TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Jeana (DP)]

But she is supposed to have regular appearances before a judge who will decide if she is sane enough to be released. I know she had to be out of her mind to kill her children in the way she did. But at the same time, as another poster said, if I realized the extent of my actions after being treated with meds (as she has), I would not even want to be free. I would prefer to die.
I don't know if I am OK with the idea of her not being in prison. If she is going to be in a mental hospital, then she darn well needs to be there for life with no possibility of parole. Ever. Throw her in the rubber room and flush the key away. In the religion I grew up in, we were supposed to just have as many babies as God allowed too. There were women who had as many as 15 kids because they had one a year. One man had 22 kids by 2 wives, both of whom died giving birth to their 11th child. In that religion (which I am no longer in) women were told that awful things would happen to them physically and to their children if they used birth control. I, too, have issues that will require medication probably for life. At the same time, I love my kids more than life itself. God help the person who tries to hurt them. After having my third baby, I knew that was all I could handle. Did I just continue popping babies out anyway, figuring it was God's will and He would help me deal with it? No. My husband wasn't about to be responsible so I went on birth control. Completely against the religion I was brought up in but the right decision for my kids and myself. I just don't get Andrea's willingness to continue to lie down and have more babies. She should have made the right choice for her kids above all else. And that includes her religion and Rusty's hoo hoo.

And therein lies the mental illness aspect. IF she was in her right mind, she might have done exactly what you did. She was not in her right mind however, and we see the consequences of that and of the pure selfish neglect of her husband and the father of those children. As the ONLY RESPONSIBLE ADULT living in that home, it FELL TO HIM to make sure that his family was taken care of. That's what a marriage is and that's what being a parent is. Its NOT sticking you head in the sand because you're tired of the problem or you just don't want to hear about it or you think it will take care of itself. If your parents become infirm, you take care of them. If your children get cancer or another disease, you take care of them. Why then is it okay to leave your wife with a disease so prevalent that she tried to kill herself twice, wasn't eating, bathing or taking care of five kids that she shouldn't have had in the first place and continue on with your daily life?

 

[NaNaRosebud]

If Rusty would have taken the kids and went to live somewhere else y'all would have said....Boo Hoo, look how mean he is being to his wife. Taking her kids away from her....he's so awful and terrible. Then some social worker would have come into the picture and made sure that ANdrea got time ALONE with the kids.

I am amazed that so many people are so for ANdrea on medication. ANd then these same people say how horrible it is for children to be on ritalin or some other med for ADD. They say it's only the teachers making the parents give the kids meds to be good in school.

Let's blame Rusty's mom too. AFter all, she was coming there everymorning to help ANdrea with the kids. Didn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk from not taking a bath and her hair was all matted??? How about the woman in the book store where ANdrea took the kids? Didn't SHE notice what horrible shape ANdrea was in? COuldn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk and her clothes were wrinkled and stained? They are all to blame. We are our brothers keeper you know!!!

I think we should go further in the blame game here. Let's blame Science and the drug companies and the FDA for not coming up, researching, or approving a treatment method for sufferers of mental illness that prevents them from having side effects so the ill will stay on their meds!!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If Rusty would have taken the kids and went to live somewhere else y'all would have said....Boo Hoo, look how mean he is being to his wife. Taking her kids away from her....he's so awful and terrible. Then some social worker would have come into the picture and made sure that ANdrea got time ALONE with the kids.

I am amazed that so many people are so for ANdrea on medication. ANd then these same people say how horrible it is for children to be on ritalin or some other med for ADD. They say it's only the teachers making the parents give the kids meds to be good in school.

Let's blame Rusty's mom too. AFter all, she was coming there everymorning to help ANdrea with the kids. Didn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk from not taking a bath and her hair was all matted??? How about the woman in the book store where ANdrea took the kids? Didn't SHE notice what horrible shape ANdrea was in? COuldn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk and her clothes were wrinkled and stained? They are all to blame. We are our brothers keeper you know!!!

I think we should go further in the blame game here. Let's blame Science and the drug companies and the FDA for not coming up, researching, or approving a treatment method for sufferers of mental illness that prevents them from having side effects so the ill will stay on their meds!!!

Darlin, I don't think you should be telling us what we'd be saying. I've said many, many times that any parent who is HEARING VOICES should NOT be in custody of children, ever. I think the children's rights should come FIRST.

 

[Jules]

They can try her if they want to-if she was insane for 3 of them she will be found insane for the rest..you cant be insane one minute and then when u get to the 4th child be sane again.

The DA charged her with the three she killed last - not the first two. Their reason for that was to charge her with the first two - the prosecution would have the burden of proving she was not insane while killing them. By charging her with the last three, the defense had the burden to show she was insane when she killed them - at least that is the way the legal analysts described it yesterday.

 

[Jules]

SHE should NEVER be let out of ANY place she goes to. If she is, I hope she finds the blast of a gun to her own head to relieve her own pain.

If she was truly sorry she killed her kids, she'd kill herself!

I hope she gets LOTS of MOther Day cards while she is in her cushy hospital!!

We're all entitled to our own opinions. Obviously ours differ drastically.

A state mental facility is certainly not a 'cushy' hospital.

 

[Jules]

If Rusty would have taken the kids and went to live somewhere else y'all would have said....Boo Hoo, look how mean he is being to his wife. Taking her kids away from her....he's so awful and terrible. Then some social worker would have come into the picture and made sure that ANdrea got time ALONE with the kids.

I am amazed that so many people are so for ANdrea on medication. ANd then these same people say how horrible it is for children to be on ritalin or some other med for ADD. They say it's only the teachers making the parents give the kids meds to be good in school.

Let's blame Rusty's mom too. AFter all, she was coming there everymorning to help ANdrea with the kids. Didn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk from not taking a bath and her hair was all matted??? How about the woman in the book store where ANdrea took the kids? Didn't SHE notice what horrible shape ANdrea was in? COuldn't SHE notice that ANdrea stunk and her clothes were wrinkled and stained? They are all to blame. We are our brothers keeper you know!!!

I think we should go further in the blame game here. Let's blame Science and the drug companies and the FDA for not coming up, researching, or approving a treatment method for sufferers of mental illness that prevents them from having side effects so the ill will stay on their meds!!!

You're absolutely right. There are MANY people to blame for Andrea's illness that should be held accountable. The doctors, her husband, her family - they all failed her at different times. There is NO way I would have let her walk around stinking with matted hair. I would have physically put her in the shower myself and scrubbed her and washed her hair. I also would NOT have left her alone - with or without the kids - after her suicide attempts. She was not a stable person then and most definitely got worse after the birth of her 5th child. They ALL should have taken an active roll in getting her the help she needed. Had they ALL done that - perhaps this tragedy could have been prevented.

 

[Texana]

The homeschooling bookstore employee testified that Andrea and the children always seemed perfectly normal when they came in. Nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. (that testimony was intended to emphasize the point that on meds and stable, Andrea was a completely different person.)

Meds cause weight gain because they affect the metabolism and hormones. Prescribing the right medications for mental health is particularly difficult because moods affect hormones, which alter physical chemistry. This is why therapy in addition to medication is so important, because the patient learns to handle emotions differently so that their moods don't contribute to worsening their condition. It can take anywhere from two weeks to two months for the human body to become regulated. All medications come with side effects but usually after about 2-3 months the effects lessen. Unfortunately, you will find doctors who "tweak" meds like they are aspirin and patients/families who don't fully understand the differences between the medications or even the chemical inbalances themselves.

Mental health care has come a long way since the days of electro-shock therapy and lobotomies. But if you think that doctors know all they need to know about how the brain functions...you have only to read recent news. We don't know why some people awaken from comas and others don't. Gene therapy for mental illness may be a better thing that medication. There's just a lot left to learn still.

There is a huge difference between severe depression and psychosis. Clinically depressed people do not hallucinate or hear voices. Psychotic people do.

Equating severe psychotic post-partum depression as something that can just be overcome with positive thoughts and moral character means more children will die. "She would never hurt the children" needs to be taken out of the equation.

 

[calus_3]

Something about this case strikes me as curiouser and curiouser every day.....especially with women.

Many women I have listened to say "I just can't imagine doing that to five of my kids without being stone cold insane....therefore, I buy the argument that she is crazy".

These people are discounting the fact that there are people out there that are mean, horrible, evil people. No one thought Scott Peterson was capable of murder until the facts came out. Just because you can't ever see yourself doing something like this, doesn't mean that other would not or could not.

Susan Smith is all you need to say.

I hope that this jury didn't have a bunch of these "I couldn't see myself doing it and still being sane, so she must have been crazy" people on it. Regardless, we have to live with the jury's verdict.

Cal

 

[kato]

Something about this case strikes me as curiouser and curiouser every day.....especially with women.

Many women I have listened to say "I just can't imagine doing that to five of my kids without being stone cold insane....therefore, I buy the argument that she is crazy".

These people are discounting the fact that there are people out there that are mean, horrible, evil people. No one thought Scott Peterson was capable of murder until the facts came out. Just because you can't ever see yourself doing something like this, doesn't mean that other would not or could not.

Susan Smith is all you need to say.

I hope that this jury didn't have a bunch of these "I couldn't see myself doing it and still being sane, so she must have been crazy" people on it. Regardless, we have to live with the jury's verdict.

Cal

I think SS was just plain old evil and selfish cuz she wanted a man who didn't want children or for that matter he probably didn't want her anymore either.

 

[Jules]

I think SS was just plain old evil and selfish cuz she wanted a man who didn't want children or for that matter he probably didn't want her anymore either.

He didn't. That's why she killed her boys. He wrote her a letter and told her it was over - one of the reasons being that she had kids.

So very sad....

I think the thing that is different with Andrea is that she had the medical records to support years of mental illness and an insanity defense. Susan Smith did not. Had Andrea not had years of documented mental illness, I can assure you many of us here would have different views on this case.

 

[PaperDoll]

In this type of case, they hold back something they can bring the defendant to trial a second time if the first one doesn't go their way. That's why I was worried the prosecutor may try her again a third time. Its ridiculous in my opinion.

thanks Jeana. makes sense :blowkiss:

 

[ember]

Ok, I can't quite get this....wouldn't you have to be INSANE to murder someone in the first place?????:banghead: So, that makes it OK? HUH?!!!

This woman killed her kids in cold blood....she even chased one down and drug him back in! She KNEW what she was doing! IT IS MURDER.

BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS!

Damned liberals keep blurring the lines....

Boy, were her lawyers right when they said what a difference five years makes! Yeah, because now EVERYONE is on some kind of med for mental health...PROZAC NATION! What a horrible existence it must be when you have to take a pill everyday to make your life happy. People need to count their blessings and DEAL with the bad chit, not use it as a crutch to be miserable or insane! GET OVER IT.

I totally expect to see alot more of this in the future...woman tired of her kids....kill them...claim insanity...get out of the nut house on good behavior in few years...live on....but NOT the kids, they were disposable because she was insane! :banghead: Good grief!

Sorry to rant! This stuff just really irks me. She is guilty, guilty, guilty and now, on our dime, she is fat,fat,fat and her kids are dead,dead,dead.
This weakness offends me.

 

[calus_3]

I think SS was just plain old evil and selfish cuz she wanted a man who didn't want children or for that matter he probably didn't want her anymore either.

Correct, but it just shows that someone motivated by SOMETHING (a man, sympathy as the parent, freedom, etc.) certainly can act to kill their children absent any psychosis.

She may very well have been looney as a jaybird on that day, I dunno.

I was merely addressing the feeling by many moms that "I couldn't do it, so she couldn't have been in her right mind and did it either".

Cal

 

[kato]

Correct, but it just shows that someone motivated by SOMETHING (a man, sympathy as the parent, freedom, etc.) certainly can act to kill their children absent any psychosis.

She may very well have been looney as a jaybird on that day, I dunno.

I was merely addressing the feeling by many moms that "I couldn't do it, so she couldn't have been in her right mind and did it either".

Cal

Exactly she wasn't psychotic.

 

[calus_3]

Ok, I can't quite get this....wouldn't you have to be INSANE to murder someone in the first place?????

Oh absolutely not....

A fit of homicidal rage
Jealousy
A spouse caught cheating
Desire to be free of the spouse
Financial benefit

There are lots of reasons.

Cal

 

[Jules]

Exactly she wasn't psychotic.

Kato, I think this is the first thing we have ever disagreed on. :blowkiss:

 

[kato]

Kato, I think this is the first thing we have ever disagreed on. :blowkiss:

Jules ,not Andrea. Susan was not psychotic.

 

[Jules]

Jules ,not Andrea. Susan was not psychotic.

Opps, my mistake. :blushing: :innocent: :innocent:

:slap:

 

[ember]

Oh absolutely not....

A fit of homicidal rage
Jealousy
A spouse caught cheating
Desire to be free of the spouse
Financial benefit

There are lots of reasons.

Cal

reasons, yes, that CAN drive you to insanity. Normal people don't kill anyone. All of those things you mentioned can make you go insane....or not....it actually depends on the person's coping ability. I have been in ALL of those situations at one time or another....didn't kill anyone!

My point is that I think that defense is BS...she is guilty...that kind of person just needs to be eliminated from the human race. They serve no purpose and are a cancer to the rest of the decent, civilized society.

 

[kato]

Opps, my mistake. :blushing: :innocent: :innocent:

:slap:

I knew we got crossed. Sometimes I guess I'm not specific enough.