TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Texana]

Jules, you bring up some good points.

However, I think Rusty had an engineer's mindset when it came to Andrea's mental illness. She took the meds before, got better. So it was just something that had to be dealt with and fixed, not something that would deter him from his goals. (and hers, since she seemed to go along with them.)

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't think so.....she will be reviewed periodically for suitability to be returned to society.

I dunno, call me a hardarse or old-fashioned, but I am really just not into people's excuses. I don't want to hear the excuse of the Katrina 'victim' that hasn't bettered herself one bit despite having free everything for over a year and now she wants to complain because the church is kicking her out of her free home. I don't want to hear the excuse as to why the drug dealer killed an innocent child during a drive by gone wrong. I don't want to hear the excuse why some guy beats his wife. AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANDREA YATES EXCUSES OF HOW SHE DROWN EACH OF HER KIDS IN A BATHTUB. I don't care why. Why has no bearing on what she did. There is no excuse. There is no reason. There is no logic.

She needs to be kept away from society forever. She did something so horrible that, regardless of the circumstances, she needs to be locked up somewhere forever. If it were my wife, they would need to lock her up to protect her from ME.

Cal

I know and pretty much agree with you. This is the first case where I've ever thought the defendant was insane. However, try to remember that here in Texas, the only thing harder than actually getting this type of verdict is trying to get out of the mental hospital. Whenever Yates stays on her medication long enough to think about what she's done, she becomes suicidal. That in and of itself, will make her ineligible to be considered for release. No Texas judge is going to let her "loose on society" so to speak. She'll be evaluated after 30 days and a report to the judge. The judge will then decide whether to continue to hold her. If he/she does, they'll reevaluate her again in six months and then every year after that.

 

[Jules]

Jules, you bring up some good points.

However, I think Rusty had an engineer's mindset when it came to Andrea's mental illness. She took the meds before, got better. So it was just something that had to be dealt with and fixed, not something that would deter him from his goals. (and hers, since she seemed to go along with them.)

Thanks. And thanks for all the updates today. :blowkiss:

I do believe that about Rusty, as well. The part I have a hard time with is the not showering/bathing, the not eating, and the not talking. How could he not realize she wasn't getting any better? That's what makes me wonder just how much time they really spent together. I mean every now and then on the weekends my hubby doesn't feel like showering if he's just laying around or puttering around the house. I tell him to get his nasty butt in the shower. How can you live with someone who hasn't showered for 3 weeks??? And how can you trust that person to care for your children? That would have had to have been a BIG red flag that things weren't right with her.

 

[calus_3]

I don't believe society needs to be protected from her. She has never shown any violence toward anyone other than (obviously) her kids and her self. I do believe she will be locked up for quite some time, however, I do believe there is a chance at some point that she will be well enough to live outside a treatment center.

:truce: :truce:

There was no reason to believe she was a danger to anyone, including her kids....oh, until she drown them in a TUB. So I think the burden is for the non-kid drowning citizens.

Cal

 

[calus_3]

My Mother was declared legally insane more than once in her life. In that mental state, a person's actions simply cannot be rationally accounted for or explained. That's why we commit them to mental institutions until they get better, which might be never.

Sorry about your mom.

I agree that she should be confined somewhere, regardless of the place. I don't think that she should be allowed back into society. Who says she won't kidnap someone else's child to make up for the loss of hers?

As long as she's confined, I don't care where it is.

Cal

 

[Jeana (DP)]

(see Jeana's aforementioned twinkie defense), which was made famous when Dan White went on trial for murdering San Fancisco's Mayor, George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milke in the late 70's (my recollection).

You couldn't order a better jury out of a catalog.

 

[Jules]

There was no reason to believe she was a danger to anyone, including her kids....oh, until she drown them in a TUB. So I think the burden is for the non-kid drowning citizens.

Cal

Cal, I understand what you're saying and I understand your frustration with this. What I'm trying to say is that in her mind she thought she was doing the right thing - for whatever reasons. She thought she was protecting them and sending them to heaven. She didn't randomly search out other peoples' kids to drown.

Hope this makes sense... I know what I'm trying to say, just having a hard time putting it into words.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

There was no reason to believe she was a danger to anyone, including her kids....oh, until she drown them in a TUB. So I think the burden is for the non-kid drowning citizens.

Cal

There WAS reason to believe that she was a danger to herself. Didn't she try and kill herself more than once? That's not someone you leave alone with give small children.

 

[Jules]

Didn't she try and kill herself more than once?

Yes, twice.

 

[Nore]

I don't think so.....she will be reviewed periodically for suitability to be returned to society.

I dunno, call me a hardarse or old-fashioned, but I am really just not into people's excuses. I don't want to hear the excuse of the Katrina 'victim' that hasn't bettered herself one bit despite having free everything for over a year and now she wants to complain because the church is kicking her out of her free home. I don't want to hear the excuse as to why the drug dealer killed an innocent child during a drive by gone wrong. I don't want to hear the excuse why some guy beats his wife. AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANDREA YATES EXCUSES OF HOW SHE DROWN EACH OF HER KIDS IN A BATHTUB. I don't care why. Why has no bearing on what she did. There is no excuse. There is no reason. There is no logic.

She needs to be kept away from society forever. She did something so horrible that, regardless of the circumstances, she needs to be locked up somewhere forever. If it were my wife, they would need to lock her up to protect her from ME.

Cal

-----------

Amen.

 

[calus_3]

Cal, I understand what you're saying and I understand your frustration with this. What I'm trying to say is that in her mind she thought she was doing the right thing - for whatever reasons. She thought she was protecting them and sending them to heaven. She didn't randomly search out other peoples' kids to drown.

Hope this makes sense... I know what I'm trying to say, just having a hard time putting it into words.

I understand am not busting your...well, you know what I mean!

If you buy her story, then perhaps. I don't buy her story. I think that she snapped because of something....perhaps the youngest pooped in the tub? I dunno.

Just keep her locked up and I am a happy man. Regardless of whether the mind gets better or not, the entity needs to stay locked up.

Cal

 

[Wudge]

You couldn't order a better jury out of a catalog.

I could, but they did very well today.

It makes no sense to think that you should punish an insane person. This jury saw the basics far clearer than the first jury did; I feel somewhat grateful for that.

 

[Jules]

I understand am not busting your...well, you know what I mean!

If you buy her story, then perhaps. I don't buy her story. I think that she snapped because of something....perhaps the youngest pooped in the tub? I dunno.

Just keep her locked up and I am a happy man. Regardless of whether the mind gets better or not, the entity needs to stay locked up.

Cal

Let me ask you this. Why do you feel she 'snapped because of something' when there are years of medical records relating to her mental illness?

 

[calus_3]

Let me ask you this. Why do you feel she 'snapped because of something' when there are years of medical records relating to her mental illness?

Well, I am not saying she was fit as a fiddle...

I just don't buy the whole thing. I could see something happening like a child pooping in the tub to be the trigger. I think there was SOMETHING that triggered that.

Cal

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I could, but they did very well today.

It makes no sense to think that you should punish an insane person. This jury saw the basics far clearer than the first jury did; I feel somewhat grateful for that.

I was talking about the twinkie jury, but this one was good too.

 

[kk's mom]

She will be.

I certainly hope so. I don't care where she goes as long as she never sees the light of day again.

I have not one ounce of sympathy for this woman. Not one. Not after what she did to her kids.

 

[Jules]

Well, I am not saying she was fit as a fiddle...

I just don't buy the whole thing. I could see something happening like a child pooping in the tub to be the trigger. I think there was SOMETHING that triggered that.

Cal

I think part of the SOMETHING was the fact she was taken of Haldol cold turkey. :twocents:

 

[calus_3]

I think part of the SOMETHING was the fact she was taken of Haldol cold turkey. :twocents:

Could be.....

I could be all wet and she may have been totally whacked out. However, I cannot step into the mind of a person who did something wrong to find these things out. It is unpleasant sometimes, but you have to do what is the best for society than what is best for that one person.

Cal

 

[Wudge]

I was talking about the twinkie jury, but this one was good too.

Ohhhh ...lol... No, I would not have agreed with the jury in the "twinkie" case. I'm not a bleeding heart who believes most everyone is a victim. It was an absurd defense.

Of course, today, a twinkie defense means an absurd defense. But White's defense team was able to sell the jurors on "diminished capacity" via a storyline wherein his recent excess consumption of twinkies and Coca-Cola allegedly evidenced an existing mental disorder. ... lolol

Nevertheless, a great sell job by his defense team. They succeded in having premeditation taken off the table in the minds of the jurors. He was convicted of manslaughter.

A few years after White's release from prison, he committed suicide. His lawyer (I forget his name) felt that vindicated him for his twinkie defense.

A final note of interest: After the verdict, California revised its statutory definition of premeditation and malice and returned to the common law definition.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ohhhh ...lol... No, I would not have agreed with the jury in the "twinkie" case. I'm not a bleeding heart who believes most everyone is a victim. It was an absurd defense.

Of course, today, a twinkie defense means an absurd defense. But White's defense team was able to sell the jurors on "diminished capacity" via a storyline wherein his recent excess consumption of twinkies and Coca-Cola allegedly evidenced an existing mental disorder. ... lolol

Nevertheless, a great sell job by his defense team. And they succeded in having premeditation taken off the table in the minds of the jurors. He was convicted of manslaughter.

A few years after White's release from prison, he committed suicide. His lawyer (I forget his name) felt that vindicated for his twinkie defense.

A final note of interest: After the verdict, California revised its statutory definition of premeditation and malice and returned to the common law definition.

The face of kids in law schools everywhere when that case is discussed: