TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

  • #441
Governor Greg Abbott has announced that the ongoing special legislative session, which begins July 21, will now include discussions on improving flood alert systems.

"It’s going to be good to have a session for all members working together with different perspectives. Because the reality is this, what is needed in that river basin in that location can be far different across the state," Abbott said.

Harris County State Senator Paul Betancourt spoke with FOX 4 Monday. He took to social media saying he wants to file legislation in the special session to put sirens in flood-prone areas.

"This is just another way to layer in more possibilities of getting people's attention in a natural disaster, because, unfortunately, we're over-relying on this now because we want it to do everything, but there may be times when people ignore it, or they turn it off. So a siren cuts through all that, it goes around this technology and can work with it," Bettencourt said.

Good for Govenor Abbott and the state legislators.

We get tornado warnings by text messages where I live, but the sirens going off get your attention because that means they are much closer and it gets your attention.
 
  • #442
This.

I live in an area that floods in a big way on the regular. We have dams, big ones. They're not proof against flooding. If the rain falls in the catchment and the dam is already full or close to full, they have to spill it or risk the integrity of the dam. If the rain falls in an area that's downstream of the catchment, the dam won't do anything at all.

Dams are more about creating water reservoirs than preventing flooding. And a event of this intensity isn't really preventable anyway.

Nature isn't tame, or tameable. When something big happens, all we can really do is try to get out of its way.

MOO
JMO, I can only partially agree with this. Dams and levees are not fool proof. They can fail or be overwhelmed. However, I live in the Miami Conservancy District in Ohio. All of our dams that I am aware of are used for flood control. They were installed immediately after the Great Flood of 1913 that nearly wiped out the city of Dayton, Ohio and put most of the surrounding areas under water. We don't have major floods in this area anymore. Sure, some roads get flooded but nothing like happened in 1913.
 
  • #443
JMO, I can only partially agree with this. Dams and levees are not fool proof. They can fail or be overwhelmed. However, I live in the Miami Conservancy District in Ohio. All of our dams that I am aware of are used for flood control. They were installed immediately after the Great Flood of 1913 that nearly wiped out the city of Dayton, Ohio and put most of the surrounding areas under water. We don't have major floods in this area anymore. Sure, some roads get flooded but nothing like happened in 1913.
It really depends on the topography of a region. Where I live, and where this crisis happened, based on the land and what it's composed of, I don't think flood proofing via dam is possible.

MOO
 
Last edited:
  • #444
Flood control is about slowing down the water flow in the environment upstream. A lot of infrastructure actually speeds it up, like drains etc. A complete rethink in the way drainage and watercourses work, I think is required to prevent these events.

In Australia we had a significant flash Flood event in Toowoomba. Killed 33 people in 2011. The design of the drainage system contributed to it.
 
  • #445
A young man arriving at his job to take pictures of the flooding acted on instinct. He approached a nearby home that was being engulfed by the waters and yelled for whoever was inside to evacuate. It was a mother, four young children, and a dog. He woke them, got them out and to higher ground as the home was washed away moments later.

Chris Boyer, from the National Association for Search and Rescue, giving a more realistic comment on the recovery process for the missing and the dead.
 
Last edited:
  • #446
  • #447
Another few names. @teeby

Mary Kathryn Jacobe, 8, Camp Mystic
John Burgess, 39, (camping in an RV)
Julia Anderson Burgess, 38, (camping in an RV)
Al Lorio, 66, Ingram
Sally Sample Graves, 91, Kerrville
Reese Manchaca,, Hunt
Mary Grace Baker, 8, Camp Mystic


 
Last edited:
  • #448

How the catastrophic Texas flooding unfolded, in maps and charts​

From the link above

“One gauge along the Guadalupe River, in Kerrville, shows the water levels hit 23.4 feet at 4:45 a.m. Friday morning, about 45 minutes before the warning specific to the town was issued. Water levels in that spot almost certainly crested above 23.4 feet, but the gauge didn’t record data for 3 hours, between 4:45 a.m. and 7:45 a.m. CT, before picking back up its data measurement.”

CNN is doing some good reporting on this. It sounds like they need a new plan that requires constant reporting from those water gauges once water reaches a certain level.

I can also understand the problems inherent in evacuation orders if roads become congested and people become trapped in cars. This is an opportunity for new studies to figure out how to evacuate people safely when risk is high and time is of the essence.
 
  • #449
I’m sorry if this was covered but was the lovely camp mystic truly built on a dry river bed does anyone know?( Geology is the only science I was capable of passing in college and I remember dry river bed floods were astounding.)
 
  • #450
  • #451
  • #452

"A father who lost his life in the tragic floods
had desperately clung to his 'babies'
as the waters ravaged the RV park where his family was vacationing.

John Burgess, 39, was found dead after the deluge swept him away from the RV park with his two young boys.
Their mother was also taken by the floodwaters.

Family members confirmed John's death
and recently announced that his wife, Julia Anderson Burgess, 38,
was also killed in the floods.

Their two young boys - James, 1, and Jack, 5 -
are still missing.

The couple's daughter, Jenna,
was staying at a nearby camp that wasn't impacted by the floods.
She has been found safe but was left to deal with the tragedy.

:(

RIP
 
Last edited:
  • #453
  • #454
I’m sorry if this was covered but was the lovely camp mystic truly built on a dry river bed does anyone know?( Geology is the only science I was capable of passing in college and I remember dry river bed floods were astounding.)
I have never been to Camp Mystic but I live the central TX area with similar terrain. I am no geologist either. Like you I took Geology in college to fulfill my science requirements. The short answer to your question is yes the River bed in that headwater region of the Guadalupe River and feeder creeks is a combination of limestone rock and caliche with a scattering of denser rock and gravel. Probably most of the year much of that River bed is dry. It appears on maps that Camp Mystic had a small dam at the edge of its property and was able to back up water enough to keep a bit in front of the camp. The dam I am sure is 5’ or less in height. The depth of the contained water in July was probably less than 2 foot. On a map the cabins that were swept away appear to have been built on a high edge of the property. It truly must have been a horrific flash flood to have gotten that far out of the banks of the River bed. I believe there was probably considerable flooding coming in from the creek flowing into the Guadalupe from the east. It intersects the Camp along its western edge. Blessings to all affected.
 
  • #455
  • #456
Thank you so much for your hard work, as always!
 
  • #457
Thank you so much for your hard work, as always!

No problem.

I'm aware that most people on here have school, jobs, kids, commitments. I'm on permanent psych disability, my responsibilities are caring for my disabled partner and keeping house for my very active full time working mother, and cleaning up after my three rescue cats. I've got a partial library science qualification and I have a neurodivergent brain that likes chasing rabbits and finding all the things and putting them in order. All this means I have the time and the inclination to follow a dozen liveblogs and google 'texas floods' fifty times a day.

I hope that it's helpful. I hope that it's honouring the victims. I wish I didn't know I'm going to be adding dozens more names to this list before this is over. There are too many kids still missing, too many families where they've only found one of a whole group who got swept away together. But found is always better than forever lost, which is always a possibility with this kind of flooding. I wish all the SAR folks, professionals and volunteers, stout hearts, keen eyes, and good luck. Because that's what it's going to take to bring everyone home.

MOO
 
  • #458
The geologist on the YouTube channel GeoModels does an excellent breakdown of what contributes to flash flooding in the Texas Hill Country along the Guadalupe.

 
  • #459
  • #460
I’m sorry if this was covered but was the lovely camp mystic truly built on a dry river bed does anyone know?
I am thinking.....

Probably for the same reason that pricey housing developments and mansions are built in brush fire areas in CA. Ditto for equivelents in in Hurricane surge zones in say, Florida.

In the end, real estate money goes where there are desirable features. These features can be coastal hills with ocean views in Malibu, Florida beaches, and in the case of Texas...... a historic "River" that would be classified as a "Creek" back east.

But.... in a dry state with very little flowing water, very little interesting terrain next to major metropolitan areas, real estate on the Brazos, the Guadalupe and associated scenic "Hill Country"- some (key word) nice views, but really not scenic by Shenandoah standards can be very desirable.

Likewise, rivers and related water fun can be taken for granted back in the wetter East. But..... in dry Texas, they are rare and a super attractive novelty. Thus, even more temptation to build in close.
 
Last edited:

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
127
Guests online
2,367
Total visitors
2,494

Forum statistics

Threads
633,232
Messages
18,638,391
Members
243,454
Latest member
Pfhanna
Back
Top