TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 5

[HiHater]

Was this from early on? Surely LE does not believe he wandered off by now...

For some reason, LE is programmed to disbelieve in abductions if they are not witnessed in action...regardless of the age of the person. Since searches are necessary either way, why not be pro-active and assume that anything may have happened until clues point one way or another? It is still a lot of work, interviews still have to be done, etc...what good does it do to put it out there that the person wandered away or ran away? It makes it seem as though LE is lazy or uncaring. The only good reason to say that would be a ploy, to prevent a suspect from knowing they are a suspect, in my opinion.

Yeah sorry, it was from early on. I think it's important because mom may have been telling the police "abduction" and they may have discounted that (in error maybe?)

I agree with you though...

 

[justthinkin]

Re BBM - do you recall where you heard anyone had been cleared or had cooperated?

I get what you are saying... but I'm not convinced anyone has been cleared - just like no one has been accused, yet...

I wish LE would come forward with anything factual that we could work with because even their statements are contradictory - unless this was an alien abduction. He didn't wander away, he wasn't abducted, no scent in the yard, the house was searched...

He was/is a flesh and blood child, he didn't just vanish IYKWIM.

They've just put up a bunch of new billboards with Josh's photo and a new $20,000 reward - why if he isn't out-there?

It was in press releases the New Braunfels police chief gave, videos to my best recollection.
I believe it was also followed up in the press.

I would be happy to go back, and see what is still available online. I'm not expecting you to take my word for it. It's just such a hassle for me currently to go back through all the stuff as my computer is on its last legs, and slow as molasses, and if overheated, has to be cooled down before videos will play without distortion.

I know I'm not the only one who remembers this as it has been discussed in this forum. He made very few public statements, and the last one I recall him making was to dispel that the friend who'd been at the house that night was still a suspect or POI, and he seemed, to me, to be irritated that the man was still being accused.

Some of the videos have already been removed, and are no longer accessible, but I will do my best.

 

[HiHater]

It was in press releases the New Braunfels police chief gave, videos to my best recollection.
I believe it was also followed up in the press.

I would be happy to go back, and see what is still available online. I'm not expecting you to take my word for it. It's just such a hassle for me currently to go back through all the stuff as my computer is on its last legs, and slow as molasses, and if overheated, has to be cooled down before videos will play without distortion.

I know I'm not the only one who remembers this as it has been discussed in this forum. He made very few public statements, and the last one I recall him making was to dispel that the friend who'd been at the house that night was still a suspect or POI, and he seemed, to me, to be irritated that the man was still being accused.

Some of the videos have already been removed, and are no longer accessible, but I will do my best.

With all due respect, information that big, in a case like this, would be available on every news site that has covered this case...Yet, I come up empty-handed...

 

[justthinkin]

Please give me some time. I am working on this, and am actually taking this one step farther by arranging a time line of sorts from posts here which link to media, primarily using videos with statements by LE or quotes printed in the press by New Braunfels LE officers, Chief Wilkins, and Lt. Penshorn, and others.
.

There are 5 threads here. This is not a quick undertaking. I have to go back and recheck all the links given in almost every post, list the the post #s, the thread, the page, and the link itself, and any brief, but pertinent quotes by LE.

I have yet to locate the 2nd. time this case appeared on Nancy Grace. I'm not a computer whiz, and I don't read particularly fast either. I am not shirking my responsibility to back up my post either. And would have done so when I made it if it had been an easy thing to do.
But I am doing it now so please bear with me.

It would be nice if we were all on the same page, information wise, and I am going to attempt to put us there via the info on the boards. I recognize that not everyone reads every post, and it would be nice, but I can't say I always do either.

It may be sometime tomorrow before I'm able to locate the info I posted earlier and complete this case progression if you will, but it will be posted! Good thing I'm a night owl.

 

[LCoastMom]

Please give me some time. I am working on this, and am actually taking this one step farther by arranging a time line of sorts from posts here which link to media, primarily using videos with statements by LE or quotes printed in the press by New Braunfels LE officers, Chief Wilkins, and Lt. Penshorn, and others.
.

There are 5 threads here. This is not a quick undertaking. I have to go back and recheck all the links given in almost every post, list the the post #s, the thread, the page, and the link itself, and any brief, but pertinent quotes by LE.

I have yet to locate the 2nd. time this case appeared on Nancy Grace. I'm not a computer whiz, and I don't read particularly fast either. I am not shirking my responsibility to back up my post either. And would have done so when I made it if it had been an easy thing to do.
But I am doing it now so please bear with me.

It would be nice if we were all on the same page, information wise, and I am going to attempt to put us there via the info on the boards. I recognize that not everyone reads every post, and it would be nice, but I can't say I always do either.

It may be sometime tomorrow before I'm able to locate the info I posted earlier and complete this case progression if you will, but it will be posted! Good thing I'm a night owl.

Thank you for attempting to find this. I'm not doubting that you heard it, I just wanted to hear it too.

Would it be quicker to use the media release thread rather than rereading everything?

 

[justthinkin]

Thank you for attempting to find this. I'm not doubting that you heard it, I just wanted to hear it too.

Would it be quicker to use the media release thread rather than rereading everything?

I wish it were that simple, but there are things missing from the Media Thread that appear in other individual posts.

But here ya go. This is a summation of the investigation covered in thread 1, and with added comments or questions by moi.

Post #361 by Texas Mist. Thread 1, Page 15
Those present in home asked to submit to polys--LE not source of this information at this time, LE refused comment on subject. This the first public mention of polys in conjunction with this case.

LE announces parallel criminal investigation, the registered sex offender on the block is cleared by Chief Wilkins.
http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_ab34cc8c-332f-11e0-a386-001cc4c002e0.html
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Post #381 by Texas Mist. Thread 1. Page 16
This is the first coverage from CNN's Nancy Grace on this case. The story is divided into 2 parts , first part, first up on the show. What the mom has to say is very interesting, and the majority of her statements are in part 2, towards the end of the show.

My question, if the mother was in the bedroom, how did she even know when the friend left was the last time the door was opened? Also, why does she immediately panic after 10 minutes of not seeing Joshua? "I jumped up, and ran to the grandfather's room," bypassing the living room, and her husband in it? Now that's weird.

Why? Why would she bypass the living room, and not stop to ask her husband, but go straight to the grandfather's room? Was it because her husband wasn't even in the house at that time?

Pay careful attention to this transcript, and what's being said by the mom. She then changes her story to match her husband's. Not once does she, herself, ever mention hearing the exchange between her husband and Joshua over the father's beanie. This first video on this case by Nancy Grace is very telling.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html
----------------------

Post #386 by MsFacetious Thread 1. Page 16
"And Penshorn reiterated that police detectives have interviewed a number of people throughout the course of this investigation, from the parents, to several people that were at the toddler’s home the night he disappeared... "
http://kgnb.am/news/fbi-and-texas-rangers-join-search-missing-new-braunfels-toddler
----------------------
Post # 396 by Belimom Thread 1 Page 16
Link given is in a quote by TexasMist, the original poster of the link.
From CNN Wire Staff. Lt. Penshorn speaks, plus a statement is made which appears to be given by Lt. Penshorn, but it is not set off in quotes. One individual came in and out of the house between when Benitez last saw the toddler and reported him missing, but that person is not considered a suspect.

There is an accompanying video attached to the page linked which may clear up who said what. I did not watch it due to my computer acting up.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/08/texas.missing.boy/index.html

Note: Please bear with me as I am trying to use statements made only by LE, but in some instances, statements by others reveal where LE is prior to LE announcing where they are in their investigation.
-----------------------------

Post #416 by fhc Thread 1 Page 17
--Advances investigation. With quotes from both Lt. Penshorn and police chief Wilkins.
"NEW BRAUNFELS — The search for missing tot Joshua Davis Jr. intensified and shifted focus Tuesday from a recovery effort to a full-blown investigation.
It began at 2:30 p.m., as a Department of Public Safety helicopter began hovering behind the house, in a mobile home community on the town's far south side."

Note to WSers: Whose house is being concentrated on, the friend's?, the registered SO's, or the family's house? It is clear LE is honing in on the Davis residence from which several items were taken, and sent to the lab. This is not to say they are or were the sole focus, but at that particular time the Davis residence was the primary focus of the parallel criminal investigation.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Mystery-intensifies-1003212.php#ixzz1I3D74moI

-------------------------------

Post #512 by nursebeeme Thread 1 Page 21

"We've interviewed literally everyone associated with this child and of course our primary focus is that he was able to exit the residence and wander off," said New Braunfels PD Lt. Michael Penshorn.
One of those interviews was with a registered sex offender who lives a couple doors down.
"We did make contact with him, conducted some searches as well as with some family members of him, and their residences and vehicles as well," said Penshorn.http://www.kvue.com/news/SEARCH-CONTINUES-FOR-MISSING-TODDLER-115595194.html

---------------------------

That last post may indicate that I am mistaken about it being the friend whose residence and vehicles had been checked, as the above report states it was the RSO's residence and vehicles that were checked. I am still of the belief however, that the friend's residence and vehicles have been checked, so I'm not giving up on finding a report that verifies my statements.

I'm actually enjoying this in a way because it will lay out for everyone, the course of the investigation without someone else having to wade through all the posts.

----------------------------

Post # 555 by momtective Thread 1 Page 23 Here too, the video link is in a quote box originally posted by another sleuther, Dee10.
This is a video of Josh Davis Sr. talking to a reporter. He never looks into the camera while speaking. Hmmm. She asks him if all seven adults were given a polygraph, and he says, "yes," then goes on to talk about his wife wanting to take a polygraph.

This is not the official word from LE that I remember, and am diligently looking for, just something to temporarily quiet all you carnivores here who are ready to chew me up and spit me out. JK! lol. :blowkiss:

http://www.kens5.com/news/local/Missing-toddlers-dad--115595439.html

-----------------------

This concludes my summation of the investigation covered in Thread 1 of the Joshua Davis forum. Summation of thread 2 to follow when I get 'er done.
jt

 

[justthinkin]

I failed to mention my summation is not complete. I have not included the info on the ground/grid search as nothing was gained towards the recovery of Joshua. I also did not include some leads that came to light, and were later discarded by LE.

 

[wfgodot]

Thanks, justhinkin. That's a lot of work. (Which I was thinking about doing, too, but I was too lazy!)

 

[liltexans]

Thanks, justthinkin. This is a helpful recap of Thread 1 and is helping to jog my memory about the early timeline.

I also noticed that JD Sr. never looked into the camera when he was interviewed (at least early on).

 

[CuriousHousewife]

Whoops, just posted on the old thread. Sorry about that. I am just coming back for updates. I can't wrap my mind around this one. Without more info from LE, I just can't figure it out without really implicating the parents.

 

[HiHater]

I wish it were that simple, but there are things missing from the Media Thread that appear in other individual posts.

But here ya go. This is a summation of the investigation covered in thread 1, and with added comments or questions by moi.

Post #361 by Texas Mist. Thread 1, Page 15
Those present in home asked to submit to polys--LE not source of this information at this time, LE refused comment on subject. This the first public

snipped by me for space....

that's so funny, I started one of these type of things too. I wanted to see if I could link up the timeline of media statements to a few things that have been alleged elsewhere...I, too, will add mine when/if I finish. It's a lot of scattered info. Great job!

 

[HiHater]

I know that info on Social Networking sites are not fact...however---what I wonder is if LE has found out who was behind the hoax earlier in this case that said baby Joshua had been found?

In light of a certain person allegedly making a fake Facebook page, the identity of the person behind the earlier hoax could be worth the exploration...

 

[cluciano63]

Did I miss where LE cleared someone, besides saying the RSO was not likely to be involved? I think it would be really interesting if LE did in fact clear anyone, in such a muddled case. How could they do that, unless someone could be proven to be elsewhere while the baby was still in sight?

 

[Kat]

I don't have a timeline or collection of articles for this case here in a folder on my computer as I do sometimes for other cases.

I'm afraid that anyone that is keeping one might want to go ahead and snip out facts and dates from the articles onto a word doc in case the link is broken in the future or the info disappears from the internet.

We lose a lot of info that way on the cases that go on for quite a while. I really hope that Joshua doesn't end up like Hasanni, Patrick, and so many others.

 

[justthinkin]

Did I miss where LE cleared someone, besides saying the RSO was not likely to be involved? I think it would be really interesting if LE did in fact clear anyone, in such a muddled case. How could they do that, unless someone could be proven to be elsewhere while the baby was still in sight?

cluciano.
Post #361, Thread 1 page 15, Chief Wilkins specifically states the RSO has been cleared, and is not connected with this case.



To Everyone:
I do still believe at some point, and maybe I just haven't gotten to it as yet, that the friend was cleared. LE pointing to that indirectly by saying that person is not a suspect is not the same as them saying outright he's been cleared, but so far that is the best I've been able to find. It will appear on the board as part of my summation of thread 2.

For the time being, it looks like I got what was said about the RSO confused, thinking instead it was said about the friend. I am so sorry if that's caused any problems or confusion for anyone.


I'm really dragging through thread 2, so I don't know when I'll finish that one, sometime today. And I won't stop there.

I'm running across confusing statements by LE, particularly Lt. Penshorn. It's like he says too much one day, and then the next day wants to retract it, but only backtracks in his statement.
Ack!
jt

 

[LCoastMom]

SB: There was me, his father, his older brother, his godmother, his two grandparents, his father`s friend and his grandpa`s girlfriend.

SB: We were all in the house. There was nine people in the house. I was sitting on the bed watching "Toy Story" with my baby. He was wandering from our room to the living room where the other family members were when I realized after about 10 minutes that it was unusual my baby hadn`t been back in the room to come get a toy or watch the movie.

I jumped up and I ran to the grandfather`s room where there was another baby that my baby was interested in. And asked if he was in there, when the grandfather`s girlfriend tell me, he hadn`t been in there. So I ran out to the living room and I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby.

We started searching but there was no signs of the baby. I ran up the house and everyone started looking and we called the police about 10 minutes after we realized we had no -- nowhere where we hadn`t found him.

SB: At first I kind of -- honestly, at first, there was a family friend in the house, and that was the last time the door had been opened. And I at first thought like maybe the friend had took him. But the police say there`s no signs of that.

So they said he had been in and out the backdoor, I thought maybe he could slipped -- like walked out the backdoor. But I highly believe that - - I believe that wasn`t the case either. Because when I walked out the back porch, there was ice all over the steps. It was too cold and my baby is real smart, I mean, if -- if it was that cold he would have found a way to come knock on the door, or there would have been signs of him out the backdoor because it was icy.

LT. MICHAEL PENSHORN, NEW BRAUNFELS POLICE DEPT.: Well, in a case like this, obviously we had a number of people, we had seven adults and two children in the residence.

According to the parents, the residence was completely secure. Yet we had a child that one moment he was there, the next minute he was simply gone, he disappeared. And in a situation like this where we know for a fact that at least one of the exterior doors had a faulty lock mechanism.

We did have one person that did leave during this time period that we`re talking about. In all likelihood, the first scenario that we are looking at is that somehow the child was able to exit the house, able to slip out of the residence and basically disappear into the night.

GRACE: But here`s my question, Lieutenant, the mom has just told us the baby couldn`t even turn the doorknob. And since it`s icy and cold outside, even if somebody left, they would have shut the door?

PENSHORN: You would think so, but with this type of situation, though, there is no other possibility or other way that the person would have gotten out. The only other scenario that we may be looking at, and part of what the parents have been saying, is that the child was possibly abducted.

But again we had seven adults that were at this residence with the child inside the residence. If for some reason somebody came and took that child, not only would they have seen the child leave the residence, but they also would have seen somebody come in and take him.

SB: The only way -- there`s only one way that if the baby would have got out the door, there`s only one door, and that would be that the front door had to be open, which like you said, it was cold, there`s no reason for the door to be open. Any little kind of cold breeze, my baby has bad asthma, so we have the doors closed.

The only way he could have got out was the front door, the screen door might not lock -- close properly, and he could find himself and push the door open, but like I said, that door was closed -- that door had been closed all day.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the father says that at about 8:00, he was sitting in a chair, the little boy was behind him, kind of playing with his hat. Trying to pull the hat off his dad`s head because he kind of told him to stop it, the little boy looked at him, smiled.

Originally posted by: justthinkin: My question, (1) if the mother was in the bedroom, how did she even know when the friend left was the last time the door was opened? Also, why does she immediately panic after 10 minutes of not seeing Joshua? "I jumped up, and ran to the grandfather's room," bypassing the living room, and her husband in it? Now that's weird.

(2) Why? Why would she bypass the living room, and not stop to ask her husband, but go straight to the grandfather's room? Was it because her husband wasn't even in the house at that time?

Pay careful attention to this transcript, and what's being said by the mom. She then changes her story to match her husband's.(3) Not once does she, herself, ever mention hearing the exchange between her husband and Joshua over the father's beanie

respectfully snipped

1) SB: At first I kind of -- honestly, at first, there was a family friend in the house, and that was the last time the door had been opened. And I at first thought like maybe the friend had took him. But the police say there`s no signs of that.

So they said he had been in and out the backdoor...

It appears she is basing this on what she was told.

2) I jumped up and I ran to the grandfather`s room where there was another baby that my baby was interested in. And asked if he was in there, when the grandfather`s girlfriend tell me, he hadn`t been in there. So I ran out to the living room and I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby.

This floor plan has bedrooms on either side of the living room - it sounds like the GF's bedroom was nearest to her room so she looked there first, then went to the living room.

3) The hat incident is JD's story - she was in the BR watching Toy Story, there was a TV on in the front room with a BBall game on. She may not have heard the exchange - that IMO doesn't change her story.
_____________

I had missed that the friend supposedly left via the back door. The broken latch is on the front storm door...

I don't like the way Penshorn said "but with this type of situation" & "in a case like this" - in a case like what? It sounds to me they had made some decisions based on something they are not revealing, but those early decisions may have been incorrect...

Thanks for all your hard searching Justthinkin - refreshes some old thoughts on the case.

 

[HiHater]

Yikes! After working on my doc all morning I found this forum: TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels- Missing! Media Links No Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It pretty much has links to all the pertinent info and the time frame in which it happened. DUH...lol

So things that stand out to me/questions I have after reviewing this case yet again:

1. Was the door opened or closed that night? Some reports say it was closed all evening, while other reports say it was open all evening...

2. The parents story is sort of confusing, but I won't go so far as to say it changed. Very early on the parents are saying "abduction" while LE is saying "wander off", but then JD says baby Joshua "may have slipped out after a friend left". IDK if that qualifies as wandering off, or if it implies an abduction after baby Joshua walks out on his own.

3. In some instances, the police don't seem very concrete on ruling out abduction/kidnapping. They use words like "all but ruled out" or "generally ruled out"...Semantics, or otherwise, I can only wish I knew what info precludes them from thinking it's an abduction. Further, if it's not a wander off, not an abduction, or not a kidnapping, very few scenarios are left.

4. This references number 3 a bit, but why would the police call in the Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team, if there's no abduction or no evidence of it? [The FBI says the team can help local police with the possibility of abductions that cross state lines or international lines.]

5. I need to look into this area: Country Ridge Drive and Hunter Road, 12 miles from the boy's house. That was the vicinity of a reported sighting posted Sunday on Facebook, and other articles mention the area was searched 2 times in one week..

6. In reference to the lie detector tests and results, Penshorn refused to comment on this, saying he did not want to reveal too many details about the investigation; Penshorn said he couldn’t elaborate on who had been given lie detector tests or interviewed, but he did say several individuals had been interviewed several times. The last statement was 2/14-2/15. So, I personally, am still not sure one way or the other if the friend was actually tested.

7. The scent of baby J was not picked up outside the yard, but Lt. Penshorn did say “We had some other dogs, from another state prison, come in and hit certain locations." So I'm wondering if they hit locations near the home or what?

Just my thoughts, I wish there was more info being released on this case! Frustrating...

 

[LCoastMom]

cluciano.
Post #361, Thread 1 page 15, Chief Wilkins specifically states the RSO has been cleared, and is not connected with this case.



To Everyone:
I do still believe at some point, and maybe I just haven't gotten to it as yet, that the friend was cleared. LE pointing to that indirectly by saying that person is not a suspect is not the same as them saying outright he's been cleared, but so far that is the best I've been able to find. It will appear on the board as part of my summation of thread 2.

For the time being, it looks like I got what was said about the RSO confused, thinking instead it was said about the friend. I am so sorry if that's caused any problems or confusion for anyone.


I'm really dragging through thread 2, so I don't know when I'll finish that one, sometime today. And I won't stop there.

I'm running across confusing statements by LE, particularly Lt. Penshorn. It's like he says too much one day, and then the next day wants to retract it, but only backtracks in his statement.
Ack!
jt

BBM I agree, I've had a problem with LE's statements in this case too. Conflicting IMO.

 

[HiHater]

SB: There was me, his father, his older brother, his godmother, his two grandparents, his father`s friend and his grandpa`s girlfriend.




respectfully snipped

1) SB: At first I kind of -- honestly, at first, there was a family friend in the house, and that was the last time the door had been opened. And I at first thought like maybe the friend had took him. But the police say there`s no signs of that.

So they said he had been in and out the backdoor...

It appears she is basing this on what she was told.

2) I jumped up and I ran to the grandfather`s room where there was another baby that my baby was interested in. And asked if he was in there, when the grandfather`s girlfriend tell me, he hadn`t been in there. So I ran out to the living room and I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby.

This floor plan has bedrooms on either side of the living room - it sounds like the GF's bedroom was nearest to her room so she looked there first, then went to the living room.

3) The hat incident is JD's story - she was in the BR watching Toy Story, there was a TV on in the front room with a BBall game on. She may not have heard the exchange - that IMO doesn't change her story.
_____________

I had missed that the friend supposedly left via the back door. The broken latch is on the front storm door...

I don't like the way Penshorn said "but with this type of situation" & "in a case like this" - in a case like what? It sounds to me they had made some decisions based on something they are not revealing, but those early decisions may have been incorrect...

Thanks for all your hard searching Justthinkin - refreshes some old thoughts on the case.

Snipped by me
BBM

I am starting to lean this way as well. In looking at the time line, the parents have said abduction consistently, I can't help but think what if the police assumed certain things without giving other things the attention and investigation needed. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I honestly don't think LE is any further with this case than the very first day.