TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

Those girls have to be somewhere for 48 years Unless they were cremated and in that case it'd be Game Over.

IMO, they are somewhere where they could still be located. If they were "cremated", there would be no need for all the misdirection and theatrics over the years. I believe someone felt it was all necessary to divert attention away from certain people and places. Again, JMO.

 

[Valiant]

JMO, for him to let his land be used for burial, he would either have to have been heavily involved himself in the girls disappearance, or very close to someone else who was involved.

I couldn't really see him or anyone else letting their land be used after for example a 'TT in a fit of rage' scenario. Again JMO.

There is also the possibility the land was used without the brother's knowledge.

 

[Brightchaser47]

There is also the possibility the land was used without the brother's knowledge.

That is very possible. If the brother (or someone in his household) became aware of things after the fact, that would explain the apparent hostilities and secrecies between family members (IMO).

 

[beubeubeu]

It may all be useless but I like how taking a break from thinking about the case gives me "how could I never thought about it?" moments.

Aren't we all putting bit too much weight on the fact that JM (Julie's sister) went to hypnotist and stated that she won't publicaly reveal what did she learned during that session?
Cause I don't know, maybe others have much better info, but what kind of hypnotist we're talking about here?
Cause hypnosis is not exactly science, and a LOT depends on the hypnotist. It's controversial itself even with the most reputable professionalls in the field, while in reality any mumbo-jumbo fortune-teller wannabe can make their way into this business since it's not regulated well (if at all and was even less so in the past).

So... considering the mentioned allegations that A's family was searching for grafologist who will say with confidence that TT wrote the note.
And also that widely repeated but unknown source claim that TT admitted to writing the note. Allegedly is from someone who saw the files. But is it? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, and maybe someone figured that spreading such gossip could put a pressure on TT or take the pressure of somebody elses shoulders in hope that they'll spill the beans eventually.

So... how legit was that hypnotist? Are we even sure that it wasn't someone convinced to maybe encourage or even plant fake memories in JM's head will lead to confession - under the assumption that this and that happened and telling her that while she was in such vulnerable state will make her realize that "oh yeah, that's what happened" and recall something more?
Maybe it's nothing more but yet another attempt to make people see a confirmation of the given narrative: like scaring JM with some "memories" caused her to keep silent about the procedure, but making the fact publically available as well as her refusal to share everything with the public makes "clear" hint at that she knows something, TM knows something, VB knew something, they all not telling everything they remember, hiding something, they should be the ones to look at.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It may all be useless but I like how taking a break from thinking about the case gives me "how could I never thought about it?" moments.

Aren't we all putting bit too much weight on the fact that JM (Julie's sister) went to hypnotist and stated that she won't publicaly reveal what did she learned during that session?
Cause I don't know, maybe others have much better info, but what kind of hypnotist we're talking about here?
Cause hypnosis is not exactly science, and a LOT depends on the hypnotist. It's controversial itself even with the most reputable professionalls in the field, while in reality any mumbo-jumbo fortune-teller wannabe can make their way into this business since it's not regulated well (if at all and was even less so in the past).

So... considering the mentioned allegations that A's family was searching for grafologist who will say with confidence that TT wrote the note.
And also that widely repeated but unknown source claim that TT admitted to writing the note. Allegedly is from someone who saw the files. But is it? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, and maybe someone figured that spreading such gossip could put a pressure on TT or take the pressure of somebody elses shoulders in hope that they'll spill the beans eventually.

So... how legit was that hypnotist? Are we even sure that it wasn't someone convinced to maybe encourage or even plant fake memories in JM's head will lead to confession - under the assumption that this and that happened and telling her that while she was in such vulnerable state will make her realize that "oh yeah, that's what happened" and recall something more?
Maybe it's nothing more but yet another attempt to make people see a confirmation of the given narrative: like scaring JM with some "memories" caused her to keep silent about the procedure, but making the fact publically available as well as her refusal to share everything with the public makes "clear" hint at that she knows something, TM knows something, VB knew something, they all not telling everything they remember, hiding something, they should be the ones to look at.

Sometimes it feels like there's a bit of a tease with some characters in this case- "I know something you don't know, but I'm not telling; not even if it would help solve the case".

 

[FW_Froggy]

Sometimes it feels like there's a bit of a tease with some characters in this case- "I know something you don't know, but I'm not telling; not even if it would help solve the case".

Nothing ever changes the T's point at the A's and the A's point at the T's and we ALL get Older and every now and then RA will say he has a major break through BUT can't talk about it now and years go by and nothing ever happens(except RA's bank account gets a little fatter).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Nothing ever changes the T's point at the A's and the A's point at the T's and we ALL get Older and every now and then RA will say he has a major break through BUT can't talk about it now and years go by and nothing ever happens(except RA's bank account gets a little fatter).

What's most disturbing is that all that finger-pointing seems to matter more than the fate of three young girls who didn't ask for what they got. They deserve better.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Nothing ever changes the T's point at the A's and the A's point at the T's and we ALL get Older and every now and then RA will say he has a major break through BUT can't talk about it now and years go by and nothing ever happens(except RA's bank account gets a little fatter).

FWPD should question them all again. I would suspect one or two of them have knowledge of what happened that day.

 

[Brightchaser47]

FWPD should question them all again. I would suspect one or two of them have knowledge of what happened that day.

I would bet my life savings they do, but I'd also bet my life savings that FWPD already knows this and won't bother to question them again. The truth hasn't been forthcoming in nearly 50 years-- why start now?
I suggested awhile ago that perhaps there was corrupt LE involved. I still hold to that. It just seems to me like this case has been thwarted and sabotaged from the beginning, not only by family members, but also LE itself. I truly believe there was someone in FWPD who did not want this case pursued. I can see some (with different priorities) not wanting to seriously work the case right when it happened (over a major holiday), but how about in the following months and years? An APB over a month later?"They'll show up with the Easter Bunny" and "they're in a well near Avedo-- we're going now to check it out"-- pure, unadulterated BS. Were they told not to investigate? Were they in on it? I'm not trying to knock on the FWPD as a whole-- just the individuals who hid behind badges and refused to seriously investigate this case back in 1974. Unless FW's finest treated  every case like this, it had to be something more than mere incompetence, IMO.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I would bet my life savings they do, but I'd also bet my life savings that FWPD already knows this and won't bother to question them again. The truth hasn't been forthcoming in nearly 50 years-- why start now?
I suggested awhile ago that perhaps there was corrupt LE involved. I still hold to that. It just seems to me like this case has been thwarted and sabotaged from the beginning, not only by family members, but also LE itself. I truly believe there was someone in FWPD who did not want this case pursued. I can see some (with different priorities) not wanting to seriously work the case right when it happened (over a major holiday), but how about in the following months and years? An APB over a month later?"They'll show up with the Easter Bunny" and "they're in a well near Avedo-- we're going now to check it out"-- pure, unadulterated BS. Were they told not to investigate? Were they in on it? I'm not trying to knock on the FWPD as a whole-- just the individuals who hid behind badges and refused to seriously investigate this case back in 1974. Unless FW's finest treated  every case like this, it had to be something more than mere incompetence, IMO.

Yes, I get the impression that someone of FWPD did not want the case pursued too heavily, but I am not sure why. They can't all have thought that the girls were runaways. I don't believe cops were involved in the disappearance either.

The fact that they focused their search around the Mall probably did not help either. Easy to say that in hindsight though, I guess.

 

[Von Moltke]

Interesting case. I have talked to a person from one of the families and he is still at loss as why the police apparently did assume the girls were runaways at first, even if the parents and circumstances of their disappearance clearly told otherwise. Perhaps that was their standard procedure at the time.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Nothing ever changes the T's point at the A's and the A's point at the T's and we ALL get Older and every now and then RA will say he has a major break through BUT can't talk about it now and years go by and nothing ever happens(except RA's bank account gets a little fatter).

Maybe the girls will be found, while the A's and T's are busy fighting...

 

[beubeubeu]

Yes, I get the impression that someone of FWPD did not want the case pursued too heavily, but I am not sure why. They can't all have thought that the girls were runaways. I don't believe cops were involved in the disappearance either.

The fact that they focused their search around the Mall probably did not help either. Easy to say that in hindsight though, I guess.

Did they really focused on searching around the Mall?
That's what newspapers and media got and they ran with it: Mall, Mall, Mall, Christmas shopping, car full of Christmas gifts, Mall, Mall, Mall.
And that was pretty much how it seemed that evening and night. And they did what? Have they done anything?

I don't think that is one of the "handsight is 20/20" kind of things to assume and expect that if something appears like kidnapping or accident at the Mall, then one of the first reasonable steps should be to get to all security guards, and especially security chiefs and:
- question them,
- make them aware of the incident,
- ask them for help and any possible info

YET what we have here? Sear's security chief WAS JUST THERE, on this very night, allegedly exactly at the time when cops also were there - and he either just showed up for his shift or was doing his round, and somehow nobody notified him.
Later he provides the tip, that crucial tip that could basically lead them straight to the suspect or allow them to solve the case and... that tip somehow doesn't make it, cops working this case are not getting it (or someone ignores it). Yes, I know that decades later it was kinda followed but why not right away?
With true, proper search of the mall, they'd hear about the girls in the car much earlier. Yet they didn't.

 

[beubeubeu]

Interesting case. I have talked to a person from one of the families and he is still at loss as why the police apparently did assume the girls were runaways at first, even if the parents and circumstances of their disappearance clearly told otherwise. Perhaps that was their standard procedure at the time.

It surely was the standard. Cops were notorious with it, even in cases where circumstances screamed "ABDUCTION". I could name many, many cases with kids as young as 14, 13, 12, 11 even where cops out of the blue decided that they ran away and no investigation is needed - from 70's, 80's, 90's. I bet that many could do the same (I mean a list of cases who got hijacked like that).

But I dare anyone who reads this to try name cases where 9 year old child went missing and cops assumed that's simple runaway case.
It wasn't standard, normal or even within a range of "understandable why such and such could make that unfortunate assumption". It's bizarre now and was bizarre then.

 

[Brightchaser47]

But I dare anyone who reads this to try name cases where 9 year old child went missing and cops assumed that's simple runaway case.
It wasn't standard, normal or even within a range of "understandable why such and such could make that unfortunate assumption". It's bizarre now and was bizarre then.

Agreed. At what point  exactly was it labeled a runaway case? When LE showed up to the mall parking lot that night to take statements? The next day, when the "letter arrived"?

 

[Pricklykitty]

Did they really focused on searching around the Mall?
That's what newspapers and media got and they ran with it: Mall, Mall, Mall, Christmas shopping, car full of Christmas gifts, Mall, Mall, Mall.
And that was pretty much how it seemed that evening and night. And they did what? Have they done anything?

I don't think that is one of the "handsight is 20/20" kind of things to assume and expect that if something appears like kidnapping or accident at the Mall, then one of the first reasonable steps should be to get to all security guards, and especially security chiefs and:
- question them,
- make them aware of the incident,
- ask them for help and any possible info

YET what we have here? Sear's security chief WAS JUST THERE, on this very night, allegedly exactly at the time when cops also were there - and he either just showed up for his shift or was doing his round, and somehow nobody notified him.
Later he provides the tip, that crucial tip that could basically lead them straight to the suspect or allow them to solve the case and... that tip somehow doesn't make it, cops working this case are not getting it (or someone ignores it). Yes, I know that decades later it was kinda followed but why not right away?
With true, proper search of the mall, they'd hear about the girls in the car much earlier. Yet they didn't.

And don't forget that same Sears security guy was ex le. He of all people should have known how to get a tip to the right person

 

[beubeubeu]

Agreed. At what point  exactly was it labeled a runaway case? When LE showed up to the mall parking lot that night to take statements? The next day, when the "letter arrived"?

Seems like it happened right away.
As for 1974 they had no shortage of cases like "car found & girl/girls/woman missing" - no idea how many of them ran away (despite nobody in their families and friends circles thinking that's a possibility) but dozens of them turned up murdered.
Significant amount of these crimes happened pretty close to the mall.
Yet they decided that car isn't worth securing, fingerprinting, looking for possible fibers. And they should do that with possible abduction. And it sounded like they did that in other cases of abandoned cars found.

To be fair, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there was a cop on a mission of having this case unsolved.
As little as cop's good friend (or even just a respectable looking person) opinion like "oh, better not waste taxpayers money on it, these girls ran away" could cause this outcome.

 

[beubeubeu]

And don't forget that same Sears security guy was ex le. He of all people should have known how to get a tip to the right person

He should know that.
And possibly what he did was in his experience most reliable way, cause as far as he remembered, this specific secretary (or other secretaries that he worked with) always forwarded all tips and info she got with at most care and dedication.
We don't know how it looked like
- possibly he wanted to avoid cops and cops wanted to avoid him with petty reasons,
- possibly the ex-le guy wasn't really trying to properly forward his information and did it in a way that almost certainly wouldn't get through,
- possibly someone made sure to stop this tip from going forward
I can easily come up with possible explanations as to why that tip got lost but how to explain the fact that SS's guards weren't properly informed, alerted, spoken to, asked for help:
hours
days
weeks
months
years
decades
after Julie, Rachel and Renee went missing?

 

[Von Moltke]

Seems like it happened right away.
As for 1974 they had no shortage of cases like "car found & girl/girls/woman missing" - no idea how many of them ran away (despite nobody in their families and friends circles thinking that's a possibility) but dozens of them turned up murdered.
Significant amount of these crimes happened pretty close to the mall.
Yet they decided that car isn't worth securing, fingerprinting, looking for possible fibers. And they should do that with possible abduction. And it sounded like they did that in other cases of abandoned cars found.

To be fair, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there was a cop on a mission of having this case unsolved.
As little as cop's good friend (or even just a respectable looking person) opinion like "oh, better not waste taxpayers money on it, these girls ran away" could cause this outcome.

The runaway kids in those days were not uncommon, that might explain why they were not in such a hurry to solve the case and, plus the letter, just reinforced the idea. That letter might be the key no doubt about it, and thus a new graphological analysis would be necessary.

Moreover, there is the story of the security guard who saw the girls smiling and at easy in a van with another guy, which does not make any sense (an obvious invention or a lie ). A pity he's passed on.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Seems like it happened right away.
As for 1974 they had no shortage of cases like "car found & girl/girls/woman missing" - no idea how many of them ran away (despite nobody in their families and friends circles thinking that's a possibility) but dozens of them turned up murdered.
Significant amount of these crimes happened pretty close to the mall.
Yet they decided that car isn't worth securing, fingerprinting, looking for possible fibers. And they should do that with possible abduction. And it sounded like they did that in other cases of abandoned cars found.

To be fair, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there was a cop on a mission of having this case unsolved.
As little as cop's good friend (or even just a respectable looking person) opinion like "oh, better not waste taxpayers money on it, these girls ran away" could cause this outcome.

Seems like it happened right away.
As for 1974 they had no shortage of cases like "car found & girl/girls/woman missing" - no idea how many of them ran away (despite nobody in their families and friends circles thinking that's a possibility) but dozens of them turned up murdered.
Significant amount of these crimes happened pretty close to the mall.
Yet they decided that car isn't worth securing, fingerprinting, looking for possible fibers. And they should do that with possible abduction. And it sounded like they did that in other cases of abandoned cars found.

To be fair, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there was a cop on a mission of having this case unsolved.
As little as cop's good friend (or even just a respectable looking person) opinion like "oh, better not waste taxpayers money on it, these girls ran away" could cause this outcome.

Those are good points. My thinking was that maybe LE initially responded to the case as "missing persons" the night the girls went missing, until certain LEO's realized  who went missing, and realized something would/could track back to them and something illicit they were doing (i e. juvenile detective/LEO selling drugs to minors).