TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[beubeubeu]

The only reason I can think of that TT would suspect DA's ex-boyfriend is that Rachel must have known him. In fact I'll go a step more and say she must have had some kind of dealings with him or connections to him. Is there a pattern here? I'm wondering if the whole Melvin story is just some kind of allegory of their lives. JMO.

Well, sometime ago someone here asked if DA and Rachel looked alike. And the reply they got was: no, not at all. I believed that, so never really thought about it.
And recently I saw a picture of young DA. IMO she looks like Rachel's twin. If not for the different hair colour she would look more like Rachel than Rachel herself in some pics.

Maybe it wasn't like that in life, and possibly different height, mimic or voice made them appear very different, but since I saw DA, I wouldn't exclude a possibility that something crazy could happen with DA's ex especially if he didn't knew Rachel, saw her and thought that must be DA.

 

[beubeubeu]

I keep wondering about that widely repeated story with DA being jealous of Rachel since their young years.
So far I don't have a clue what she could be so jealous about. I thought that maybe her looks, but nope, DA had that. No mention that Rachel was spared from abuse at home. Then what?
DA is portrayed as some kind of local Siren, able to charm any male of her choice, and it kinda seems like she proved well that she could. So many boyfriends. Rich social life. Friends. Allegedly very profitable job, independence, ability to get married with some local wealthy man in a matter of weeks just cause his family business seemed convenient to her - and on the other hand she's shomehow jealous of Rachel. Like... what Rachel had that a girl like that could be jealous about? TT does not sound like a catch no matter how much he had in that inheritance. Babysitting other girl's kid and being married to a guy the Siren dropped before.
Then what. What to be jealous about?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Well, sometime ago someone here asked if DA and Rachel looked alike. And the reply they got was: no, not at all.

FWIW, there were a couple of people who asked about that, and I was one of them. I remember, because it was my very first post on here.

I believed that, so never really thought about it.
And recently I saw a picture of young DA.

From what I've understood, pictures of young DA are rare.

Maybe it wasn't like that in life, and possibly different height, mimic or voice made them appear very different, but since I saw DA, I wouldn't exclude a possibility that something crazy could happen with DA's ex especially if he didn't knew Rachel, saw her and thought that must be DA.

Which is  exactly what I wondered-- with that first post.

 

[beubeubeu]

Another picture I saw was CA. Couple years prior to his passing apparently.
With that I'd buy that part of DA's story when she says that CA wasn't driving.
Cause yeah, sure, he looks pretty okay in these shots from the search, and on one other picture from Spring of 1975. But he's rather thin guy there. He looked completelty different few years earlier. Had significantly more weight on him. Comparing one to the other and it appears pretty likely that despite of being able to do some things on good days, he may be not always in shape to drive TT back and forth.
Not to mention that if he did, he should be able to tell exactly who and what cars he saw at Minot. Why not state that if it'd just add more crediblity to their narrative?

But if we will consider what we have as DA's story about her day as false, that mess slightly shrinks. It doesn't make it any clearer in the long run, but let's say:
Little ST was at Minot, Rachel was supposed to babysit him but since she wanted to go shopping she left him with DA to pick up Renee and get some help with him.
No staying in bed, no sleeping late, possibly DA wanted to go somewhere - so when ST showed up there were no other cars, just Rachel's, cause DA already left.
And then she haven't came back home till afternoon.

But it doesn't explain much really. That way ST's statement can be completely accurate.
But no cars in the driveway would indicate that house was empty apart from those in the living room (so Rachel, Renee, Julie, ST and little ST). Yet it sounds like it caught ST attention that Rachel turned the volume of the radio up while gathering the kid's stuff - that would suggest that it was less like random "oh, let's hear that awesome song they're playing, I love it!" and bit more like maybe letting someone else in there know that there are visitors. Which would make sense if she was suspecting that DA may be in a room with one of her boyfriends... but why would she think that if there were no other cars, while DA had one. And the boyfriend would have to get there somehow.
Unless maybe boyfriends were parking bit farther away to not block their driveway and possibly TT took DA's car for work?

But it was 12:30. And LE seems to be prety damn confident that they made it to the mall and were there past that time. So it doesn't seem like anything happened there, at least not yet.

And the gift for little ST is still in the car. IN the car. It should not, absolutely not be IN the car, if the girl were heading back to Minot to pick up little ST. It should be in the trunk, or covered with a coat, anything. Not just lying there, nicely wrapped.

Neither DA or FA needed any excuses to explain Oldsmobile's presence on their driveway if it's true that their neighbours (same ones who allegedly provided such a shocking info about Melvin and also whitnesses FA around home for whole day) had a daughter that was friends with Renee and Rachel and stayed home last minute.
If such a girl existed, I'm not certain.

That romance between RA and TT also sounds kinda... eh.
I mean, in general, maybe. But if she had one with her, another just ready to come, some exes hoping for reconciliation. That doesn't sound like a time to fool around with brother-in-law, cause damn, how busy can this girl be?

I can't brush off that feeling that the answer for what really happened is in plain sight, and somehow was, since the beginning.

 

[Brightchaser47]

But if we will consider what we have as DA's story about her day as false, that mess slightly shrinks. It doesn't make it any clearer in the long run, but let's say:
Little ST was at Minot, Rachel was supposed to babysit him but since she wanted to go shopping she left him with DA to pick up Renee and get some help with him.
No staying in bed, no sleeping late, possibly DA wanted to go somewhere - so when ST showed up there were no other cars, just Rachel's, cause DA already left.
And then she haven't came back home till afternoon.

But it doesn't explain much really. That way ST's statement can be completely accurate.
But no cars in the driveway would indicate that house was empty apart from those in the living room (so Rachel, Renee, Julie, ST and little ST). Yet it sounds like it caught ST attention that Rachel turned the volume of the radio up while gathering the kid's stuff - that would suggest that it was less like random "oh, let's hear that awesome song they're playing, I love it!" and bit more like maybe letting someone else in there know that there are visitors. Which would make sense if she was suspecting that DA may be in a room with one of her boyfriends...

I've kinda wondered that, as well. If turning up the music (if that was true)was Rachel's way of covering "noise" from another room. It could've been either "bedroom" noise or fighting, IMO. Otherwise, it seems a little odd that Rachel would do that.

but why would she think that if there were no other cars, while DA had one. And the boyfriend would have to get there somehow.
Unless maybe boyfriends were parking bit farther away to not block their driveway and possibly TT took DA's car for work?

Remember, SM was supposedly there. TT supposedly told DJ that  SM's car was there, when he left for work.  If that's true, where was  SM parked? In or near the garage? The garage was behind the house. ST may not have seen it, if she only got as far as entering the driveway.

But it was 12:30. And LE seems to be prety damn confident that they made it to the mall and were there past that time.

I'm guessing the negatives from the photo booth at (Murphy's?) confirmed that.

I can't brush off that feeling that the answer for what really happened is in plain sight, and somehow was, since the beginning.

I agree. When we figure it out, we'll wonder why it took so long...

 

[T rex]

View attachment 404318

Another picture I saw was CA. Couple years prior to his passing apparently.
With that I'd buy that part of DA's story when she says that CA wasn't driving.
Cause yeah, sure, he looks pretty okay in these shots from the search, and on one other picture from Spring of 1975. But he's rather thin guy there. He looked completelty different few years earlier. Had significantly more weight on him. Comparing one to the other and it appears pretty likely that despite of being able to do some things on good days, he may be not always in shape to drive TT back and forth.
Not to mention that if he did, he should be able to tell exactly who and what cars he saw at Minot. Why not state that if it'd just add more crediblity to their narrative?

But if we will consider what we have as DA's story about her day as false, that mess slightly shrinks. It doesn't make it any clearer in the long run, but let's say:
Little ST was at Minot, Rachel was supposed to babysit him but since she wanted to go shopping she left him with DA to pick up Renee and get some help with him.
No staying in bed, no sleeping late, possibly DA wanted to go somewhere - so when ST showed up there were no other cars, just Rachel's, cause DA already left.
And then she haven't came back home till afternoon.

But it doesn't explain much really. That way ST's statement can be completely accurate.
But no cars in the driveway would indicate that house was empty apart from those in the living room (so Rachel, Renee, Julie, ST and little ST). Yet it sounds like it caught ST attention that Rachel turned the volume of the radio up while gathering the kid's stuff - that would suggest that it was less like random "oh, let's hear that awesome song they're playing, I love it!" and bit more like maybe letting someone else in there know that there are visitors. Which would make sense if she was suspecting that DA may be in a room with one of her boyfriends... but why would she think that if there were no other cars, while DA had one. And the boyfriend would have to get there somehow.
Unless maybe boyfriends were parking bit farther away to not block their driveway and possibly TT took DA's car for work?

But it was 12:30. And LE seems to be prety damn confident that they made it to the mall and were there past that time. So it doesn't seem like anything happened there, at least not yet.

And the gift for little ST is still in the car. IN the car. It should not, absolutely not be IN the car, if the girl were heading back to Minot to pick up little ST. It should be in the trunk, or covered with a coat, anything. Not just lying there, nicely wrapped.

Neither DA or FA needed any excuses to explain Oldsmobile's presence on their driveway if it's true that their neighbours (same ones who allegedly provided such a shocking info about Melvin and also whitnesses FA around home for whole day) had a daughter that was friends with Renee and Rachel and stayed home last minute.
If such a girl existed, I'm not certain.

That romance between RA and TT also sounds kinda... eh.
I mean, in general, maybe. But if she had one with her, another just ready to come, some exes hoping for reconciliation. That doesn't sound like a time to fool around with brother-in-law, cause damn, how busy can this girl be?

I can't brush off that feeling that the answer for what really happened is in plain sight, and somehow was, since the beginning.

In this picture you provided you can see that cars around back would not be visible until you turned the corner of the house. Now in ST's account Rachel was backing out of the driveway when she pulled in and they both pulled up and got out. So you can see how it's possible that ST never saw any other cars because she never went around there.

 

[T rex]

Remember, SM was supposedly there. TT supposedly told DJ that  SM's car was there, when he left for work.  If that's true, where was  SM parked? In or near the garage? The garage was behind the house. ST may not have seen it, if she only got as far as entering the driveway.

Yep, I was thinking the same thing at the same time. It looks like the kind of driveway that you would turn around in back and pull straight out so I don't know if it's odd that Rachel was backing up or not. Maybe an indication that there were cars around back and she didn't have room to turn around?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I keep wondering about that widely repeated story with DA being jealous of Rachel since their young years.
So far I don't have a clue what she could be so jealous about. I thought that maybe her looks, but nope, DA had that. No mention that Rachel was spared from abuse at home. Then what?
DA is portrayed as some kind of local Siren, able to charm any male of her choice, and it kinda seems like she proved well that she could. So many boyfriends. Rich social life. Friends. Allegedly very profitable job, independence, ability to get married with some local wealthy man in a matter of weeks just cause his family business seemed convenient to her - and on the other hand she's shomehow jealous of Rachel. Like... what Rachel had that a girl like that could be jealous about? TT does not sound like a catch no matter how much he had in that inheritance. Babysitting other girl's kid and being married to a guy the Siren dropped before.
Then what. What to be jealous about?

Maybe it's just another part of the narrative that fits into the "love triangle" theory.

 

[Brightchaser47]

But it doesn't explain much really. That way ST's statement can be completely accurate.
But no cars in the driveway would indicate that house was empty apart from those in the living room (so Rachel, Renee, Julie, ST and little ST). Yet it sounds like it caught ST attention that Rachel turned the volume of the radio up while gathering the kid's stuff - that would suggest that it was less like random "oh, let's hear that awesome song they're playing, I love it!" and bit more like maybe letting someone else in there know that there are visitors. Which would make sense if she was suspecting that DA may be in a room with one of her boyfriends... but why would she think that if there were no other cars, while DA had one. And the boyfriend would have to get there somehow.
Unless maybe boyfriends were parking bit farther away to not block their driveway and possibly TT took DA's car for work?

But it was 12:30. And LE seems to be prety damn confident that they made it to the mall and were there past that time. So it doesn't seem like anything happened there, at least not yet.

In this picture you provided you can see that cars around back would not be visible until you turned the corner of the house. Now in ST's account Rachel was backing out of the driveway when she pulled in and they both pulled up and got out. So you can see how it's possible that ST never saw any other cars because she never went around there.

This much of ST's statement I can believe (at this point), but unless she was  also bowling that night (which contradicts what we've been told), we need an explanation as to why Shawn was at the bowling alley.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Couple days ago someone was asking about the age of the guy who it is alleged raped RT in a park. Sorry I can't find the post right now.
I went back over DJ's notes ( which is where the story seemed to come from) and he says the rape was by a white man called John aged 40 - 50 who drove an old pick up truck. He then claims RT had an abortion not long after. He also claims friends of RT say she was meeting a man called John after school on a regular basis. ( similar to the melvin story) DJ doesn't say if it is the same John, but I have took it to mean DJ is implying RT was meeting this older man and things went wrong.
I personally take everything DJ says with caution as little can ever be verified, but this is what he claimed.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Couple days ago someone was asking about the age of the guy who it is alleged raped RT in a park. Sorry I can't find the post right now.
I went back over DJ's notes ( which is where the story seemed to come from) and he says the rape was by a white man called John aged 40 - 50 who drove an old pick up truck. He then claims RT had an abortion not long after. He also claims friends of RT say she was meeting a man called John after school on a regular basis. ( similar to the melvin story) DJ doesn't say if it is the same John, but I have took it to mean DJ is implying RT was meeting this older man and things went wrong.
I personally take everything DJ says with caution as little can ever be verified, but this is what he claimed.

Following that, I have questions:
1. Where does the neighbor guy fit in as a source?
2. Did P.I.'s have  legal access to medical records?
3. Could FA have taken this  alleged unfortunate incident with "John" and tried to "romanticize" it into the story of "Preacher Melvin", to make it seem less traumatic? That would explain the weirdness of  her story, and why her notes about it look like they do.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I personally take everything DJ says with caution as little can ever be verified, but this is what he claimed.

So do I. I  really question his methods (and motives). But it occurs to me that one reason  why his info is rarely 'verified', is because maybe his sources would only reveal what they knew, on condition of anonymity. Granted, it makes  our task more difficult, but it was probably the best (if not  only) way for DJ (or JS) to gather info about the girls' disappearance.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Following that, I have questions:
1. Where does the neighbor guy fit in as a source?
2. Did P.I.'s have  legal access to medical records?
3. Could FA have taken this  alleged unfortunate incident with "John" and tried to "romanticize" it into the story of "Preacher Melvin", to make it seem less traumatic? That would explain the weirdness of  her story, and why her notes about it look like they do.

1, I have no idea. Until recently I was under the impression DJ claimed to have been given the info by a family member of RT.
2,I very much doubt it!
3, Anything is possible I guess.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I can't brush off that feeling that the answer for what really happened is in plain sight, and somehow was, since the beginning.

Yes, I think the answer lies in the house on Minot Ave as opposed to the Mall. Something major happened there that afternoon and three girls have been missing ever since.

I strongly believe at least some of the people who was supposedly there that day are lying about their movements and are being economical with the truth.

I don't like having to pick and choose evidence, but in this case I feel you have to as there is so much misdirection and rabbit holes. I do think all three girls were there at some time around 12.30pm but then what happened next ????

 

[T rex]

I've kinda wondered that, as well. If turning up the music (if that was true)was Rachel's way of covering "noise" from another room. It could've been either "bedroom" noise or fighting, IMO. Otherwise, it seems a little odd that Rachel would do that.

I doubt it would have been fighting. Why choose this time to pick a fight? Maybe Rachel went in to tell DA to stay put because for some reason they didn't want ST to know she was there or it was to keep some other conversation from being overheard. Maybe Rachel wanted to discuss a change in plans because she was no longer going to have the boy.

This much of ST's statement I can believe (at this point), but unless she was  also bowling that night (which contradicts what we've been told), we need an explanation as to why Shawn was at the bowling alley.

This should be known one way or the other, there's just too many witnesses at a bowling alley. Most people wouldn't even try to lie about it. If I had to choose between one of these accounts I would go with the one at Minot. If they had the boy on the 23rd and it didn't happen like ST said it did then how did it happen and why did she lie? This is very important in my opinion.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I doubt it would have been fighting. Why choose this time to pick a fight? Maybe Rachel went in to tell DA to stay put because for some reason they didn't want ST to know she was there or it was to keep some other conversation from being overheard.

Someone on here mentioned earlier that perhaps DA was the cause of TT and ST getting divorced. If there's any truth in it, that would make sense.
Had ST and TT lived in that house when they were married? It's been implied TT never really "left home".

This should be known one way or the other, there's just too many witnesses at a bowling alley. Most people wouldn't even try to lie about it. If I had to choose between one of these accounts I would go with the one at Minot. If they had the boy on the 23rd and it didn't happen like ST said it did then how did it happen and why did she lie? This is very important in my opinion.

Agreed.

 

[beubeubeu]

Couple days ago someone was asking about the age of the guy who it is alleged raped RT in a park. Sorry I can't find the post right now.
I went back over DJ's notes ( which is where the story seemed to come from) and he says the rape was by a white man called John aged 40 - 50 who drove an old pick up truck. He then claims RT had an abortion not long after. He also claims friends of RT say she was meeting a man called John after school on a regular basis. ( similar to the melvin story) DJ doesn't say if it is the same John, but I have took it to mean DJ is implying RT was meeting this older man and things went wrong.
I personally take everything DJ says with caution as little can ever be verified, but this is what he claimed.

He was driving old pick up truck in the Park and introduced himself before assault?
Or was she meeting him after school willingly but instead of taking her home he decided to attack her in the Park?
And right after that, she just did it all over again, with yet another creep. Sure.

Well... any chance that Rachel's grandpa picked her up from school sometime?
This sounds like a complete storytelling. Some scarps of info here and there that don't fit together but were smashed into one ridiculous story.

Following that, I have questions:
1. Where does the neighbor guy fit in as a source?
2. Did P.I.'s have  legal access to medical records?
3. Could FA have taken this  alleged unfortunate incident with "John" and tried to "romanticize" it into the story of "Preacher Melvin", to make it seem less traumatic? That would explain the weirdness of  her story, and why her notes about it look like they do.

1. Nowhere. He allegedly sold them some info about Melvin meeting Rachel after school as she was 16ish. "John" is a story about two years prior.
2. Could be no medical records about that abortion.
3. I'd say absolutely not. If she would be the one responsible for the story, it'd get much more complex in no time, changed a bit here and there and was as chaotic as her other stories are as she seems to be relying on her memories. Having strange but coherent, detailed and consistent page with info about Melvin can be IMO explained only by having someone else responsible for the narrative and the way it was put together. Could be as "innocent" as her brainstorming with assistance from someone who remembered those things better than her (certainly not DA thou) at the time she was making these notes... or not innocent at all.

 

[beubeubeu]

So do I. I  really question his methods (and motives). But it occurs to me that one reason  why his info is rarely 'verified', is because maybe his sources would only reveal what they knew, on condition of anonymity. Granted, it makes  our task more difficult, but it was probably the best (if not  only) way for DJ (or JS) to gather info about the girls' disappearance.

Another explanation is something to the accord of:

Investigator: Tell me everything you know.
Schoolmate: But I really don't know anything.
I: You may know something without even realising it, come on, try to recall something. Everything may be important.
S: We weren't even that close.
I: Listen, those girls are missing, they may be held hostage somewhere, or murdered, and you may know something of importance. Think, please!
S: Okay. So maybe once I heard that... oh wait, once I saw this older guy picking her up.

Anonimity is sometimes as you said, caused by reluctance of being publicly named.
But majority of anonymous sources are anonymous cause if he'd put names to that sources he'd get dozen of people close to Rachel confused and unsure who are these people.

 

[beubeubeu]

I strongly believe at least some of the people who was supposedly there that day are lying about their movements and are being economical with the truth.

Oh, they're all lying about something.
That's pretty much 100% certain - at least considering what is publicly or allegedly known as their statements.
The reasoning behind it may be not related to the disappearance, but not one of them is offering consistent story.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Another explanation is something to the accord of:

Investigator: Tell me everything you know.
Schoolmate: But I really don't know anything.
I: You may know something without even realising it, come on, try to recall something. Everything may be important.
S: We weren't even that close.
I: Listen, those girls are missing, they may be held hostage somewhere, or murdered, and you may know something of importance. Think, please!
S: Okay. So maybe once I heard that... oh wait, once I saw this older guy picking her up.

That explains a pick-up, but what about the alleged rape, pregnancy, and abortion? Her mother and sister made that claim, and  why in the world would they make  that up? What would be the point?

Anonimity is sometimes as you said, caused by reluctance of being publicly named.
But majority of anonymous sources are anonymous cause if he'd put names to that sources he'd get dozen of people close to Rachel confused and unsure who are these people.

Maybe.