TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[gitana1]

Shoot to kill.

Without being attacked.

Also, why she didn't know she was in a totally different apartment (wasn't it even on a different floor?) could be a big part of recklessness.

 

[Lillymac]

What do you mean "please!!!". That's exactly what she did.

Oh sorry. I did not realize there were eye witnesses...

 

[wary]

The grandpa wasn't a professional trained in cruise ship windows. That's the difference.

I haven’t read about that case, but it’s also possible that the grandfather is getting the: ‘he’s suffering enough already’ exemption from prosecution. (Whether or not we believe that should exist—it definitely does. MOO.)

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Oh sorry. I did not realize there were eye witnesses...

She shot him. She is the eye witness. I really don't understand what you are confused about:

"I’m an off duty officer. I thought I was in my apartment and I shot a guy"
​

 

[gitana1]

When she entered the apartment she thought she was in her apartment. She thoughtj he was an intruder. She told him to show his hands..he didn't. So she protected herself. I would have done the same. And I don't live on the Southside of Dallas.

That's what she says. And execution is not the remedy for not showing one's hands.

There is a defense if he had a deadly weapon or if:

Protection of One’s Own Property
Under Texas Penal Code §9.42, a person may use deadly force against another to protect land or property if:

1. He is the owner of the land;
2. He reasonably believes using the force is immediately necessary to prevent arson, burglary, or robbery; and
3. He reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means.

Her mistake in believing she was on her property doesn't enable her to use self defense.

And she was unreasonable in believing she couldn't use other means of protecting the property, like leaving and calling for back up.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Without being attacked.

Also, why she didn't know she was in a totally different apartment (wasn't or even on a different floor?) could be a big part of recklessness.

Exactly. With all of the differences in their apartments (furniture etc) why did she not recognize immediately she was not in the correct apartment. Instead she focused on Mr. Jean.

 

[Lillymac]

She shot him. She is the eye witness. I really don't understand what you are confused about:

"I’m an off duty officer. I thought I was in my apartment and I shot a guy"
​

I'm not confused. At all!

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I'm not confused. At all!

Great. So you agree then there is an eye-witness.

 

[Lillymac]

Great. So you agree then there is an eye-witness.

I will agree that I don't know if there was an eye witness. It's not out of the realm of possibility....but it has not been reported. You know damn well I was being sarcastic and you missed my point completely. Every opinion here is based on supposition and not fact. That's all I'm saying!

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Right. And even if a she thought it was her apartment, it's okay to just execute someone you find in there whomis not attacking you inn any way? What if he had been the one mistaken about the apartment? IS the penalty for that death?

Let's pretend Amber was in her own apartment; would she have been justified in shooting the intruder?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Let's pretend Amber was in her own apartment; would she have been justified in shooting the intruder?

Of course, if she reasonably believed the force was immediately necessary to protect her against the Jean's use or attempted use of unlawful force.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Yeah it has to do with whether behavior is deemed reckless or not. Depends on the statute and jurisdiction.

Getting wasted (assumption) and forcing your way into another person's apartment who you then shoot to death when he's not even attacking you is all kinds of reckless.

She had a weapon. A dangerous weapon which elevates the duty of care.

The difference could be analogous to someone who mistakes the gas for the break and plows into a group of kids, killing them, as opposed to someone driving drunk and plowing into a group of kids. Or texting and plowing into a group of kids.

One isn't reckless. The other two are.

Whoa! You're making a number of unfounded assumptions. "Forcing" her way into apartment? Incorrect. The door was left cracked open (recall, victim had drugs in his system). Getting wasted? No proof. Amber was exhausted from protecting citizens from criminals. Weren't drugs found in the deceased apartment?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I will agree that I don't know if there was an eye witness. It's not out of the realm of possibility....but it has not been reported. You know damn well I was being sarcastic and you missed my point completely. Every opinion here is based on supposition and not fact. That's all I'm saying!

Um yeah, guess I am not getting your obfuscation. My bad.

 

[gitana1]

She shot him. She is the eye witness. I really don't understand what you are confused about:

"I’m an off duty officer. I thought I was in my apartment and I shot a guy"
​

Yes. And she was on a totally different floor. Anyone sober should know what floor they're on and that they don't have a red mat in front of their door like the victim did.
On the anniversary of Botham Jean’s death, jury selection in his murder trial begins

Further, there were more witnesses.

Attorneys for Jean's family say two witnesses told them details that contradict Guyger's account.

"They heard knocking down the hallway followed by a woman's voice that they believe to be officer Guyger saying, 'Let me in. Let me in,'" attorney Lee Merritt said.

The family's attorneys say one of the witnesses then heard gunshots followed by a man's voice.

"What we believe to be the last words of Botham Jean which was 'Oh my god, why did you do that?'" Merritt said.
Witnesses dispute Dallas cop's account in fatal shooting of neighbor, attorney says

Nothing remotely close to "show me your hands!"

Sounds like someone was in a rage because they believed someone was in their place and they went in shooting.

But if this case is moved out of Dallas as the defense wants, I'm confident she will get off.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Of course, if she reasonably believed the force was immediately necessary to protect her against the Jean's use or attempted use of unlawful force.

Incorrect. Unlawful force is inherent when breaking and entering. Please review Castle Doctrine.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Whoa! You're making a number of unfounded assumptions. "Forcing" her way into apartment? Incorrect. The door was left cracked open (recall, victim had drugs in his system). Getting wasted? No proof. Amber was exhausted from protecting citizens from criminals. Weren't drugs found in the deceased apartment?

Let's role play. Let's say it was Mr. Jean who went into Ms. Guyger's apartment and shot her when she stood up from her couch.

Two questions:
1) Would you defend Mr. Jean the same way you defend Ms. Guyger?
2) Would you find it appropriate if DPD executed a search warrant on the victim, Ms. Guyger's, apartment and not the shooter Mr. Jean's?

 

[MsArk]

What would have been AG’s motive for her to go into a strangers apartment and start firing? I do tend to believe this was a tragic accident.

Yes. And she was on a totally different floor. Anyone sober should know what floor they're on and that they don't have a red mat in front of their door like the victim did.
On the anniversary of Botham Jean’s death, jury selection in his murder trial begins

Further, there were more witnesses.

Attorneys for Jean's family say two witnesses told them details that contradict Guyger's account.

"They heard knocking down the hallway followed by a woman's voice that they believe to be officer Guyger saying, 'Let me in. Let me in,'" attorney Lee Merritt said.

The family's attorneys say one of the witnesses then heard gunshots followed by a man's voice.

"What we believe to be the last words of Botham Jean which was 'Oh my god, why did you do that?'" Merritt said.
Witnesses dispute Dallas cop's account in fatal shooting of neighbor, attorney says

Nothing remotely close to "show me your hands!"

Sounds like someone was in a rage because they believed someone was in their place and they went in shooting.

But if this case is moved out of Dallas as the defense wants, in confident she will get off.

If she was a under the influence, that makes a big difference, IMO. Has it be confirmed she had been drinking?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Incorrect. Unlawful force is inherent when breaking and entering. Please review Castle Doctrine.

In fact, I was quoting the law: PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

What is your point, exactly?

 

[gitana1]

Let's pretend Amber was in her own apartment; would she have been justified in shooting the intruder?

Depends on the circumstances. I cited the law.

 

[gitana1]

Of course, if she reasonably believed the force was immediately necessary to protect her against the Jean's use or attempted use of unlawful force.

And there was no reasonable alternative.