will remain for the rest of her life.

Completely disagree with you on this one. I do know someone who is mentally ill. My sister. Right now, she's wandering the streets somewhere in Georgia, checking herself in and out of hospitals, saying she needs help, gets the help, gets on meds, and then goes off them med and then it's back to square one. We've tried for years to intervene and take her under our wings but she sometimes thinks nothing is wrong with her. The last time we heard anything from her was when she called my Dad, said "just wanted you to know I'm okay" and hung up. We couldn't trace the call or anything. So, do I understand mental illness? You bet I do. I could tell you stories that would make your toes curl. Very unfair for you to say that people who don't "understand" why Andrea did what she did don't understand mental illness.

What I don't get about Andrea Yates is the way she planned to murder her kids, when she did it and how she did it. That whole picture doesn't sit right with me. Someone who plans the who, when, why, and how doesn't seem to me to have time to be mentally ill...............

 

[kato]

Completely disagree with you on this one. I do know someone who is mentally ill. My sister. Right now, she's wandering the streets somewhere in Georgia, checking herself in and out of hospitals, saying she needs help, gets the help, gets on meds, and then goes off them med and then it's back to square one. We've tried for years to intervene and take her under our wings but she sometimes thinks nothing is wrong with her. The last time we heard anything from her was when she called my Dad, said "just wanted you to know I'm okay" and hung up. We couldn't trace the call or anything. So, do I understand mental illness? You bet I do. I could tell you stories that would make your toes curl. Very unfair for you to say that people who don't "understand" why Andrea did what she did don't understand mental illness.

What I don't get about Andrea Yates is the way she planned to murder her kids, when she did it and how she did it. That whole picture doesn't sit right with me. Someone who plans the who, when, why, and how doesn't seem to me to have time to be mentally ill...............

I agree with your last paragraph.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Completely disagree with you on this one. I do know someone who is mentally ill. My sister. Right now, she's wandering the streets somewhere in Georgia, checking herself in and out of hospitals, saying she needs help, gets the help, gets on meds, and then goes off them med and then it's back to square one. We've tried for years to intervene and take her under our wings but she sometimes thinks nothing is wrong with her. The last time we heard anything from her was when she called my Dad, said "just wanted you to know I'm okay" and hung up. We couldn't trace the call or anything. So, do I understand mental illness? You bet I do. I could tell you stories that would make your toes curl. Very unfair for you to say that people who don't "understand" why Andrea did what she did don't understand mental illness.

What I don't get about Andrea Yates is the way she planned to murder her kids, when she did it and how she did it. That whole picture doesn't sit right with me. Someone who plans the who, when, why, and how doesn't seem to me to have time to be mentally ill...............

Darlin, your paragraphs seem to have a split personality. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but I don't see how you could possibly say she didn't have time to be mentally ill. :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

 

[kato]

I still agree with the last paragraph. But seeing as how I work full-time I don't have time to be mentally ill either but I do. LOL Meds. come in very handy if one is inclined to take them as prescribed.

It's also nothing to be ashamed of either. In fact I think admitting it is being a stronger person. Now, one who is and doesn't seek or think they need help or the ones to watch out for. LOL If people don't like me how I am then just tough.

 

[txsvicki]

Gotcha....true a state run would be worse than jail IMO

She seems to be doing well in jail recently.....

Would she be placed in Big Spring state mental hospital or is there more of them here in Texas?

 

[kato]

Would she be placed in Big Spring state mental hospital or is there more of them here in Texas?

There's plenty more. Rusk maybe? I remember hearing horror stories about Austin State Hospital when I was young. It's a goner now.

 

[TexMex]

Would she be placed in Big Spring state mental hospital or is there more of them here in Texas?

She has been at the TDCJ Skyview Unit which is near Rusk
and Judge Belinda Hill granted her bond after her conviction was overturned on the condition that she remain at the Rusk State Hospital until trial. So if found NGBRI I think Rusk would be a possibility...

 

[Jeana (DP)]

She has been at the TDCJ Skyview Unit which is near Rusk
and Judge Belinda Hill granted her bond after her conviction was overturned on the condition that she remain at the Rusk State Hospital until trial. So if found NGBRI I think Rusk would be a possibility...

Even if she's found guilty again, she'll be returned to the same place she'd been. Not much is going to change except that there will be no hope of release ever.