TX TX-Hunt, Overnight flooding at Camp Mystic, all girls camp. Unknown number of missing. July 4, 2025

[knla]

Ah, thank you.

Obviously Aidan and Katherine were announced very recently, because I definitely checked both of them about twelve hours ago and there hadn't been any sign they had been found yet in MSM. I can't say about Jayda, I think it had been over a day since I checked for her. Hopefully a lot of the missing I had found mention of over the last week are just waiting on confirmation of identity.

 

[knla]

Aidan Heartfield's body recovered after week-long search following Texas Hill Country flood

Aidan Heartfield's body was found by search teams after being missing for over a week following deadly Texas Hill Country flooding.

www.12newsnow.com

I saw another news article about Aidan earlier in my Facebook feed. Can't find it now.

 

[iamshadow21]

Aidan Heartfield's body recovered after week-long search following Texas Hill Country flood

Aidan Heartfield's body was found by search teams after being missing for over a week following deadly Texas Hill Country flooding.

www.12newsnow.com

I saw another news article about Aidan earlier in my Facebook feed. Can't find it now.

His dad was absolutely dogged in organising hundreds of civilian searchers. I don't know how many bodies they found, but I expect it was a lot. He only stepped back when the job got way too big for him.

He didn't find his son himself, but he helped get a lot of other families closure. I hope he gets support and finds peace, like everyone affected by this.

MOO

 

[legomonster]

My doggo isn't doing too well, so I been away but, please, please be weather aware for this area especially in areas of Texas. Sadly, I think it's overnight again. I can look at models if anyone has any questions and lives in area or around.

https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/excessive_rainfall_outlook_ero.php

 

[K9Enzo]

sorry I still don't understand
did FEMA actually tear down structures?

It’s my understanding that FEMA didn’t tear down any buildings at Camp Mystic (that’s not their role). The camp’s owners appealed to have several cabins removed from the official floodplain maps. That probably allowed them to avoid stricter building codes, flood insurance costs and made it easier to expand. IMO

 

[jesse]

FEMA reports to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Regardless of whoever made the decision, the buck stops with the Secretary, whether Secretary Napolitano or Secretary Noem.

That's preposterous. FEMA hired local experts to determine if adjustment of flood maps is appropriate. Which is how it should be - it should be someone very familiar with the local area.

Noem, on the other hand, required personal sign-off on amounts > $100k (which is pennies in terms of FEMA emergencies), but then "wasn't available" to do that until Monday. Under prior administrations, FEMA leadership could mobilize immediately.

 

[LadyL]

I'm sorry if I snipped that in a confusing way! The article says that FEMA granted an appeal from Camp Mystic to remove their buildings from FEMA's flood plain map:

"Federal regulators repeatedly granted appeals to remove Camp Mystic's buildings from their 100-year flood map, loosening oversight as the camp operated and expanded in a dangerous flood plain in the years before rushing waters swept away children and counselors, a review by The Associated Press found.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency included the prestigious girls' summer camp in a "Special Flood Hazard Area" in its National Flood Insurance map for Kerr County in 2011, which means it was required to have flood insurance and faced tighter regulation on any future construction projects."

it's ok - just all new to me, what FEMA is and flood plains and flood maps etc. - quite frankly I still don't understand what a floodmap is

does it mean that anything on the map is in a dangerous area?

 

[Sundog]

Unlike several other summer camps along that stretch of the river, Mystic was not accredited by the American Camp Association, a national body that maintains standards on camp safety and emergency preparedness.

Camp Mystic Owners’ Legacy: ‘If You’re a Camper, You Know Who They Are’

For decades, Dick and Tweety Eastland presided over Camp Mystic with a kind of magisterial benevolence that alumni well past childhood still describe with awe.

www.nytimes.com

OP stated that Camp Mystic lost their accreditation with ACA, but no link was provided. This article is behind a paywall so I don't know if it answers that question, i.e. did Camp Mystic lose accreditation.

Also, does this article state how many camps in the area sought accreditation and how many did not? Etc. Without that information, not sure how losing or just not seeking accreditation is significant.

 

[Herat]

ok thanks

I in

It’s my understanding that FEMA didn’t tear down any buildings at Camp Mystic (that’s not their role). The camp’s owners appealed to have several cabins removed from the official floodplain maps. That probably allowed them to avoid stricter building codes, flood insurance costs and made it easier to expand. IMO

Yes. Having a building in a designated flood zone greatly increases the cost of building and the insurance, if you can even get flood insurance.

There is an interesting investigative piece on NPR today about how FEMA is not providing accurate flood risk predictions for a variety of reasons. This also occurred in North Carolina with Hurricane Helene's flooding last year. The FEMA maps were very inaccurate, which meant that many occupied buildings such as residences avoided stricter building and site preparation expenses, as well as lowered the need for insurance. There are several private agencies that provide flood zone and flood risk information that were far more accurate than the FEMA maps. They clearly designate the flooded cottages in in Camp Mystic and other areas as being within a flood plain.

The issue is really $$$$, not safety.

It costs money to build a heavier foundation or put your home on piers, to build higher up a slope, to purchase flood insurance if you are in a designated flood area, and all kinds of people have financial incentives in avoiding this - developers, realtors, municipalities and civil planners, and, of course. owners or managers of such properties.

The fact is that the Camp Mystic risk was proven historically to be very real, not just some lines drawn on a map. I do hope that the families of children who attended summer camps in this area can use their influence to get the health and safety of people as a priority and get some legislation to provide truthful and responsible predictive maps and data that will improve safety and security of all those who live in or visit these kinds of areas. I'm really angry to read that FEMA is caught up in this subterfuge of responsibility and that the public has trusted corrupted and manipulated information.

 

[jesse]

OP stated that Camp Mystic lost their accreditation with ACA, but no link was provided. This article is behind a paywall so I don't know if it answers that question, i.e. did Camp Mystic lose accreditation.

Also, does this article state how many camps in the area sought accreditation and how many did not? Etc. Without that information, not sure how losing or just not seeking accreditation is significant.

I don't think this is the original article, but it's not behind a paywall:

Redirect Notice

"The American Camp Association, or ACA, is a nationwide voluntary accreditation program for day and overnight camps across the country. The association said 76 camps operating across Texas are accredited, including eight in Kerr County, but not Camp Mystic. The all-girls Christian summer camp lost more than two dozen campers and counselors after the deadly Independence day flooding on the Guadalupe River. "
"

 

[jesse]

I don't think this is the original article, but it's not behind a paywall:

Redirect Notice

"The American Camp Association, or ACA, is a nationwide voluntary accreditation program for day and overnight camps across the country. The association said 76 camps operating across Texas are accredited, including eight in Kerr County, but not Camp Mystic. The all-girls Christian summer camp lost more than two dozen campers and counselors after the deadly Independence day flooding on the Guadalupe River. "
"

“We have standards specifically around, ‘Do you have an emergency plan, and have you thought through all of your location-specific potential risks around that emergency plan? Have you trained your staff around it, and do you rehearse it before campers get there? And so, what is your communication plan in a crisis? Oftentimes cell services are down, so do you have a backup plan?'” DeHart explained."

 

[jesse]

I in


Yes. Having a building in a designated flood zone greatly increases the cost of building and the insurance, if you can even get flood insurance.

There is an interesting investigative piece on NPR today about how FEMA is not providing accurate flood risk predictions for a variety of reasons. This also occurred in North Carolina with Hurricane Helene's flooding last year. The FEMA maps were very inaccurate, which meant that many occupied buildings such as residences avoided stricter building and site preparation expenses, as well as lowered the need for insurance. There are several private agencies that provide flood zone and flood risk information that were far more accurate than the FEMA maps. They clearly designate the flooded cottages in in Camp Mystic and other areas as being within a flood plane.

The issue is really $$$$, not safety.

It costs money to build a heavier foundation or put your home on piers, to build higher up a slope, to purchase flood insurance if you are in a designated flood area, and all kinds of people have financial incentives in avoiding this - developers, realtors, municipalities and civil planners, and, of course. owners or managers of such properties.

This is exactly right.

The adjusted FEMA maps didn't affect whether the buildings could continue to exist where they were. It means the camp paid lower insurance rates. The insurance companies will probably be digging into that.

 

[Friday Fan]

There's an issue with communicating rain gauges amongst other things!

Those gauges are super important in this particular area.

Downed Weather Balloons and Missing Gauges: What Went Wrong With the Central Texas Floods

Greg Abbott says looking for blame is “loser” talk. An in-depth look suggests multiple compounding failures.

www.texasmonthly.com

 

[Herat]

This is exactly right.

The adjusted FEMA maps didn't affect whether the buildings could continue to exist where they were. It means the camp paid lower insurance rates. The insurance companies will probably be digging into that.

And the corollary of this issue is that if $$$$ is your primary driver in petitioning FEMA to have your property removed from a map of the flood plain, how do you avoid facing the ethics of not providing the safest domiciles to people who you are allowing to be in the flood plain at your money-making venture?

 

[Friday Fan]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I originally had it up, then took it down because I was afraid it would be triggering. I think you can expand it from the thumbnail. It's just a picture of a tremendous amount of debris.

 

[Sundog]

I don't think this is the original article, but it's not behind a paywall:

Redirect Notice

"The American Camp Association, or ACA, is a nationwide voluntary accreditation program for day and overnight camps across the country. The association said 76 camps operating across Texas are accredited, including eight in Kerr County, but not Camp Mystic. The all-girls Christian summer camp lost more than two dozen campers and counselors after the deadly Independence day flooding on the Guadalupe River. "
"

Out of 20,000 camps nationwide, only 2,300 are voluntarily accredited by this organization (the American Camp Association). So only 11.5% of U.S. camps are voluntarily accredited by the American Camp Association. So it is not in any way unusual for Camp Mystic or any other camp not to be accredited by this body. Nationally, 88.5% of campus are not voluntarily accredited by the ACA.

On the othe hand -

Camp Mystic, which is licensed by the state, is a member of the Camping Association for Mutual Progress, or C.A.M.P. The state association said online that its goal is to “raise health and safety standards for all camps.”

In addition -

State inspection reports for Camp Mystic obtained by KXAN investigators show the camp had just finished its annual inspection two days before the deadly flash flood. The Department of State Health Services found the camp had the required emergency plans, including written ones in case of a disaster. The state agency said youth camps are required to have those plans posted clearly in every building and reviews the plans on site during a yearly inspection.

 

[Friday Fan]

And the corollary of this issue is that if $$$$ is your primary driver in petitioning FEMA to have your property removed from a map of the flood plain, how do you avoid facing the ethics of not providing the safest domiciles to people who you are allowing to be in the flood plain at your money-making venture?

Nothing horrific happened until last week. It's camp. It's supposed to be "rugged".
Probably none of the parents knew about this.

 

[Friday Fan]

Out of 20,000 camps nationwide, only 2,300 are voluntarily accredited by this organization (the American Camp Association). So only 11.5% of U.S. camps are voluntarily accredited by the American Camp Association. So it is not in any way unusual for Camp Mystic or any other camp not to be accredited by this body. Nationally, 88.5% of campus are not voluntarily accredited by the ACA.

On the othe hand -

Camp Mystic, which is licensed by the state, is a member of the Camping Association for Mutual Progress, or C.A.M.P. The state association said online that its goal is to “raise health and safety standards for all camps.”

In addition -

State inspection reports for Camp Mystic obtained by KXAN investigators show the camp had just finished its annual inspection two days before the deadly flash flood. The Department of State Health Services found the camp had the required emergency plans, including written ones in case of a disaster. The state agency said youth camps are required to have those plans posted clearly in every building and reviews the plans on site during a yearly inspection.

The state does not maintain copies of those plans. They only visit the site. They are only required to be posted.

We're in a state where nursing homes well, hmmm...have lots of issues. Don't get me started on that.

Five years of inspection reports released to The Associated Press do not offer any details of those plans at Mystic, raising new questions about the camp’s preparedness ahead of the torrential July 4 rainfall in flood-prone Texas Hill Country.

Texas inspectors approved Camp Mystic’s disaster plan 2 days before deadly flood, records show

Texas inspectors approved Camp Mystic’s emergency plan just two days before devastating floods killed over 27 people, mostly children, at the Texas summer camp.

apnews.com

Also, this is the most elite camp in the entire state of Texas? This isn't some podunk thing!

Shouldn't the most elite camp in the state be accredited?


Here are more details about the state's inspection. The article provides all the details.


According to DSHS, youth camps are required to maintain such plans. An agency spokesperson told KXAN it does not maintain copies of those plans, but camps are required to post plans clearly in every building. Written plans are required to include disasters including flooding, and procedures for emergency shelter and for evacuation of each occupied building.

“DSHS reviews the camp’s emergency plans onsite during their annual inspection for the correct elements listed in the Texas Administrative Code,” the DSHS spokesperson added.

Camp Mystic passed state inspection two days before deadly flood

As calls for accountability continue surrounding the deadly flood in Kerr County, state inspection reports show a recent history of safety compliance at a girls’ summer camp that has become the epicenter of national debate since the July 4 tragedy.

www.yahoo.com

 

[angelainwi]

There is an interesting investigative piece on NPR today about how FEMA is not providing accurate flood risk predictions for a variety of reasons. This also occurred in North Carolina with Hurricane Helene's flooding last year. The FEMA maps were very inaccurate, which meant that many occupied buildings such as residences avoided stricter building and site preparation expenses, as well as lowered the need for insurance. There are several private agencies that provide flood zone and flood risk information that were far more accurate than the FEMA maps. They clearly designate the flooded cottages in in Camp Mystic and other areas as being within a flood plain.

The issue is really $$$$, not safety.

Do you have a link by chance? I would love to read or listen to this.

 

[Herat]

Out of 20,000 camps nationwide, only 2,300 are voluntarily accredited by this organization (the American Camp Association). So only 11.5% of U.S. camps are voluntarily accredited by the American Camp Association. So it is not in any way unusual for Camp Mystic or any other camp not to be accredited by this body. Nationally, 88.5% of campus are not voluntarily accredited by the ACA.

On the othe hand -

Camp Mystic, which is licensed by the state, is a member of the Camping Association for Mutual Progress, or C.A.M.P. The state association said online that its goal is to “raise health and safety standards for all camps.”

In addition -

State inspection reports for Camp Mystic obtained by KXAN investigators show the camp had just finished its annual inspection two days before the deadly flash flood. The Department of State Health Services found the camp had the required emergency plans, including written ones in case of a disaster. The state agency said youth camps are required to have those plans posted clearly in every building and reviews the plans on site during a yearly inspection.

So they comply by posting pieces of paper with plans that are worthless because they are not real or tested.

Do they run regular drills? Do they evaluate the results of the drills?

If there is no cell phone reception, how do they communicate with each and every camper or staff member in an emergency, especially if the power is out because of storms? Are there backup generators?

Do they have 24/7 staff that are on some kind of immediate alert phone tree or mandatory alert system to get the proper information and are able to implement immediate action?

It can be quite easy to placate inspectors with the required charts and diagrams but one needs to have an honest assessment of life safety issues and have tested emergency procedures.

Can you imagine a small hospital being allowed to operate like this camp did?