TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[lorann]

In this type of case, they hold back something they can bring the defendant to trial a second time if the first one doesn't go their way. That's why I was worried the prosecutor may try her again a third time. Its ridiculous in my opinion.

Perhaps I heard wrong yesterday - I thought I heard she has been declared insane - in order to charge her with the other deaths, they have to prove her sane.

I agree with this jury, this poor lady and her children were ignored by so many in their lives. Although we have just about everything you can imagine in our family (LOL) we have never had to face illness such as this. Until I personally got to know a young gal who suffered from clinical depression, I thought Oh, get over it... I doubt that Andrea will ever be totally released to the public but with good meds, I hope she can live in a facility that continues to make her life a better one than the one she escaped from. And I hope that Rusty eventually accepts the role he played in her downfall.

 

[calus_3]

reasons, yes, that CAN drive you to insanity. Normal people don't kill anyone. All of those things you mentioned can make you go insane....or not....it actually depends on the persons coping ability. I have been in ALL of those situations at one time or another....didn't kill anyone!

My point is I think that defense is BS...she is guilty...that kind of person just needs to be eliminated from the human race. They serve no purpose and are a cancer to the rest of the decent, civilized society.

Whether she was insane or not, I agree. If she is that insane that she can do that, she should die. If not, she should die five times, one for each of her victims.

But I disagree that people can kill for a variety of reasons absent psychosis. A child rapist who kills to avoid prison isn't necessarily insane.

Cal

 

[Jeana (DP)]

reasons, yes, that CAN drive you to insanity. Normal people don't kill anyone. All of those things you mentioned can make you go insane....or not....it actually depends on the persons coping ability. I have been in ALL of those situations at one time or another....didn't kill anyone!

My point is I think that defense is BS...she is guilty...that kind of person just needs to be eliminated from the human race. They serve no purpose and are a cancer to the rest of the decent, civilized society.

She wasn't driven insane by anyone. When a woman becomes pregnant, her hormones change. Andrea's body composition was such that pregnancy made her hormones rage in a way that she could not deal with. That's why her doctors recommended that she not have any more children. Her husband and her minister decided that God didn't want her to stop having children, so they disregarded medical advice and continued to have child after child after child after child after child until her body was a wreck. Now, as we've all said before, a NORMAL person would put the breaks on and say to hell with all that, I'm done having children. That gives us some clue that Yates was NOT normal and was in no condiition to be making any decision for herself.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Perhaps I heard wrong yesterday - I thought I heard she has been declared insane - in order to charge her with the other deaths, they have to prove her sane.

I agree with this jury, this poor lady and her children were ignored by so many in their lives. Although we have just about everything you can imagine in our family (LOL) we have never had to face illness such as this. Until I personally got to know a young gal who suffered from clinical depression, I thought Oh, get over it... I doubt that Andrea will ever be totally released to the public but with good meds, I hope she can live in a facility that continues to make her life a better one than the one she escaped from. And I hope that Rusty eventually accepts the role he played in her downfall.

No, they could and can still try her for the other two deaths, but they may not qualfy for the death penalty, but life in prison without the possibility of parole. In order for the jury to agree with that charge they would have to find that she was sane. It would be up to the individual jury, but this wouldnt' be a "death penalty qualified" jury though. After the almost $2 million that the State of Texas has already spent to basically move Yates from one state run hospital to another, I doubt that the prosecutor would be stupid enough to try her for the other two, but don't forget that there is no statute of limitations on murder, so let's say that her doctors and the judge agree in a couple of years that she's able to be released from the hospital. The prosecutor could STILL hold another trial over her head.

 

[lorann]

No, they could and can still try her for the other two deaths, but they may not qualfy for the death penalty, but life in prison without the possibility of parole. In order for the jury to agree with that charge they would have to find that she was sane. It would be up to the individual jury, but this wouldnt' be a "death penalty qualified" jury though. After the almost $2 million that the State of Texas has already spent to basically move Yates from one state run hospital to another, I doubt that the prosecutor would be stupid enough to try her for the other two, but don't forget that there is no statute of limitations on murder, so let's say that her doctors and the judge agree in a couple of years that she's able to be released from the hospital. The prosecutor could STILL hold another trial over her head.

Oh, thanks, I must have misunderstood.

 

[ember]

Whether she was insane or not, I agree. If she is that insane that she can do that, she should die. If not, she should die five times, one for each of her victims.

But I disagree that people can kill for a variety of reasons absent psychosis. A child rapist who kills to avoid prison isn't necessarily insane.

Cal

BUT aren't you insane in the first place if you want to rape a child?

Insane: 1. afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement
2. Immoderate; wild
3. Very foolish; absurd


OK, Cal. I love ya and know where you're coming from. I'm just saying the issue of insanity is a moot point to me. I can't see how that can be a defense or why that makes a person not guilty....it's a given in these situations....

 

[calus_3]

BUT aren't you insane in the first place if you want to rape a child?

Insane: 1. afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement
2. Immoderate; wild
3. Very foolish; absurd


OK, Cal. I love ya and know where you're coming from. I'm just saying the issue of insanity is a moot point to me. I can't see how that can be a defense or why that makes a person not guilty....it's a given in these situations....

Holy cow, I AM INSANE!

I agree with you.

Cal

 

[ember]

She wasn't driven insane by anyone. When a woman becomes pregnant, her hormones change. Andrea's body composition was such that pregnancy made her hormones rage in a way that she could not deal with. That's why her doctors recommended that she not have any more children. Her husband and her minister decided that God didn't want her to stop having children, so they disregarded medical advice and continued to have child after child after child after child after child until her body was a wreck. Now, as we've all said before, a NORMAL person would put the breaks on and say to hell with all that, I'm done having children. That gives us some clue that Yates was NOT normal and was in no condiition to be making any decision for herself.

Well then, it sounds to me like she WAS driven insane by her husband and her, ahem, minister. AND they should both be locked up in there with her. No doubt this woman had issues, but it doesn't make her any less guilty in my book.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

BUT aren't you insane in the first place if you want to rape a child?

Insane: 1. afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement
2. Immoderate; wild
3. Very foolish; absurd


OK, Cal. I love ya and know where you're coming from. I'm just saying the issue of insanity is a moot point to me. I can't see how that can be a defense or why that makes a person not guilty....it's a given in these situations....

Its a "disorder," but I don't know if it rises to the level of insanity and unfortunately different juries would most likely disagree.

I agree with your last paragraph though. I think the law in American is worded improperly. It should be "guilty, but insane," or something like that. They're very definately "guilty" of the "act" of murder, but since they cannot be held responsible, the legal definition must be "not guilty." It would help a great deal if the wording was simply changed and also that the jury was allowed to know just how very unlikely it would be for that individual defendant to ever be released. Some are more likely than others and I think the public and the jury has a right to know from the experts testifying what the chances are for that specific defendant.

 

[ember]

Holy cow, I AM INSANE!

I agree with you.

Cal

he,he,he me too....but I don't suffer from it, I enjoy the hell out of it!

:blowkiss: to you Cal

 

[kato]

Well then, it sounds to me like she WAS driven insane by her husband and her, ahem, minister. AND they should both be locked up in there with her. No doubt this woman had issues, but it doesn't make her any less guilty in my book.

Prosecutors had looked into prosecuting Rusty with negligent homocide or maybe something else but for whatever reason decided not to pursue it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Well then, it sounds to me like she WAS driven insane by her husband and her, ahem, minister. AND they should both be locked up in there with her. No doubt this woman had issues, but it doesn't make her any less guilty in my book.

Without the hormonal changes, she wouldn't have killed though. So, you're right that they played a major part in it, but without all the components, you don't have a killer. There is such a stigma about even seeking treatment for mental disorders in this country that its not a big shock that we don't fully understand how these disorders can wreak havoc on one's state of mind. There are fully functioning people who have been diagnosed with some pretty bad stuff and there are others who have never sought treatment who just seem to be completely whacked out. Its a scary thing, but we can't just pretend that its not real.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Well then, it sounds to me like she WAS driven insane by her husband and her, ahem, minister. AND they should both be locked up in there with her. No doubt this woman had issues, but it doesn't make her any less guilty in my book.

By the way, are you familiar with the story of the woman in Plano, Texas who sliced off the arms of her 10-month old daughter? Her name was Schlossberg. Her minster, Doyle Davidson of the Water of Life Church, was ABSOLUTELY instrumental in her mental illness (and her husband as well). There is much about this cult on the internet. She too was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Thankfully, two of her children were at school during that murder and are still alive, but unfortunately are still living with their whacked out father.

 

[kato]

By the way, are you familiar with the story of the woman in Plano, Texas who sliced off the arms of her 10-month old daughter? Her name was Schlossberg. Her minster, Doyle Davidson of the Water of Life Church, was ABSOLUTELY instrumental in her mental illness (and her husband as well). There is much about this cult on the internet. She too was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Thankfully, two of her children were at school during that murder and are still alive, but unfortunately are still living with their whacked out father.

Now that's another certified whack job.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Now that's another certified whack job.

Absolutely. I'm not scared by too many people, but just the look of her mug shot sent chills down my spine.

 

[kato]

Absolutely. I'm not scared by too many people, but just the look of her mug shot sent chills down my spine.

You could practically see Satan in her wild eyes. At least IMO.

 

[kato]

PrimeTime tonight on Yates with never before seen video footage. They showed a snippet on GMA this morning. Sure it will be interesting.

I bought me a portable DVD player so now if I don't have time to watch some shows at night while I'm at home I can record them and watch them the next day at work. LOL

 

[ember]

Without the hormonal changes, she wouldn't have killed though. So, you're right that they played a major part in it, but without all the components, you don't have a killer. There is such a stigma about even seeking treatment for mental disorders in this country that its not a big shock that we don't fully understand how these disorders can wreak havoc on one's state of mind. There are fully functioning people who have been diagnosed with some pretty bad stuff and there are others who have never sought treatment who just seem to be completely whacked out. Its a scary thing, but we can't just pretend that its not real.

It's always good to read you Jeana...you bring an enlightenment to these posts. I agree about the stigma of mental disorders and think that if someone truly suffers from one, they should seek help at all cost. I absolutley believe there are alot of people out there who suffer...whether it be severely or moderately, they suffer. BUT I also think that now adays, the mental disease "professionals" push a quick fix on anyone who comes in with the slightest little problem. All of these meds dull a persons coping ability. It makes them dependent on "feel good" or "happy pills" and I absolutley do not agree with that. I think that mental disorders have gone full blown and more and more people claim to have them just beacuse they cannot cope. Especially if you take them off the meds...then they really go nuts...because they don't know what normal everyday life pain is anymore. And personally, I would not take something that cautions on the warning lable that it could cause me to have homicidal or suicidal tendancies when it supposed to make me feel better! HUH? What is that all about :waitasec: ! No one promised an easy, simple life to any of us. Life is hard at times and those times need to be dealt with, not dulled. Life can also be a beautiful ride and sadly that can also be missed when you're numb. I just think people should really live and that means dealing with life and all of it's highs and lows...But that is just my opinion.

 

[ember]

By the way, are you familiar with the story of the woman in Plano, Texas who sliced off the arms of her 10-month old daughter? Her name was Schlossberg. Her minster, Doyle Davidson of the Water of Life Church, was ABSOLUTELY instrumental in her mental illness (and her husband as well). There is much about this cult on the internet. She too was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Thankfully, two of her children were at school during that murder and are still alive, but unfortunately are still living with their whacked out father.

Yes I am. That case bothered me so much. Didn't she blame it on a spider running across her hand? Crazy Biotch...sorry....anyway....that poor baby, the pain she must have suffered. See, I guess that is why I cannot feel sorry for these people....all I can think about is the life that suffered at their hands and I feel NO sympathy for this scurge AND I truly believe they just need to be put down like a rabid animal that is suffering from its afflictioon as well.
The religion thing about these cases...well we just won't even go there. Most of y'all know how I feel about religion. :hand:

 

[PaperDoll]

It's always good to read you Jeana...you bring an enlightenment to these posts. I agree about the stigma of mental disorders and think that if someone truly suffers from one, they should seek help at all cost. I absolutley believe there are alot of people out there who suffer...whether it be severely or moderately, they suffer. BUT I also think that now adays, the mental disease "professionals" push a quick fix on anyone who comes in with the slightest little problem. All of these meds dull a persons coping ability. It makes them dependent on "feel good" or "happy pills" and I absolutley do not agree with that. I think that mental disorders have gone full blown and more and more people claim to have them just beacuse they cannot cope. Especially if you take them off the meds...then they really go nuts...because they don't know what normal everyday life pain is anymore. And personally, I would not take something that cautions on the warning lable that it could cause me to have homicidal or suicidal tendancies when it supposed to make me feel better! HUH? What is that all about :waitasec: ! No one promised an easy, simple life to any of us. Life is hard at times and those times need to be dealt with, not dulled. Life can also be a beautiful ride and sadly that can also be missed when you're numb. I just think people should really live and that means dealing with life and all of it's highs and lows...But that is just my opinion.

I so agree with your post, Ember