GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[gitana1]

The DA wants her to be found guilty of murder.

They overcharged her and if he wants the manslaughter charge to be excluded then she walks.

This is absolutely a manslaughter or negligent homicide case, not a murder case.

I can't believe this DA!!!!!!

at least with manslaughter, she would probably be found guilty and sent to prison.

Jmo

They did not overcharge her. Not based on TX law which is different from others. However, removing the lesser included options could indeed mean death for this case.

What did the judge decide?

 

[blue22]

I have sung the praises of the prosecution and this has just thrown me. I am petrified she is going to walk.

 

[gitana1]

Wow so judge is basically allowing the jury to have instruction that says if they believe she was mistaken then they can acquit.

ETA: Basically the instruction does not treat her intent and decision to kill as a separate issue from her mistake. So if they believe she was genuinely mistaken then she can walk. Then you have the castle doctrine in there. So....

Yes. That's their defense. And TX law allows for that defense. That's the law. It's not the judge making a crazy ruling.

Is the Castle Doctrine being allowed in the jury instructions? If so, this case could be over. The state has to pound on reaosnableness to overcome the defense. But eliminating the option of finding her reckless, which definitively shows she wasn't reasonable, could feel to the jury like their hands are tied.

State must feel strong about their case. I don't.

 

[MsArk]

I disagree. If he succeeds I believe he stands a very good chance of losing the case.

Agree! This is not a good prosecutorial strategy.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Good Morning, Y'all !

I am not having a good day - I broke a tooth and hurting like hello

So can someone please give me a quick update?

I greatly appreciate it!

 

[magnolia]

Has the defense rested.

 

[lonetraveler]

Good Morning, Y'all !

I am not having a good day - I broke a tooth and hurting like hello

So can someone please give me a quick update?

I greatly appreciate it!

OUCH! Sorry you are feeling like this.

 

[iluvmua]

Yes. That's their defense. And TX law allows for that defense. That's the law. It's not the judge making a crazy ruling.

Is the Castle Doctrine being allowed in the jury instructions? If so, this case could be over. The state has to pound on reaosnableness to overcome the defense. But eliminating the option of finding her reckless, which definitively shows she wasn't reasonable, could feel to the jury like their hands are tied.

State must feel strong about their case. I don't.

Yes, the Castle Doctrine can be considered

 

[iluvmua]

Has the defense rested.

No

 

[gitana1]

Good Morning, Y'all !

I am not having a good day - I broke a tooth and hurting like hello

So can someone please give me a quick update?

I greatly appreciate it!

Sorry to hear!

I need a summary too. Sounds like jury instructions are being discussed. I don't know what else has happened or what the judge has decided (I'm not watching).

It also sounds like the state is throwing the case.

 

[lonetraveler]

Judge appears to be on low energy this Monday morning. I can definitely empathize.

 

[Wishbone]

Judge is allowing jury to consider castle doctrine when deliberations

In Texas, Section 9 of the Texas Penal Code provides legal justifications for the use of force in a limited set of circumstances when a person has no duty to retreat. For example, a homeowner in his own home does not have a duty to retreat and may use deadly force to protect himself against an armed intruder. This would be the same for a business owner in his place of business and a truck driver in his own truck.



Reading up on the Castle Doctrine I don't understand how Guyger is able to use it as a defense. All the information I can find states it is YOUR property, nowhere does it state the rule applies if YOU THINK it is yours when in actuality it is not. This stand your ground rule was written for people living in their homes and having the right to fend off intruders, which Guyger was. I'm surprised and dismayed that Guyger could use this as a defense. To me it is a perversion of what this law was meant to accomplish.

 

[lonetraveler]

Yes. That's their defense. And TX law allows for that defense. That's the law. It's not the judge making a crazy ruling.

Is the Castle Doctrine being allowed in the jury instructions? If so, this case could be over. The state has to pound on reaosnableness to overcome the defense. But eliminating the option of finding her reckless, which definitively shows she wasn't reasonable, could feel to the jury like their hands are tied.

State must feel strong about their case. I don't.

I agree, it looks like they are going for all or nothing. Guilty of murder or acquittal. Wow, jury is going to be upset IMO. Could be a hung jury at the conclusion of this deliberation.

 

[gitana1]

So then the jury would have only murder or acquittal??? is that right? i don't like it. she already has the benefit of the doubt- she is a police officer- i am tired of seeing police officers who murder people walk because they are cops.

Yes. IMO it's an incredibly stupid move. I hope the judge doesn't allow it. But if that's how the prosecutor feels he is unlikely to argue the lesser includeds. In other words, he has the option of pounding on murder in closing but also explaining how manslaughter is met as well as it is contained with murder and then explaining how.

He covers his bases that way.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Sorry to hear!

I need a summary too. Sounds like jury instructions are being discussed. I don't know what else has happened or what the judge has decided (I'm not watching).

It also sounds like the state is throwing the case.

Thank you.

Oh wow - jury instructions already? Did defense rest - yet?

And THANKS to everyone else!

 

[Cortne]

This doesn't sound so great to me, in my non educated opinion lol
If she walks lord have mercy it scares me to think about. Im 20 mins away but I know for sure if she walks I dont wanna be near Dallas or Tarrant Counties.

imo jmo

 

[mickey2942]

I have sung the praises of the prosecution and this has just thrown me. I am petrified she is going to walk.

This was what I thought would happen. The DA is savvy, he didn't want to alienate LEO, or public, he puts on vigorous defense, then, jury instructions are so stringent, murder charge only, it is a lifeline for AG, to not alienate LEO.

Knew it was going to be collusion. Now, if she gets off, jury is at fault. If jury finds her guilty, appeal process is already a done deal.

 

[gitana1]

In Texas, Section 9 of the Texas Penal Code provides legal justifications for the use of force in a limited set of circumstances when a person has no duty to retreat. For example, a homeowner in his own home does not have a duty to retreat and may use deadly force to protect himself against an armed intruder. This would be the same for a business owner in his place of business and a truck driver in his own truck.



Reading up on the Castle Doctrine I don't understand how Guyger is able to use it as a defense. All the information I can find states it is YOUR property, nowhere does it state the rule applies if YOU THINK it is yours when in actuality it is not. This stand your ground rule was written for people living in their homes and having the right to fend off intruders, which Guyger was. I'm surprised and dismayed that Guyger could use this as a defense. To me it is a perversion of what this law was meant to accomplish.

It's very concerning. It's basically stating that if she was reasonably mistaken, then the Castle Doctrine applies.

My confidence in this case has deteriorated fast.

 

[gitana1]

I agree, it looks like they are going for all or nothing. Guilty of murder or acquittal. Wow, jury is going to be upset IMO. Could be a hung jury at the conclusion of this deliberation.

Or even an acquittal.

 

[iluvmua]

Thank you.

Oh wow - jury instructions already? Did defense rest - yet?

And THANKS to everyone else!

No, the defense has not rested