TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[Hraefn]

Let's pretend Amber was in her own apartment; would she have been justified in shooting the intruder?

IMO, it depends.

Has the defense shown any signs that they will try to expand the Castle Doctrine to a person who claims they thought they were in their own home? And if they do make that argument, what standard of review will apply? An objective reasonableness standard?
IMO it's not relevant what would happen if she had been at her own home, but rather whether the defense is trying to claim her alleged belief of being in her own home as triggering the broad protection of the Castle Doctrine.

Whoa! You're making a number of unfounded assumptions. "Forcing" her way into apartment? Incorrect. The door was left cracked open (recall, victim had drugs in his system). Getting wasted? No proof. Amber was exhausted from protecting citizens from criminals. Weren't drugs found in the deceased apartment?

What was or was not in Jean's apartment is completely irrelevant.

No. Except the getting wasted part I'm not basing it on "assumptions." I'm basing it on statements by eye witnesses, by herself and by tenants who live there and stated that those doors self-close. They don't stay open as she tried to lie and say.

That's evidence. Not assumption. Evidence that is highly likely to be introduced at trial.

And if she was exhausted she had an even higher duty of care when it came to her weapon.

Finally, it is irrelevant that the victim in this case had marijuana in his apartment. Expect for the fact that the police used it to try to influence the public that somehow he was a bad guy who caused or deserved his own death.

Looks like it worked.

I agree with all of this ^

Castle Doctrine doesn't apply, however, when it's not your home. Even if you're exhausted from work.

Again, really curious how this issue will play out.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Not if there was no threat involved:

Is it Legal to Shoot an Intruder? - FindLaw
In order to use self-defense as a shield against a charge for a violent crime in most jurisdictions, you must:

1. Not be the aggressor;
2. Only use enough force to combat the threat and no more (i.e. you can't bring a gun to a fist fight);
3. Have a reasonable belief that force is necessary;
4. Have a reasonable belief that an attack is imminent; and
5. Retreat (if possible).

In Texas, there is no duty to retreat. The Texas law differs from some other states. The Texas law is here: PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

And a more layman's explanation: https://www.brodenmickelsen.com/blog/texas-stand-ground-law-explained/

"In Texas, individuals have no duty to retreat when they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of bodily harm or death if they’re threatened in their home, in their vehicle, or at their job. To raise the Texas stand your ground law defense, the person must be able to show that they didn’t provoke the person who attacked them. They must also be able to show that they weren’t breaking any laws at the time of the incident. "​

 

[BeachSky]

Fired DPD Cop, Amber Guyger Back In Court For Killing Botham Jean

In this video-
Says both sides agreed that they cannot bring up the fact that AG was fired from her job.

MOO

 

[sloane7777]

In Texas, there is no duty to retreat. The Texas differs from some other states. The Texas law is here: PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

And a more layman's explanation: https://www.brodenmickelsen.com/blog/texas-stand-ground-law-explained/

"In Texas, individuals have no duty to retreat when they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of bodily harm or death if they’re threatened in their home, in their vehicle, or at their job. To raise the Texas stand your ground law defense, the person must be able to show that they didn’t provoke the person who attacked them. They must also be able to show that they weren’t breaking any laws at the time of the incident. "​

technically she WAS breaking the law in someone else's residence without being invited ....so there's that ....just sayin.

 

[sloane7777]

Why

Fired DPD Cop, Amber Guyger Back In Court For Killing Botham Jean

In this video-
Says both sides agreed that they cannot bring up the fact that AG was fired from her job.

MOO

Why I wonder -its a fact so why? does anyone know exactly what she was fired for officially.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“He was not on the road. He was not walking. He wasn’t driving. He wasn’t running,” Allison Jean told Radio Caribbean International’s show “She Speaks” in an interview released Tuesday. “Most of the other murders that you see in the United States you hear that they say ‘He had something that looked like a gun’ or ‘He had something that looked like a weapon.’ My son was just sitting on his couch waiting to watch a football match at 10 O’ clock and he did not see 10 O’ clock.”

“When I see – especially when I see her in videos walking like a human being and I don’t have my son that I could hug and I can be with,” an emotional Allison Jean said. “So I have my moments. There are times before I go to bed that I just have to cry myself to sleep.”

Listen to her full interview below:
Botham Jean’s Mom Breaks Her Silence On ‘Son’s Murderer,’ Amber Guyger

 

[Wishbone]

Why


Why I wonder -its a fact so why? does anyone know exactly what she was fired for officially.

Police said in a news release that Hall fired Guyger after an internal investigation found the officer had engaged in "adverse conduct" when she was charged with manslaughter three days after the shooting.
Dallas officer Amber Guyger fired after manslaughter charge for killing Botham Jean

 

[CrimeDawg123]

technically she WAS breaking the law in someone else's residence without being invited ....so there's that ....just sayin.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering if she could even try to use stand your ground since she was unlawfully in his apt.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Older article:

Lawyers representing the family revealed details of the pending lawsuit on Monday, showing exactly what Jean’s parents were hoping to accomplish with it.

“Jean’s parents say they want their lawsuit to not just focus on how their son died, but to change how police officers are trained about when to fire their weapons,” the Dallas Morning News reported Monday afternoon.
Details Of Botham Jean’s Family Lawsuit Against Dallas Are Revealed

 

[sloane7777]

Police said in a news release that Hall fired Guyger after an internal investigation found the officer had engaged in "adverse conduct" when she was charged with manslaughter three days after the shooting.
Dallas officer Amber Guyger fired after manslaughter charge for killing Botham Jean

I wonder if the ADVERSE conduct was the weed ?
If she was fired for her conduct that night with the shooting it seems that would have to be admissible in court, they seriously need to clear up who's weed it is because naturally everyone thinks its his , the only Adverse conduct other than the weed would be her negligence , which again should be admissible.

 

[Wishbone]

What if she was not a police officer? If that was the case. wouldn't she have been arrested immediately? Then have her apartment, car, electronics and anything else searched asap? The victim's apartment was searched and details of contents were released to the media. However, there has been nothing forthcoming in regards to the killer's apartment being searched and she reportedly moved several days after the murder. If anything was to be found by searching her apartment, its long gone now. She should not have had preferential treatment because of her job title. There are bad seeds in every profession. IMO the beginning of this investigation was improper.

 

[Hraefn]

In Texas, there is no duty to retreat. The Texas law differs from some other states. The Texas law is here: PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

And a more layman's explanation: https://www.brodenmickelsen.com/blog/texas-stand-ground-law-explained/

"In Texas, individuals have no duty to retreat when they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of bodily harm or death if they’re threatened in their home, in their vehicle, or at their job. To raise the Texas stand your ground law defense, the person must be able to show that they didn’t provoke the person who attacked them. They must also be able to show that they weren’t breaking any laws at the time of the incident. "​

The last sentence makes me wonder if there are any arguments that the defendant was by legal definition breaking and entering when she entered Jean’s apartment. I’ll have to check the statute on that.

 

[Wishbone]

I wonder if the ADVERSE conduct was the weed ?
If she was fired for her conduct that night with the shooting it seems that would have to be admissible in court, they seriously need to clear up who's weed it is because naturally everyone thinks its his , the only Adverse conduct other than the weed would be her negligence , which again should be admissible.

It seems to be because she has been charged with a felony. Her pending cases against other perps have had to be dismissed for this reason.

9 Cases Dropped After Dallas Former Officer Amber Guyger Charged With Murder

9 Cases Dropped After Amber Guyger Was Charged With Murder

 

[sloane7777]

What if she was not a police officer? If that was the case. wouldn't she have been arrested immediately? Then have her apartment, car, electronics and anything else searched asap? The victim's apartment was searched and details of contents were released to the media. However, there has been nothing forthcoming in regards to the killer's apartment being searched and she reportedly moved several days after the murder. If anything was to be found by searching her apartment, its long gone now. She should not have had preferential treatment because of her job title. There are bad seeds in every profession. IMO the beginning of this investigation was improper.

It seems to be because she has been charged with a felony. Her pending cases against other perps have had to be dismissed for this reason.

9 Cases Dropped After Dallas Former Officer Amber Guyger Charged With Murder

9 Cases Dropped After Amber Guyger Was Charged With Murder

It just Chaps my %#$# that everyone assumes (including the public /press) its his !!!

 

[mickey2942]

It seems to be because she has been charged with a felony. Her pending cases against other perps have had to be dismissed for this reason.

9 Cases Dropped After Dallas Former Officer Amber Guyger Charged With Murder

9 Cases Dropped After Amber Guyger Was Charged With Murder

Hall was standing by Guyger and the union position that Guyger would not be terminated until the investigation was completed.

Then, Lee Merritt had church folks out protesting on Sundays, at the Dallas Cowboys stadium. Buses of church folks, in Sunday church clothes, elderly folks, marching peacefully in protest of Amber Guyger, and decision to support the shooting of Botham Jean.

This was not the escalated marches of protest that occurred in Missouri. Lee Merritt is savvy. Riot police officers against elderly church folk isn't going to show well on CNN.

Hall caved within a week. Guyger was terminated by Dallas PD.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"As a police chief, my job is to ensure the integrity -- the highest level of integrity -- in this criminal investigation," Hall said. "And that is what I did. And I waited until the critical portion of the investigation was complete."

But the chief did not elaborate on the "critical portion" she referred to. The police department's tweet about Guyger's firing used the term "adverse conduct."

"The adverse conduct would be any time you're a police officer and you're arrested for the commission of any offense, but certainly for a second-degree felony offense," said Russell Wilson, a former prosecutor who is not involved in the case. "The police department could view that as being adverse to the best interest of the department."
Dallas PD fires Officer Amber Guyger over Botham Jean shooting

 

[mickey2942]

"As a police chief, my job is to ensure the integrity -- the highest level of integrity -- in this criminal investigation," Hall said. "And that is what I did. And I waited until the critical portion of the investigation was complete."

But the chief did not elaborate on the "critical portion" she referred to. The police department's tweet about Guyger's firing used the term "adverse conduct."

"The adverse conduct would be any time you're a police officer and you're arrested for the commission of any offense, but certainly for a second-degree felony offense," said Russell Wilson, a former prosecutor who is not involved in the case. "The police department could view that as being adverse to the best interest of the department."
Dallas PD fires Officer Amber Guyger over Botham Jean shooting

Of course. The elderly church folk protesting had nothing to do with her decision.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Judge Kemp ruled this afternoon on change of venue - trial will stay in Dallas. Trial is set to begin Monday Sept 23.

Amber Guyger Murder Trial Staying in Dallas, Judge Says

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Guyger’s lawyers argued “prejudicial” media coverage and the actions of public officials have made it too difficult to find 12 men and women, along with 4 alternate jurors, who can show no prejudice.

Guyger’s murder trial is set to begin Sept. 23.
Judge Rules Murder Trial Of Former Police Officer Amber Guyger Stays In Dallas County

Larry Collins (@LarryNBC5) on Twitter

Earlier in the day, Guyger’s defense tactics became clearer when it was reported the fired cop’s attorneys planned to argue she was innocent of murder because she only committed what they called a “mistake of fact.” That “mistake of fact was supposed to excuse the fact that Guyger, who at that point was a police officer trained to discern between actual and perceived threats, implausibly and purportedly mistook Jean’s apartment for hers.
Amber Guyger’s Murder Trial Won’t Move From Dallas In Quest For Justice For Botham Jean

 

[mickey2942]

Guyger’s lawyers argued “prejudicial” media coverage and the actions of public officials have made it too difficult to find 12 men and women, along with 4 alternate jurors, who can show no prejudice.

Guyger’s murder trial is set to begin Sept. 23.
Judge Rules Murder Trial Of Former Police Officer Amber Guyger Stays In Dallas County

Larry Collins (@LarryNBC5) on Twitter

Earlier in the day, Guyger’s defense tactics became clearer when it was reported the fired cop’s attorneys planned to argue she was innocent of murder because she only committed what they called a “mistake of fact.” That “mistake of fact was supposed to excuse the fact that Guyger, who at that point was a police officer trained to discern between actual and perceived threats, implausibly and purportedly mistook Jean’s apartment for hers.
Amber Guyger’s Murder Trial Won’t Move From Dallas In Quest For Justice For Botham Jean

Nice that AG had an opportunity to talk to her attorney to get her statement correct, before she had to make a statement about the shooting to the police.

I guess that the defense didn't think that folks in Dallas could understand complicated distinctions in the law...hmm...