TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Brightchaser47]

Yep and DA says she last saw Rachel at 12:30pm at Minot

Maybe

But she doesn't know what she was wearing.

This I can believe. Not everyone is observant of clothing (I'm not). Rachel might have on something very nondescript. I seriously doubt DA  knew this would be the last time she would ever see her sister, so she really had no reason to pay attention to what Rachel had on.

 

[Brightchaser47]

RSBM.

Maybe after making a phone call, and after the girls returned from the Mall, DA was collecting an enraged TT from his workplace to bring him home, at the time ST was there.

That works if DA's car was parked on the street, or if Rachel moved the Olds, to let DA out. Otherwise, Rachel's car had hers blocked in. Remember, "Rachel was backing out of the driveway, when ST pulled up".
Also, according to this scenario, TT needed a ride, which means he didn't have access to another vehicle.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Police reports make sense to me. On Gordon at 12:00 and on Minot at 12:30.

Yep I figure they were at the A/N after 12:30 and then on to Seminary South.

Scenario #1: This works if the girls "left the mall with someone they trusted", then met with "unfortunate circumstances" (in this scenario, DA is not involved, or she lied on the MP report)

RSBM.

Maybe after making a phone call, and after the girls returned from the Mall, DA was collecting an enraged TT from his workplace to bring him home, at the time ST was there.

Hence why ST saw the girls but not DA.

Scenario #2: This works if the girls made more than one trip to the mall,  or the Olds was planted at the mall lot (in order for DA's, ST's statements and most logical timeline to work).

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm still intrigued by the fact that three polygraphs were administered to TT (and he passed all), while DA's two were questionable. Obviously, investigators were looking  at or  for something in particular, that they were apparently  unable to obtain (in both cases)
Possible reasons for TT's results:
1. He was innocent
2. He was such an emotional wreck, his readings were  seriously off
* if I understand correctly, he could be
guilty, but if he felt justified in what he
did, his readings would not indicate
"guilty" responses
3. He read up on how to pass a polygraph
(kidding)
As for DA, I'll go with 1 or 2
Edited to add: Was either TT or DA someone who could "turn off" or "shut down" in the face of "emotional overload"? They'd both faced major "life stressors"-- him in the form of losses, aloneness. Hers in the form of childhood trauma/abuse.

 

[T rex]

Yes she had TT walking from Benbrook lake to the Bowling Alley in her theory. FW_Cat lived a couple houses down from the Arnolds when she was growing up. IMO her and DA were Besties. You will never hear FW_Cat say anything Bad about DA and she will always defend her in a conversation. If you watch the car pulls at Benbrook Lake you will see FW_Cat sitting on the fence next to DA talking.

If this is true, then while DA has defended TT in public one of her best friends has been bashing on him? Which leads me to the second part of my post.

Three polygraphs could be simply cause of new developments in the case = new, previously unanswered questions to ask. Unless these polygraphs weren't so far apart in time...
OR it could be some local custom to do so many. It's rather unusual considering whats in the coverage of other cases, but maybe it doesn't stood out as much when compared to other cases from Fort Worth?

Maybe DA was saying things to LE implicating TT (whether true or not) and they were just trying to sort it out.

 

[T rex]

Depends on the schedule of the nearby post office where they collected the mail from kiosk. Afternoon load should theoretically ended up in the evening and should be stamped with 23rd. LE would know for sure if they bothered to go and talk to some workers there. It should be not nearly as much doubt about it as there is.

The car was staged ( if it was staged) before about 6:00 pm, on the 23rd. The envelope was postmarked the 24th. At what time did P.O. start postmarking for the next day? Afternoon seems a bit early...

There was probably no one working the kiosk therefore the mail would have went to another location and may well have been processed after midnight. In the event someone was postmarking and canceling mail at the SS kiosk then I'm back to thinking hand back mail could be a real possibility.

 

[beubeubeu]

I'm still intrigued by the fact that three polygraphs were administered to TT (and he passed all), while DA's two were questionable. Obviously, investigators were looking  at or  for something in particular, that they were apparently  unable to obtain (in both cases)
Possible reasons for TT's results:
1. He was innocent
2. He was such an emotional wreck, his readings were  seriously off
* if I understand correctly, he could be
guilty, but if he felt justified in what he
did, his readings would not indicate
"guilty" responses
3. He read up on how to pass a polygraph
(kidding)
As for DA, I'll go with 1 or 2
Edited to add: Was either TT or DA someone who could "turn off" or "shut down" in the face of "emotional overload"? They'd both faced major "life stressors"-- him in the form of losses, aloneness. Hers in the form of childhood trauma/abuse.

Were these polygraphs administered by same set of people?
I'd hope that it isn't something like TT got a guy that tends to almost always deem the examined either lied/tried to cheat or passed and appeared honest vs. DA getting someone who with the slightest doubt deems them inconclusive.
Drug use can affect people in many ways, one of which may be lack of stability needed to go through a polygraph. DA allegedly had such history.
Also, if TT was/is rather simple guy, not very observant, not very trustworthy that could cause him to not have any disturbing info about anything and to keep calmly responding "I don't know" or "no" to most questions. With DA it could go all over the place with test questions even, cause seems like much more likely that she had some self-incriminating or in general, rather risky knowledge about this and that - unrelated to the disappearance itself, but shaking the whole thing and turning it inconclusive.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Were these polygraphs administered by same set of people?
I'd hope that it isn't something like TT got a guy that tends to almost always deem the examined either lied/tried to cheat or passed and appeared honest vs. DA getting someone who with the slightest doubt deems them inconclusive.
Drug use can affect people in many ways, one of which may be lack of stability needed to go through a polygraph. DA allegedly had such history.
Also, if TT was/is rather simple guy, not very observant, not very trustworthy that could cause him to not have any disturbing info about anything and to keep calmly responding "I don't know" or "no" to most questions. With DA it could go all over the place with test questions even, cause seems like much more likely that she had some self-incriminating or in general, rather risky knowledge about this and that - unrelated to the disappearance itself, but shaking the whole thing and turning it inconclusive.

DA married into the family that had the largest lie detector business in Fort Worth at the time in Feb. of 1975. If anybody could pass a test it seems it should be DA. Actually this makes me wonder if DA's family administered TT's lie detector test. He passed one 20 years later which I doubt was that family. It floors me he passed three tests when I never heard of DA passing one and surely he was asked different questions as new theories popped up.

 

[beubeubeu]

If this is true, then while DA has defended TT in public one of her best friends has been bashing on him? Which leads me to the second part of my post.

Being somebody's friend doesn't mean agreeing on everything, including such important stuff. Also different points in time, some new discoveries made, some disagreements or events may cause such split in attitude.

Not impossible that for DA and in her eyes TT was always fair and decent - cause he was, or cause he wanted her to see him like that... in the same time not caring much about the others, so friend saw and knew completely different person and obviously had different views of him. It's not always causing a clash between friends.

Also DA could see TT as being in same situation as she is - if innocent and believing in his innocence in the disappearance she may have good reasons to defend him. While friend may be seeing him through a lense of other stuff that he did and find no reason to defend him no matter what the context is.
It's pretty complex situation with everything in this case, so likely with tensions between people close to it as well.

 

[beubeubeu]

DA married into the family that had the largest lie detector business in Fort Worth at the time in Feb. of 1975. If anybody could pass a test it seems it should be DA. Actually this makes me wonder if DA's family administered TT's lie detector test. He passed one 20 years later which I doubt was that family. It floors me he passed three tests when I never heard of DA passing one and surely he was asked different questions as new theories popped up.

But how many lie detector businesses could possibly exist in Fort Worth at the time?

 

[FW_Froggy]

But how many lie detector businesses could possibly exist in Fort Worth at the time?

I have no idea Fort Worth was a Big city. I just know the one DA married into did most of the Big Companies lie detectors to get a job like Kroger. I took one at that company to get a job at Kroger in the 60's.

 

[FW_Froggy]

On the subject of lie detectors I remember RA saying that CA never took a lie detector. I wonder if anybody else took a lie detector other than TT and DA.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If this is true, then while DA has defended TT in public one of her best friends has been bashing on him? Which leads me to the second part of my post.

Maybe DA was saying things to LE implicating TT (whether true or not)

It doesn't make sense for her to outwardly defend him, while throwing him under the bus with LE...

and they were just trying to sort it out.

I'll buy that.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Deleted by me

 

[Brightchaser47]

On the subject of lie detectors I remember RA saying that CA never took a lie detector.

Why would CA be given a polygraph? Everyone was led to believe he was at "Death's Door" when this happened, and six months later, he was gone.

I wonder if anybody else took a lie detector other than TT and DA.

I don't think we'd be here, if they had. I'm beginning to think they're just a diversion (like that darn letter), in the sense that they seem to keep us chasing our tails.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If TT had been convicted of a serious crime, he'd have done jail time. That would mean
1. Transmission business in serious jeopardy
2. Possibly no inheritance
3. Loss of assets
So, three questions:
1. What would've been the jail time for involuntary manslaughter (if the girls had been killed accidentally)?
2. Would TT have been willing/able to hurt Rachel, if he knew she was pregnant?
3. Would A family have "advised" or "helped" TT with "cover-up" of the girls' disappearance (if it were accidental)?

 

[beubeubeu]

I have no idea Fort Worth was a Big city. I just know the one DA married into did most of the Big Companies lie detectors to get a job like Kroger. I took one at that company to get a job at Kroger in the 60's.

It always sounded absolutely bizarre for me - that she married into one of the biggest lie detector business families in Fort Worth. Cause it clearly implies that there were more families who owned lie detector businesses in Fort Worth: some as relevant as the one she married into, some less.
How many of these could be needed in the general area? Was Fort Worth the top or only location where they were made or did every larger city had multiple polygraph businesses?

Sorry for getting into it so much, but I can't help but wonder if that info is accurate that Fort Worth had multiple polygraph businesses.
That info itself makes DA look very suspicious, cause dear hell what are the odds that from all the guys she married one related to polygraph business with polygraphs ending up playing such a big part of her life cause of the events that preceeded that marriage.

Is that somebody's exaggeration and DA actually married the member of the only lie detector families in Fort Worth, and it got stated like that to downplay that fact a bit?
Or it isn't and in the city of 400.000 people there was at least a few or many families in that business, making it not so hard to date a guy who's related to one of these?

If Fort Worth was indeed so big in the polygraph business, having multiple local families in the business, doesn't that kinda make everyone there a bit suspicious?
Unless she just found them in phone book and randomly showed up at this door, charming as hell and ready to get engaged and appeared so irresistible that he just did it... her sister just went missing, her father was dying, her family in deep financial trouble, I can see her eager to get married and get some sense of stability or even imagine devillish scheamy D. setting her eyes on the guy related to polygraphs to not cause suspicion while chatting about them on the daily basis to learn as much as she could about them and pass it while lying (which didn't work but whatever) but I wonder about circumstances.

Did she met him as she got polygraphed herself and it kinda started from there? If so, then she may not be the only one who got close to someone in the polygraph business, maybe other family members or suspected criminals also had it pretty easy to get friendly with these people?
Or did she somewhat knew him before but started dating later... If so, how did she met him? Maybe through somebody elses connections. Maybe she wasn't the only one who got/was close to polygraph business but just the one who couldn't get it right?

What I mean by all that, is that she got exposed, and being married into the family isn't the best way to disguise such connection. Maybe someone did it better.

 

[beubeubeu]

It doesn't make sense for her to outwardly defend him, while throwing him under the bus with LE...

How did she threw him under the bus with LE?

 

[Brightchaser47]

How did she threw him under the bus with LE?

Maybe DA was saying things to LE implicating TT (whether true or not) and they were just trying to sort it out.

I don't know DA, but she could've been trying to throw suspicion in TT's direction, and away from herself, for a number of reasons.
1. TT  could be guilty/involved, but DA doesn't want to "stir the pot" publicly.
2. She could be afraid of him, at this point, whether she was involved, or knows something, or not-- maybe she just doesn't trust him anymore.
3. Maybe she's involved or knows something, and doesn't want "to hang alone".

 

[Valiant]

There’s a reason polygraphs aren’t allowed in court. Taking, passing, and failing these tests are given way too much weight for something that is mostly fake science.