TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 5

[Noway]

From what I read, polygraphs are not done on pregnant women due to possible stress to the baby, for some reason...but not because of the mom. So she should be able to take one soon, I would think...

It wasn't danger to the mom that I was considering, only that the results could be erroneously affected by (for example) her blood pressure rising. It might have had nothing to do with her answers being deceptive, but was due only to her being pregnant and her blood pressure fluctuating.

But I will say that reading about polys is like reading mainstream media articles. A lot of conflicting statements.

 

[LCoastMom]

Joshua today would be a great day to be found - where are you baby boy and who knows?

It is so discouraging to come here hoping for some resolution.

You couldn't be any more precious if you tried.

Where's baby Joshua.

 

[marycarney]

It wasn't danger to the mom that I was considering, only that the results could be erroneously affected by (for example) her blood pressure rising. It might have had nothing to do with her answers being deceptive, but was due only to her being pregnant and her blood pressure fluctuating.

But I will say that reading about polys is like reading mainstream media articles. A lot of conflicting statements.

The reason you don't poly someone in late pregnancy is that they can get a sudden kick in the ribs from the baby, which would cause a reaction totally unrelated to the questioning.

 

[panthera]

Joshua today would be a great day to be found - where are you baby boy and who knows?

It is so discouraging to come here hoping for some resolution.

You couldn't be any more precious if you tried.

Where's baby Joshua.

It truly is heartbreaking to think anyone could be so cruel to harm this precious little boy, or to possibly cover up an accident. He looked so happy in all the pictures which makes it even more of a mystery what happened to him. MOO

 

[Noway]

The reason you don't poly someone in late pregnancy is that they can get a sudden kick in the ribs from the baby, which would cause a reaction totally unrelated to the questioning.

MARK SMITH, POLYGRAPH EXPERT, V.P., NJ POLYGRAPHISTS: Well, there`s no reason a pregnant woman cannot be tested. That`s sort of an old wives` tale. It`s an old way of thinking. There`s nothing scientific or medical that would happen to the woman. There`s nothing that would affect the test. And certainly not for someone who`s already given birth.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/23/ng.02.html

Like I said ... all kinds of conflicting statements. I'd never read anything about a sudden kick in the ribs ... but did read that they might wait until 2nd or 3rd trimester ... in which case the kicks would be possible and stronger.

 

[belimom]

On NG, they had two polygraph experts who said it's against the industry standards to poly a pregnant woman. Maybe in the 1st trimester when there's not any kicking, etc, but after that, a sudden kick or something could skew the results. They both said it's just not usually done.

bbm

JACK TRIMARCO, POLYGRAPH EXPERT (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the short answer to that is we have to go with policy. Most law enforcement agencies will not polygraph a woman after the first trimester. And there`s a good reason for that. Number one, a polygraph is a stressful procedure under any conditions, whether you did it or whether you didn`t do it. Everyone`s nervous and everyone hopes that the examiner is as good as he`s supposed to be, if they`re innocent. And of course, if they did it, they hope the examiner isn`t as good as he`s supposed to be and they don`t want even him to know that they`re the person responsible for the crime.
...............
WOODROW TRIPP, POLYGRAPH EXPERT (via telephone): We don`t, Nancy. And normally, by APA, or American Polygraph Association, standards, it`s not something that`s recommended. It has to be under absolutely extraordinary circumstances. But no, we don`t as a policy and as a rule. You`ve just got too many things going on there. Certainly -- and again, depending on how pregnant the female is, if it`s something that just (INAUDIBLE) in their first trimester, possibly. But pretty much, the standard policy and recommendation is that we do not polygraph pregnant females.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html

 

[MorenoI]

Where are you Joshua? I can't imagine this baby all alone out there

 

[HiHater]

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_416d3bb6-420e-11e0-a735-001cc4c002e0.html?sucess

New article (Rumors hurt Joshua's family, spokeswoman says)...you do have to pay for it; I will not post the entire thing as it is against TOS. I will post a few important things:

“Although Sabrina has asked for immediate polygraph test, investigators have indicated that Sabrina will not be eligible to take the polygraph test in the baby Joshua case for at least 90 days,” she said.

Wow...90 days when baby Joshua is out alone in the cold, cruel world...

“The Davis family continues to seek God’s face for peace until baby Joshua returns home. They have committed their lives to the Lord, and Sabrina and Joshua will be baptized in water in the near future. They are attending Sunday services and mid-week Bible study at their church to build their faith on the Word of God,” Flack said.

This rubs me the wrong way...for some reason, IDK what that reason is...

Additionally, FBI resources have given the investigators a chance to tape interviews with individuals in Houston and in other states, in an effort to understand elements of the perplexing case.

Hmmm....I wonder who these people are? What in particular is "perplexing"?

Authorities have said they have ruled out stranger abduction, based on a range of factors that includes the location, the time of day, the weather and even the statistical probability that something like this would occur, McDonald said.

“The part of him getting out of the residence is still a possibility, but he’s definitely not a two-mile radius and we’re definitely not at a stranger-abduction scenario, so all other possibilities are still on the table,” he said.

So again, I wonder if the friend took him, is it considered abduction or kidnapping? Or neither?

 

[Ellebelle]

They're not calling it a kidnapping/abudction, and don't believe he wandered off so that only leaves a couple of scenarios - accident occuring in or around the house or homicide. Yet everyone except his mother appears to have taken a LDT. :waitasec: MOO

I may have missed something along the way but couldn't it also mean that the child was given to someone?
Also, sorry if this offends anyone, but if this is a biological child of Sabrina, who's saying that Josh is the bio dad? Stuff happens and my mind is really out there on this one but could she and the friend have had something going at one time and that's why she thought the friend took him?
I have nothing to base this on....just throwing out the maybes.

 

[HiHater]

I may have missed something along the way but couldn't it also mean that the child was given to someone?
Also, sorry if this offends anyone, but if this is a biological child of Sabrina, who's saying that Josh is the bio dad? Stuff happens and my mind is really out there on this one but could she and the friend have had something going at one time and that's why she thought the friend took him?
I have nothing to base this on....just throwing out the maybes.

Oh wow, I would have never thought along those lines...things that make ya go hmmm....

 

[MsFacetious]

I think this needs to be repeated...


“Although Sabrina has asked for immediate polygraph test, investigators have indicated that Sabrina will not be eligible to take the polygraph test in the baby Joshua case for at least 90 days,” she said.

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_416d3bb6-420e-11e0-a735-001cc4c002e0.html?sucess

For some reason investigators feel they need to wait 90 days to polygraph her. If they thought that she knew where her son was, I'm pretty sure they would do it before then.

I thought polys measure blood pressure and heart rate ... so when those go up, they affect the poly.

If they don't poly her, they are not doing their jobs. JMO ... she was in the house when he disappeared. She's as suspect as the others.

eta
The polygraph or so-called lie detector measures physiological responses to stress experienced by a subject during the course of an interrogation. The instrument monitors three physiological states: (1) cardio-vascular responses manifested by changes in blood pressure, and pulse rate, (2) galvanic skin resistance which lowers as perspiration increases, and (3) breathing patterns that respond to changes in tension.

http://carbon.ucdenver.edu/~mryder/polygraph_este.html

People have been sent home from a polygraph because they had taken narcotics.

Painkillers some women take after birth, would be a narcotic.

Anxiety medication, impacts your blood pressure/heart rate and would affect the results of a polygraph. Baby missing, just gave birth to another one... I might need some anxiety meds.

Hormones can affect your heart rate as well. I wonder if that is why police want her to wait 90 days to take the polygraph.

But again, if they felt she knew where her baby was... I think they would give it to her. Then just give her another one in 90 days as well. In Texas they don't have an issue giving multiple ones from what we've seen lately.

 

[cluciano63]

I think if LE felt the baby was alive, they would do the LD test now. 90 days seems to imply the worst to me.

 

[panthera]

I think if LE felt the baby was alive, they would do the LD test now. 90 days seems to imply the worst to me.

Since LE appears to have ruled out an abduction, the only option remaining is that Joshua is no longer alive. It is very unlikely he could've wandered into someone else's home, and still be living there without that person notifying LE. MOO

 

[Noway]

Since pain medication could affect the results of the mom's poly, and assuming she is on pain meds (not everyone needs after giving birth), I suppose they are waiting until all traces of medication is gone from her system and not skew the test results.

Personally, I don't think Joshua is alive either.

Waiting 90 days seems to imply that they don't feel time is of the essence ... or maybe they think mom was telling the truth from the get-go. IDK. It's baffling ... what could have happened to that sweet boy.

 

[cluciano63]

If LE doesn't know what happened, how could they know that 90 days won't make a difference? This is so confusing...do they have proof he is dead? If not, time is always of the essence, and we've heard of people taking LD tests when they are on meds. I have taken one, on pain meds. Maybe they don't think she has anything to add, but how can they know?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Polygraphs are already inconsistent. There's no point in giving her one if the results will be even less reliable.

 

[Kat]

I think this needs to be repeated...


“Although Sabrina has asked for immediate polygraph test, investigators have indicated that Sabrina will not be eligible to take the polygraph test in the baby Joshua case for at least 90 days,” she said.

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_416d3bb6-420e-11e0-a735-001cc4c002e0.html?sucess

For some reason investigators feel they need to wait 90 days to polygraph her. If they thought that she knew where her son was, I'm pretty sure they would do it before then.





People have been sent home from a polygraph because they had taken narcotics.

Painkillers some women take after birth, would be a narcotic.

Anxiety medication, impacts your blood pressure/heart rate and would affect the results of a polygraph. Baby missing, just gave birth to another one... I might need some anxiety meds.

Hormones can affect your heart rate as well. I wonder if that is why police want her to wait 90 days to take the polygraph.

But again, if they felt she knew where her baby was... I think they would give it to her. Then just give her another one in 90 days as well. In Texas they don't have an issue giving multiple ones from what we've seen lately.

I can't get that link to provide a full article. For some reason it is asking me to pay to read it.

Since I can't read it can someone tell me who said that she asked to take a poly? Sabrina? An investigator directly quoted? I'm not sure who is being quoted there.

As far as Sabrina knowing or not knowing or having any info or not having any info about Joshua--- her not taking a poly indicates nothing to me either way.

AFAIK, we have another child that disappeared and his pregnant caretaker never has taken a poly. (Hasanni Campbell).

I'm also very curious as to the 90 day hold off. Why 90 days specifically? I've never seen that particular number of days mentioned before as why LE is holding off on polying someone. How odd.

What in the world could be the reason for 90 days?

Even if she had a c-section, a complicated one at that, I can't imagine that she would be on pain meds for 90 days. It has to be something other than that IMHO.

I can't even speculate as to why they haven't given her a poly but I will say that it does not indicate that she is innocent of any knowledge or innocent of any wrongdoing in this particular case of Joshua being missing, to me at least. That is how I process the information.

It really means nothing one way or another JMHO.

all jmho and could change at any given time if we get more info

 

[MsFacetious]

I really think that the 90 days is because of hormones.

That is generally the number they give you about your hormones returning to normal.

I am not sure why they would think the hormones are that important, I don't think they are. That's why I think that they just don't feel it's that urgent. If they thought it was important they would probably polygraph her now. Then do it again later if they felt it was important to make sure the hormones didn't factor in.

Maybe she had high blood pressure at the end of her pregnancy and is on blood pressure meds?

Or has another medical or psychological condition that flares up after giving birth and requires meds for 90 days or so.

I don't know...

 

[Kat]

Sounds good Ms. F.

I also don't think that Joshua's father stating he took the poly 3 times means anything either. FWIW (just throwing that out there).

LE is way too closed lipped about this investigation for my liking. I don't have a problem when they hold back info because it might compromise an investigation but I do think they need to find a balance between that and keeping the public informed. JMHO.

Something tells me that this case might just go cold as an icecube soon, and I hope and pray it's not because LE isn't doing what they should be doing because they don't have to answer to anyone. I see positives in the FL sunshine law and negatives but all in all I see positives in that respect. JMHO.

Not bashing LE there but we've had a couple of cases of missing persons in that particular area of that state and LE's actions can be seen as sort of odd. (julie ann gonzalez has a thread here and she comes to mind first)

Come home soon baby boy.

 

[LCoastMom]

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_416d3bb6-420e-11e0-a735-001cc4c002e0.html?sucess

New article (Rumors hurt Joshua's family, spokeswoman says)...you do have to pay for it; I will not post the entire thing as it is against TOS. I will post a few important things:

Authorities have said they have ruled out stranger abduction, based on a range of factors that includes the location, the time of day, the weather and even the statistical probability that something like this would occur, McDonald said.

“The part of him getting out of the residence is still a possibility, but he’s definitely not a two-mile radius and we’re definitely not at a stranger-abduction scenario, so all other possibilities are still on the table,” he said.

So again, I wonder if the friend took him, is it considered abduction or kidnapping? Or neither?

(respectfully snipped for space)

Since LE appears to have ruled out an abduction, the only option remaining is that Joshua is no longer alive. It is very unlikely he could've wandered into someone else's home, and still be living there without that person notifying LE. MOO

Interesting, have they specifically used this wording in prior statements: "ruled out stranger abduction"? Ruling out only strangers does open up the possibility that he is still alive somewhere.

The statements by LE seem consistent with - they really don't have a clue what happened to this precious baby boy or they are still being intentionally vague. Very frustrating.