TX - Girl, 3, kills sister, 4, with gun, Harris County, 13 Mar 2023

[Soulmagent]

As far as I know, no one is saying the child's intention was to fire it, or that she even knew what one was. I think she just grabbed it with a hand around the trigger, and it went off. It's happened a lot. There was a case while back where a mother and her child, I think two or under in age, were at the shops. They were using a shopping trolley, child and the mother's purse both in the trolley.
The child reached into the purse, grabbed on to the woman's handgun, and it went off, killing the mother. It doesn't take strength, aim, intent, or knowledge of how guns work. Just gripping the wrong place with the force of a toddler's fist.
That's why I believe all firearms should be secured away from children. If a gun owner can't secure a gun away from a child, then they shouldn't have one. The risk is just too great.

MOO

This is completely wrong it takes a certain amount of pressure , like so many pounds of pull back on the the trigger . It is not as easy just touching it wrong. They do not just go off. I have seen shot guns fire off easier and more accident with those than hand guns. I WOULD never purse carry , ever . If you need a gun for protection ,it needs to be on your person because that is the only way you can control it properly . On your person or lock it up .

 

[iamshadow21]

This is completely wrong it takes a certain amount of pressure , like so many pounds of pull back on the the trigger . It is not as easy just touching it wrong. They do not just go off. I have seen shot guns fire off easier and more accident with those than hand guns. I WOULD never purse carry , ever . If you need a gun for protection ,it needs to be on your person because that is the only way you can control it properly . On your person or lock it up .

I don't know what you mean by completely wrong, this case and the one I mentioned both happened. I never said they 'just went off' I said they grabbed it by the trigger with a toddler's strength. I don't know if you've ever tried to get your finger back from a baby, but very young children and infants can grip very hard. It's evolutionary. I'm looking for a link for that specific case, but just for starters, google 'toddler shoots mom' like I just did, and you'll get dozens of cases pop up. It's horrifying.

EDIT: found it.

Mom fatally shot when son, 2, grabs gun from her purse in Walmart | CNN

 

[Soulmagent]

I don't know what you mean by completely wrong, this case and the one I mentioned both happened. I never said they 'just went off' I said they grabbed it by the trigger with a toddler's strength. I don't know if you've ever tried to get your finger back from a baby, but very young children and infants can grip very hard. It's evolutionary. I'm looking for a link for that specific case, but just for starters, google 'toddler shoots mom' like I just did, and you'll get dozens of cases pop up. It's horrifying.

EDIT: found it.

Mom fatally shot when son, 2, grabs gun from her purse in Walmart | CNN

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

“They are painting Veronica as irresponsible, and that is not the case,” he said. “… I brought my son up around guns, and he has extensive experience shooting it. And Veronica had had hand gun classes; they’re both licensed to carry, and this wasn’t just some purse she had thrown her gun into.”

 

[Soulmagent]

I don't know what you mean by completely wrong, this case and the one I mentioned both happened. I never said they 'just went off' I said they grabbed it by the trigger with a toddler's strength. I don't know if you've ever tried to get your finger back from a baby, but very young children and infants can grip very hard. It's evolutionary. I'm looking for a link for that specific case, but just for starters, google 'toddler shoots mom' like I just did, and you'll get dozens of cases pop up. It's horrifying.

EDIT: found it.

Mom fatally shot when son, 2, grabs gun from her purse in Walmart | CNN

The second part of this statement was wrong and is wrong .
"The child reached into the purse, grabbed on to the woman's handgun, and it went off, killing the mother. It doesn't take strength, aim, intent, or knowledge of how guns work. ''

I love the case comparison you brought up . I don't want you to think I am disagreeing for anything other than discussion . I love reading your post.

 

[iamshadow21]

The second part of this statement was wrong and is wrong .
"The child reached into the purse, grabbed on to the woman's handgun, and it went off, killing the mother. It doesn't take strength, aim, intent, or knowledge of how guns work. ''

How would you phrase it, then?

 

[Soulmagent]

I would start with how stating how many pounds of pressure it took to make the gun fire . That would be the required strength (which can be measured) That toddler shot his mom Veronica in the head ,and his family was the type to teach him the knowledge . All these were present in the case you mentioned.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

These poor children. I truly can't understand what people are thinking when they have loaded weapons and children in the same house. IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

I would start with how stating how many pounds of pressure it took to make the gun fire . That would be the required strength (which can be measured) That toddler shot his mom Veronica in the head ,and his family was the type to teach him the knowledge . All these were present in the case you mentioned.

A child that age can't form intent. They're barely seeing themselves as an individual separate from their mother by then.

 

[Stunned]

There were at least 2,070 unintentional shootings by children under 18 years old between 2015 and 2020, resulting in 765 deaths and 1,366 injuries, according to data compiled by Everytown Research & Policy, the research arm of the group that advocates for gun control and against gun violence. About 39% involved a shooter 9 years old or younger, the non-profit said. bbm

”In no other similarly large or wealthy country are firearm deaths in the top 4 causes of mortality let alone the number 1 cause of death among children," a Kaiser Family Foundation study wrote last year.

3-year-old girl killed 4-year-old sister with unsecured firearm, Texas sheriff says

"This basically involves a 3-year-old and a 4-year-old," Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said. "The 3-year-old is the alleged shooter. It appears to be unintentional."

www.wtvr.com

We do love being #1.

 

[Soulmagent]

A child that age can't form intent. They're barely seeing themselves as an individual separate from their mother by then.

They mimic what they see

 

[iamshadow21]

They mimic what they see

That doesn't mean they understand consequences.

I agree. The child in the Walmart case would have seen a gun shot before. Probably even had one placed in his hands, and with adult help, pulled the trigger. That doesn't mean he had a greater understanding of a gun than 'it makes a big bang'.

We keep things out of reach of children under a certain age because they have no understanding of danger. Kitchen knives. Stoves. Medication and chemicals. Breakable items made of substances like glass. Their understanding of why adults say 'no' and 'don't touch' comes over time, as they get much older and their brains develop and they have enough experiential memory to understand WHY it's a bad idea to run with a kitchen knife, to turn on the stove or to climb out the window.

Toddlers are incredibly vulnerable because they're mobile, fast, remarkably strong, curious, and they don't have any concept of danger. Being told 'no' can actually make a forbidden item more attractive. Can make them more determined to get their hands on it. So, we put locks on our kitchen drawers, fridges, and medicine cabinets, baby gates at the top and bottom of staircases. We put things up on top of wardrobes and fridges and cabinets. We buy medication and chemicals that come with child proof lids. We do all these things to help our toddlers survive this stage of development.

MOO

 

[Snoopster]

I live in a different world.
I don't know anyone who has a handgun. I don't know, or know of, anyone who carries a handgun into a store. Therefore I don't know anyone who has a child who could get their hands on a gun, let alone a loaded gun.
Thank goodness. I'm fortunate.

My thoughts are with the family who has lost a child. There couldn't be anything worse...let alone when one child kills another.

 

[Stunned]

I am amazed by the number of people I know that do carry. (I don’t) I appreciate when they tell me, but I am not comfortable with it.

 

[Lilibet]

I live in a different world.
I don't know anyone who has a handgun. I don't know, or know of, anyone who carries a handgun into a store. Therefore I don't know anyone who has a child who could get their hands on a gun, let alone a loaded gun.
Thank goodness. I'm fortunate.

My thoughts are with the family who has lost a child. There couldn't be anything worse...let alone when one child kills another.

I live in that different world too @Snoopster. I can’t imagine what that family must be feeling…it’s a horrible tragedy, and all the more so because it was preventable.

 

[TxLady2]

As far as I know, no one is saying the child's intention was to fire it, or that she even knew what one was. I think she just grabbed it with a hand around the trigger, and it went off. It's happened a lot. There was a case while back where a mother and her child, I think two or under in age, were at the shops. They were using a shopping trolley, child and the mother's purse both in the trolley. The child reached into the purse, grabbed on to the woman's handgun, and it went off, killing the mother. It doesn't take strength, aim, intent, or knowledge of how guns work. Just gripping the wrong place with the force of a toddler's fist.

That's why I believe all firearms should be secured away from children. If a gun owner can't secure a gun away from a child, then they shouldn't have one. The risk is just too great.

MOO

Thanks, I didn't mean that the child had intentions of aiming/shooting the gun. Guess it didn't come out the way I meant it to.
I agree, all guns should be locked up even if there are no children in the house. There have been plenty accidents of adults getting shot while someone was cleaning the gun.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

"It appears to be unintentional " Of course it was unintentional, she is 3 <modsnip>!.
Just another preventable tragedy, right?

It very well could be intentional. All children deserve parents but not all parents deserve children. Why would they let a 3 year old near a gun? Put that gun out of her reach <modsnip>! It was very much preventable if the parents did their job. The fact that a 3 year old knows how to use a gun is awful. I’m glad my parents didn’t get me a gun until I was 12. And I am glad I only use it for hunting. I would never think of killing someone, except for self defense.