TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[imstilla.grandma]

Nice that AG had an opportunity to talk to her attorney to get her statement correct, before she had to make a statement about the shooting to the police.

I guess that the defense didn't think that folks in Dallas could understand complicated distinctions in the law...hmm...

*Like*

 

[YESorNO]

How will Amber Guyger's attorneys defend her in murder trial for killing Botham Jean?

Sep 16, 2019

"When Amber Guyger’s murder trial begins a week from Monday, the jury won’t be deciding whether she killed Botham Jean.

The fact that she pulled the trigger isn't in dispute. Jurors instead must decide whether killing the unarmed 26-year-old accountant in his own apartment was a crime. And if so, what crime?

Guyger's attorneys are expected to argue that she isn’t guilty of a crime because she made a “mistake of fact,” meaning she believed something to be true but it wasn’t.

The Dallas officer, who has since been fired, told police that she confused Jean’s apartment at the South Side Flats for her own on the night of Sept. 6, 2018, and she mistook Jean for a burglar.

But Guyger can’t just say she made a mistake and be found not guilty, legal experts said. The jury must believe her mistake was reasonable. And that leads to more questions.

The “mistake of fact” defense might be unfamiliar outside legal circles, but it’s an argument used often in Dallas courts and nationwide, Dallas defense attorney Russell Wilson said.

“Mistake of fact is the same thing that you're hearing when you hear the police say, ‘We thought he had a gun,’” Wilson said...."

How will Amber Guyger's attorneys defend her in murder trial for killing Botham Jean?

 

[Handsome Sailor]

as a gentle reminder, the "eyewitnesses" in this case have proven to be unreliable. very similar to false claims made by "eyewitnesses" in Michael Brown case. One witness in the Dallas case claimed to here the exact words spoken in a conversation between the two...and the witness lived 2 buildings away!

 

[Handsome Sailor]

If not Shem's, whose drugs were they?

 

[gitana1]

I'm genuinely curious what the standard will be for part 1; will a reasonable belief standard also be applied there? As an attorney I have never seen the issue arise.

O/T there is a case that is *kind of* an opposite to this one, Nathaniel Rosa allegedly thought he entered the home he was supposed to be in (he was not the home owner of the residence he thought he was entering, but he allegedly thought he was entering the correct house and the houses allegedly all look similar), but it was the wrong residence. The actual home owner of the residence NR entered, allegedly by accident, shot and killed NR as NR was taking a shower. IIRC the home owner at one point left the dwelling to retrieve the weapon and then returned, which makes the case very different. But it is another case people interested here may be interested in as it is a strange set of facts for a Castle Doctrine defense claim. WS link: WA - Nathaniel Rosa, 31, fatally shot by homeowner, Belfair, 1 April 2017

(ETA: Can you tell I'm a lawyer with all the times I used the word "allegedly" LOL sorry about that)

Ha ha! Yup.

I think she has to be the owner for the castle doctrine to kick in for sure. No reasonable belief. It has to be.

That's my understanding. But we shall see.

 

[Wishbone]

as a gentle reminder, the "eyewitnesses" in this case have proven to be unreliable. very similar to false claims made by "eyewitnesses" in Michael Brown case. One witness in the Dallas case claimed to here the exact words spoken in a conversation between the two...and the witness lived 2 buildings away!

Just as a juror decides which witnesses are credible and which are not, I do the same after hearing the testimony. But it was kind of you to share your opinion.

 

[gitana1]

It just Chaps my %#$# that everyone assumes (including the public /press) its his !!!

Did we ever get his toxicology results?

I don't care if it's his. It's really not relevant. Marijuana is more benign than alcohol. I'd probably use it myself except it doesn't work well with me.

 

[gitana1]

Just as a juror decides which witnesses are credible and which are not, I do the same after hearing the testimony. But it was kind of you to share your opinion.

Wishbone, I think I love you. Lol.

 

[Wishbone]

Wishbone, I think I love you. Lol.

Back at ya

 

[gitana1]

Judge Kemp ruled this afternoon on change of venue - trial will stay in Dallas. Trial is set to begin Monday Sept 23.

Amber Guyger Murder Trial Staying in Dallas, Judge Says

Whoa. Whew.

 

[gitana1]

Guyger’s lawyers argued “prejudicial” media coverage and the actions of public officials have made it too difficult to find 12 men and women, along with 4 alternate jurors, who can show no prejudice.

Guyger’s murder trial is set to begin Sept. 23.
Judge Rules Murder Trial Of Former Police Officer Amber Guyger Stays In Dallas County

Larry Collins (@LarryNBC5) on Twitter

Earlier in the day, Guyger’s defense tactics became clearer when it was reported the fired cop’s attorneys planned to argue she was innocent of murder because she only committed what they called a “mistake of fact.” That “mistake of fact was supposed to excuse the fact that Guyger, who at that point was a police officer trained to discern between actual and perceived threats, implausibly and purportedly mistook Jean’s apartment for hers.
Amber Guyger’s Murder Trial Won’t Move From Dallas In Quest For Justice For Botham Jean

@Hraefn what do you think?

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Drug usage is CERTAINLY relevant in this case. It could explain why the door was left ajar. It could explain why he didn't respond to clear commands.

 

[gitana1]

How will Amber Guyger's attorneys defend her in murder trial for killing Botham Jean?

Sep 16, 2019

"When Amber Guyger’s murder trial begins a week from Monday, the jury won’t be deciding whether she killed Botham Jean.

The fact that she pulled the trigger isn't in dispute. Jurors instead must decide whether killing the unarmed 26-year-old accountant in his own apartment was a crime. And if so, what crime?

Guyger's attorneys are expected to argue that she isn’t guilty of a crime because she made a “mistake of fact,” meaning she believed something to be true but it wasn’t.

The Dallas officer, who has since been fired, told police that she confused Jean’s apartment at the South Side Flats for her own on the night of Sept. 6, 2018, and she mistook Jean for a burglar.

But Guyger can’t just say she made a mistake and be found not guilty, legal experts said. The jury must believe her mistake was reasonable. And that leads to more questions.

The “mistake of fact” defense might be unfamiliar outside legal circles, but it’s an argument used often in Dallas courts and nationwide, Dallas defense attorney Russell Wilson said.

“Mistake of fact is the same thing that you're hearing when you hear the police say, ‘We thought he had a gun,’” Wilson said...."

How will Amber Guyger's attorneys defend her in murder trial for killing Botham Jean?

Based on this I think it still comes down to whether she was reckless. Because if she was then the mistake of fact wasn't reasonable.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Just as a juror decides which witnesses are credible and which are not, I do the same after hearing the testimony. But it was kind of you to share your opinion.

not opinion. it's fact. go back to the original reporting in DMN

 

[mickey2942]

Drug usage is CERTAINLY relevant in this case. It could explain why the door was left ajar. It could explain why he didn't respond to clear commands.

Someone comes in my house, and tells me to raise my hands? What if Mr. Jean was hearing impaired? If AG had stormed into my house and told my elderly, disabled, blind, deaf, veteran husband to raise his hands...she probably would have shot him too. Because he wouldn't have done it either.

 

[Kittybunny]

Drug usage is CERTAINLY relevant in this case. It could explain why the door was left ajar. It could explain why he didn't respond to clear commands.

Have you read anything about the victim? He's a very well-regarded accountant and upstanding community citizen. Are you making assumptions about him based on...well...I don't know what. This wasn't a trap house - it was a nice apartment building, as evidenced that LE lived there as well.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Based on this I think it still comes down to whether she was reckless. Because if she was then the mistake of fact wasn't reasonable.

Who-wee. Haven’t checked in on this thread in a bit, and I see it’s very “lively”. We all have our opinions and speculations, but I think Gitana distills it down clearly. Did the Officer follow proper procedure , or was she a reckless gunslinger?

I think the answer to this question will decide her fate. Then of course, the civil trial....

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Rocco]

Drug usage is CERTAINLY relevant in this case. It could explain why the door was left ajar. It could explain why he didn't respond to clear commands.

She gave him clear commands? What were they?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A blood sample was taken from Guyger after the shooting by Dallas police investigators, but it could take months before the results of the toxicology report are returned, Merritt said.

“However, the information we’ve received at this time seem to indicate that she was not under the influence of any drugs or alcohol,” Merritt said. “Therefore if she’s sober going to that door and missing all of those multitude of markers including the fact that she was on the wrong floor and entering an apartment that was not hers, then it’s difficult to buy that narrative.”
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/dallas/article218154635.html

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"To have my son smeared in such a way I think shows that there are persons who are really nasty, who are really dirty and are covering up for the devil Amber Guyger," Allison Jean said.

A search warrant released Thursday by the Dallas Police Department contradicts what Guyger initially told investigators after she fatally shot 26-year-old Jean inside his apartment, mistaking him for a burglar in her own residence.

According to the detective filing the report, on the night of shooting, Guyger "was attempting to enter apartment 1478, with a set of keys. An unknown male inside the apartment confronted the officer at the door. A neighbor stated he heard an exchange of words, immediately followed by at least two gunshots."

That statement contradicts what Guyger later told investigators, claiming "the door was slightly ajar… the room nearly completely dark,” and that she spotted him “from across the room… and shot him."
Family of Botham Jean Decries 'Smear' of His Character