TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[gitana1]

This. Everyone’s journey with grief is unique and when you navigate it it’s not a straight path. It’s up and down, back and forth and can catapult you into unknown places. Many of us here know this. We know it because we’ve had our own journey or we’ve witnessed someone else find their own way.

While AGs sexting MR after BJs death is certainly inappropriate, I can understand that maybe this time, her need was driven by something entirely different than before. I have seen some very inappropriate things transpire during grief and under extreme amounts of shock and/or stress.

That being said, I’m not saying this is the case here, just trying to maintain some objectivity.

All is simply my own opinion.

They made the same arguments during the Casey Anthony case. I don't buy it. No way in hell IMO was she grieving for Jean. There's a reason behavior of a defendant is analyzed and presented as evidence in homicide cases.

 

[Betty P]

This. Everyone’s journey with grief is unique and when you navigate it it’s not a straight path. It’s up and down, back and forth and can catapult you into unknown places. Many of us here know this. We know it because we’ve had our own journey or we’ve witnessed someone else find their own way.

While AGs sexting MR after BJs death is certainly inappropriate, I can understand that maybe this time, her need was driven by something entirely different than before. I have seen some very inappropriate things transpire during grief and under extreme amounts of shock and/or stress.

That being said, I’m not saying this is the case here, just trying to maintain some objectivity.

All is simply my own opinion.

I understand completely. I worked many years as a hospice volunteer and spent a decade counseling terminally ill cancer patients. Agree, people express grief in many ways and should have the freedom and privacy to grieve as they choose as long as it doesn't harm others.

That said, watching the videos, audio and listening to the testimony of Ms Guyger, I didn't perceive that she was grieving for Mr Jean. She was stressed, upset and worried about her job and possible criminal charges, but I don't think she felt true compassion for Mr Jean or his family. JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

If her apartment was supposed to have maintenance, why didn't she consider that it could be a maintenance person inside?

The prosecution made that exact point today.

 

[bwt42]

Does anyone know the jury make up? The report I read yesterday was hard to understand. Majority racial minorities. 8 women on jury + 4 woman alternates. I thought when I read that how did the defense let that happen.

 

[blue22]

If her apartment was supposed to have maintenance, why didn't she consider that it could be a maintenance person inside?

Maintenance does not work that late for scheduled, routine jobs. She knows that and it would be easily proven through apartment notifications. They are required to notify residents of the day and time (general time, like hours) maintenance will be doing repairs. The only cause for a maintenance person to be in an apartment that late, is an emergency. She would have ordered that or been notified.

I think it would have been stupid of her to claim that. I think she is a morally vacant person, but I don't think she is stupid

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Does anyone have a link to AG's full testimony? All I'm finding are snippets.

 

[Betty P]

Hell if I accidentally killed some kid who ran in front of my car through zero fault of my own, I would be hospitalized with grief. It's a damn life? Texting? Sexting? Joking? Discussing via text getting drunk?

I might actually get drunk to alleviate my intense grief. It would be so life altering for me. But to have casual discussions and joke is absolutely insane.

A man died.

I feel sad for humanity if this is interpreted as within the realm of the behavior of a remorseful person. And I don't care if she did other things to show remorse. Those other things don't erase all that. It truly shows a depraved character to me.

Of course her lack of remorse likely doesn't prove an element of the crimes but it can go to sentencing.

The most distressing thing to hear and visualize was of the officer sitting or kneeling (she says) next to Mr Jean's body while he is still alive, with her backpack inches away, containing state of the art tools to stop bleeding, but instead texting her married boyfriend. Then getting up and walking out in the hallway to send more texts for 5-7 minutes while Mr Jean lay there bleeding to death, alone.

The prosecution did a masterful job of putting that image together for jurors, using Ms Guyger's own testimony. I'm sure it was traumatic for the jurors to hear that. The defendant's demeanor during that questioning was cold and stone-faced. She almost seemed angry at the prosecution for making her answer those questions.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Does anyone have a link to AG's full testimony? All I'm finding are snippets.

ETA: She testified starting about 38:30

 

[Wishbone]

She thought. She thought. Well she thought wrong. And since when does what someone thinks make it alright to kill an innocent person. Ignorance is no excuse, I've heard that phrase all my life and it should hold true for this defendant. She cold-bloodedly killed an innocent man and she should pay the price for it. And her "ugly crying" with NO tears doesn't work on me. She's a lousy actress just like she is a lousy cop and a lousy human being.

 

[wyome]

It appears you didn't understand what I meant.

I knew what you meant. I was just frustrated that the "sexy texts" would play the part it did.

 

[Jax49]

Cross of AG.

 

[Wishbone]

I knew what you meant. I was just frustrated that the "sexy texts" would play the part it did.

She had a thing for her married partner and her “grief “ never changed that. She still wanted to drink and party and get it on with him. Him being married didn't get in the way of that and neither did killing Botham. She's disgusting.

 

[Rocco]

The most distressing thing to hear and visualize was of the officer sitting or kneeling (she says) next to Mr Jean's body while he is still alive, with her backpack inches away, containing state of the art tools to stop bleeding, but instead texting her married boyfriend. Then getting up and walking out in the hallway to send more texts for 5-7 minutes while Mr Jean lay there bleeding to death, alone.

The prosecution did a masterful job of putting that image together for jurors, using Ms Guyger's own testimony. I'm sure it was traumatic for the jurors to hear that. The defendant's demeanor during that questioning was cold and stone-faced. She almost seemed angry at the prosecution for making her answer those questions.

It was a nice touch to throw in there she did 'a little bit' of CPR---with one hand, and a sternum rub to keep him alert and breathing.

She didn't do squat for him IMO or she would have had blood on her somewhere.

 

[Betty P]

Cross of AG.

Yes, this is it:

Around 2:30 or so prosecuting attorney prepares to show the video of her getting into the car outside the apartment. Must see.

 

[gitana1]

She shot him intentionally because she thought he was an intruder in her apartment. A tragic accident.

I agree. But that doesn't mean there's no criminal culpability.

She was reckless. Negligent. Failed to follow her department's procedures. Was distracted and exhausted yet still carrying a loaded weapon. She was trigger happy.

I believe if he jury follows the jury instructions she will be found guilty of manslaughter or criminal negligence homicide.

 

[gitana1]

I think she will get a new trial if convicted. jmo

Nah. She will appeal but no grounds. It's super hard to appeal.

Did her counsel object on grounds of relevance BTW?

 

[gitana1]

The prosecution made that exact point today.

Which also goes to recklessness.

So now, according to those who feel this should never have been prosecuted because "poor Amber. It was merely a tragic accident", people who work for an apartment company, like maintenance, apartment managers, are at risk of being killed because "Oops! My bad!"

No consequences. At least when the killer looks like Amber and the perp doesn't.

 

[Catmommy]

Retired critical care RN here who once taught ACLS (Advanced Cardio Life Support) , it is impossible to do effective CPR with one hand. The chest MUST be depressed an inch and a half to two inches for effective compression.

Her ladylike quiet demeanor was off putting to me as well. She was the only female in this special force of police officers. I'm quite certain that she came on tough and strong in that company, unlike the way she came across on the witness stand today.

 

[Wishbone]

I agree. But that doesn't mean there's no criminal culpability.

She was reckless. Negligent. Failed to follow her department's procedures. Was distracted and exhausted yet still carrying a loaded weapon. She was trigger happy.

I believe if he jury follows the jury instructions she will be found guilty of manslaughter or criminal negligence homicide.

IMO I started out thinking criminally negligent homicide was the least punishment she would receive. Where I'm at now, I don't believe it is a harsh enough punishment. I doubt the jury will find for murder, but she deserves that verdict. I guess manslaughter would be a compromise. It makes me sick that she will be able to have a gun someday.

 

[gitana1]

I feel like the defense opened the door for this, when they claimed she felt remorse after the shooting and sought to prove that through her testimony.

Ahh. That's how.

Because IIRC it usually comes in in other cases to show consciousness of guilt in cases where it's a typical murder case. Or during the sentencing phase. Otherwise if I were her attorneys I would be objecting as to relevance and also as to more prejudicial than probative.

But they sought to paint her as a saint in an effort to have people feel sorry for her and the tragic accident that happened to her.

I understand the use of the strategy but I think that backfired.