TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[jetsfanjohn]

The runaway kids in those days were not uncommon, that might explain why they were not in such a hurry to solve the case and, plus the letter, just reinforced the idea. That letter might be the key no doubt about it, and thus a new graphological analysis would be necessary.

Moreover, there is the story of the security guard who saw the girls smiling and at easy in a van with another guy, which does not make any sense (an obvious invention or a lie ). A pity he's passed on.

I agree. I'm calling BS on the security guards claim. The families and LE were all over the Mall when the incident is supposed to have occurred.

I firmly believe that someone known to the eldest girl is responsible. I think either someone 'snapped' that day or someone became aware of a certain situation and had to act urgently to 'resolve' it. I tend to go with the former.

 

[beubeubeu]

Moreover, there is the story of the security guard who saw the girls smiling and at easy in a van with another guy, which does not make any sense (an obvious invention or a lie ). A pity he's passed on.

It doesn't matter if it was invention or a lie.
He could made it up, or mix it up, or mistake the identity of the girls, security guard, girls AND security guard, the date when it happened, the time - doesn't matter.

The nearest store to where the car was located was Sears. He was security chief here.
According to his story he wasn't alarmed to see the girls at the time when everyone else was looking for them. It was a good lead, good tip. It may not make sense now, but it should be considered and investigated then. He should have an occasion to deliver this tip face to face while questioned about all possible odd events at the Mall that day. Yet apparently he wasn't.
As far as cops were concerned on the night of 23rd, girls could be trapped somewhere in the mall, involved in some fight at the mall, they could hide ashamed after trying to steal something so really no reason to NOT question Sears security chief about that day and plenty of reasons to do so.

The point I'm trying to make is not about that alleged sighting at all, but that nothing really points at cops being particularily interested in investigating the Mall area.
If they were then IMO they would question Sears security chief - and then, instead of complaining on the fact that his tip ended up ignored, he'd have to explain why he never mentioned that sighting while talking to cops (cause that would surely made it to the case files).

 

[Von Moltke]

It doesn't matter if it was invention or a lie.

In fact it does as it shows there is a possibility he was trying to cover up for someone by stating the girls were really running away. In a nutshell: reinforcing "the girls on the run" narrative

And I got your point and it is on the money to confirm my theory: "he wasn't alarmed to see the girls at the time when everyone else was looking for them. It was a good lead, good tip. It may not make sense now, but it should be considered and investigated then".

This is rather strange isn't it?

The lack of care from the cops was something that didn't help either.

Maybe because those victim's family were not people of importance, they were not give the right attention.

 

[Brightchaser47]

The point I'm trying to make is not about that alleged sighting at all, but that nothing really points at cops being particularily interested in investigating the Mall area.

That makes me wonder-
*What exactly was said and done by responding LEO's when they arrived at SS?
*Was  any actual search of the mall grounds conducted by responding LE and /or mall security?
*Were the responding LEO's with Juvenile Division, or were they just regular LE dispatched while on patrol?
*How many LEO's in total were there that night?

 

[Pricklykitty]

That makes me wonder-
*What exactly was said and done by responding LEO's when they arrived at SS?
*Was  any actual search of the mall grounds conducted by responding LE and /or mall security?
*Were the responding LEO's with Juvenile Division, or were they just regular LE dispatched while on patrol?
*How many LEO's in total were there that night?

It seems like very little was done that night. The fact police wouldn't attend until after the mall closed,
the fact the car wasn't guarded by le to preserve any possible evidence,
the fact no in person police reports were taken indicating le didn't even deem visiting the homes that night
All give the impression that le only did what they were obliged to do, and had already decided this was going to be classed as a runaway and filed away.. jmo

 

[FW_Froggy]

Go to Facebook and type "Justice for Lecia" and play the first video that comes up. You will see FA's second husband who found the body off 820 on the south side of Fort Worth. Lecia's sister Debbie and DA were best friends. Just more to add if anyone didn't know this.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

It seems like very little was done that night. The fact police wouldn't attend until after the mall closed,
the fact the car wasn't guarded by le to preserve any possible evidence,
the fact no in person police reports were taken indicating le didn't even deem visiting the homes that night
All give the impression that le only did what they were obliged to do, and had already decided this was going to be classed as a runaway and filed away.. jmo

Sadly, I think that the police presence at the Mall that night was a moot point. I think whatever happened to the girls occurred earlier in the day and possibly nowhere near the Mall.

LE state that they have 'fewer than five' POIs.
I'll wager none of the names are employees at the Mall, but I would still love to see that list.

I would agree with the 'fewer than five' POIs. I would say the names on the police list consist of people that have been mentioned on these threads. Depending on what happened to the girls and where, I can 'shuffle the deck' on who was responsible, but for me it always comes back to the same few people.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Sadly, I think that the police presence at the Mall that night was a moot point. I think whatever happened to the girls occurred earlier in the day and possibly nowhere near the Mall.

LE state that they have 'fewer than five' POIs.
I'll wager none of the names are employees at the Mall, but I would still love to see that list.

I would agree with the 'fewer than five' POIs. I would say the names on the police list consist of people that have been mentioned on these threads. Depending on what happened to the girls and where, I can 'shuffle the deck' on who was responsible, but for me it always comes back to the same few people.

I would agree that something very likely transpired at Minot that afternoon, I'm just not so sure it's the "something" many think. I dare say little ST witnessed it. I do think it interesting that more than one "informant" suggested the girls' bodies would be found in or near a gas well. We know a family member had connections to that industry. If someone knew where there were wells being built around that time...

 

[FW_Froggy]

I would agree that something very likely transpired at Minot that afternoon, I'm just not so sure it's the "something" many think. I dare say little ST witnessed it. I do think it interesting that more than one "informant" suggested the girls' bodies would be found in or near a gas well. We know a family member had connections to that industry. If someone knew where there were wells being built around that time...

I've heard that on here. Is the family digging gas wells, water wells, oil wells, or are they Just Digging?

 

[beubeubeu]

In fact it does as it shows there is a possibility he was trying to cover up for someone by stating the girls were really running away. In a nutshell: reinforcing "the girls on the run" narrative

How was he covering for anyone?
He didn't knew the girls so even insistig that he recognised them it had to be consider than on the busiest day ever they were many groups of three girls with noticeable age gaps hanging out around the Mall. No reason to be alarmed by the sight of such girls possibly getting a lift back home from brother, cousin or a friend.
Nobody credible called bs on his story of learning about the disappearance with the delay and calling tip - so likely nobody questioned or notified him.
There is a possibility that he didn't make enough effort to forward his tip, or that he possibly put some petty reasons (like not wanting to call ex-colleague who was on bad terms with him) over sake of these girls, but we don't really know why his tip got lost. Possibly he even knew personally that leaving the tip to that secretary was very efficient and sure way to have it delivered to the right person, possibly it wasn't just the matter of mistake and someone deliberately make this tip disappear.
And if so, how many other possibly crucial tips got lost?

Cause okay, we probably all agree that even if there were some girls in that car there were most likely not "our" girls. That would point at tip getting lost being result of neglect or unfortunate turn of events, UNLESS it was not about the girls in that car, but about that young security guard. Cause it doesn't seem like he was questioned at the time. And possibly, if he was questioned right away he could realize that oh yeah, he may actually saw something disturbing earlier that day.

This is rather strange isn't it?

The lack of care from the cops was something that didn't help either.

Maybe because those victim's family were not people of importance, they were not give the right attention.

It's very strange considering how much attention this case got.
Sadly not so strange that they just didn't appear particularily interested in investigating the disappearance, as plenty of other cases from that time and area were outrageously neglected, but this was BIG. Not as big as it should be but big nonetheless. No matter who the families were, public saw three young girls going missing and was scared, had expectations for LE right from the start and they still seem to care a little.

That makes me wonder-
*What exactly was said and done by responding LEO's when they arrived at SS?

Probably nothing more than looking at the car and talking a bit with those at the scene.

*Was  any actual search of the mall grounds conducted by responding LE and /or mall security?

Well... could be there any reason to keep it as a secret for almost 50 years if it was? I don't think so. FA calls and her possible round through all the stores with questions was likely as far as it went.

 

[Von Moltke]

How was he covering for anyone?
He didn't knew the girls so even insistig that he recognised them it had to be consider than on the busiest day ever they were many groups of three girls with noticeable age gaps hanging out around the Mall.

We don't know the full story and we are left to speculate on this.

There is a possibility that he didn't make enough effort to forward his tip, or that he possibly put some petty reasons (like not wanting to call ex-colleague who was on bad terms with him) over sake of these girls, but we don't really know why his tip got lost.

What I meant is his story matches the narrative of runaway girls.

Which does not make any sense from the real (and scanty) facts that we know.

So, as you said, he either mixed up ids or, invented the story for attention, or would simply be working in collusion with someone.

Well... could be there any reason to keep it as a secret for almost 50 years if it was? I don't think so. FA calls and her possible round through all the stores with questions was likely as far as it went.

Too much data missing on the story and key elements overlooked. In my opinion, they should do another analysis on that letter.

I expressed this opinion on a Facebook page where people discuss this subject, mention the letter without naming anyone or even inferring something and was expelled from it, and nobody gave a reason. This is strange to say the least.

Also have a guess that this case might be bigger than it appears to be, but must abide to the rules here since I am just a layman.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I've heard that on here. Is the family digging gas wells, water wells, oil wells, or are they Just Digging?

According to  Pricklykitty (pg 9, post 167), foundations for oil wells. Sorry, I couldn't bring it over for direct quote.

 

[beubeubeu]

What I meant is his story matches the narrative of runaway girls.

Does it? They were all supposed to be home hours before that alleged sighting happened. Considering it accurate and putting aside what we can speculate now that leaves us ("us" in the 1974) with:
- despite of the plans something prevented girls from returning home and to the car even,
- they appeared like they were in good spirits for the whitness (why?)
- car with them left and we have no idea where they went.

It would be MUCH of a stretch to assume that they "ran away" by staying at the Mall till it closed. Moderately reasonable to assume that something may cause them to stay there that long and hang out in stores but then they should be back home. Yet they werent. That should lead straight to the guy who allegedly had them in his car, not into idiotic assumption that oh, one person judged the situation like its all fine so they probably ran away.

If that tip was delivered right away then surely it would place all the attention away from all the families houses and from the mall itself. But when he first tried to deliver that tip it was already past the point when cops figured that they ran away, and he insisted on it long decades later.

So, as you said, he either mixed up ids or, invented the story for attention, or would simply be working in collusion with someone.

But that doesn't change much in the long run. If anything it makes their runaway less likely not more, if we'll assume that around 11 PM they were still at the Mall's parking lot. And that sould place all the attention on those two guys and girls houses, possible stops on their way back home, not buying more into them running away. How? With night buses? Who would miss or forget Julie on the night bus? Were there any buses leaving that late?

I expressed this opinion on a (...) page where people discuss this subject, mention the letter without naming anyone or even inferring something and was expelled from it, and nobody gave a reason. This is strange to say the least.

Some groups of people are set pretty hard on the claim that letter is irrelevant not giving much of an explanation why is that.
Understandable why it'd be extremely frustrating to see yet another person trying to beat this dead horse while being sure that letter is red herring and likely doesn't have anything to do with the disappearance or can't be truly connected to it - which is kept secret for the sake of the investigation.
Not a proper way to treat anyone thou, unless they stated in rules that whole group is not interested in discussing the note.

Go to Facebook and type "Justice for Lecia" and play the first video that comes up. You will see FA's second husband who found the body off 820 on the south side of Fort Worth. Lecia's sister Debbie and DA were best friends. Just more to add if anyone didn't know this.

So many murders of young girls and women in the area that it'd be hard to not have some of them having similar ties to each other. Yet no doubt in my mind that many are victims of same perp (surely more than one).

 

[Valiant]

For all we know these things that are now claimed as not being investigated could have been investigated at the time and dismissed. Lots of false tips come in on every case. There are lots of them, some innocent and some from people seeking attention.

 

[beubeubeu]

For all we know these things that are now claimed as not being investigated could have been investigated at the time and dismissed. Lots of false tips come in on every case. There are lots of them, some innocent and some from people seeking attention.

I doubt if the whitnesses seeking attention is really that much of an issue. Just in my experience:
- most attempts of trying to point out something or notify others about the issue is branded as attention seeking,
- I got strong impression that attention seekers are more devoted to the process of seeking attention that saying something once or twice
It's not investigator's experice so may not apply at all, but I'd think that majority of those "attention seekers" are just genuinely convinced that they whitnessed something important or don't want to live with the awareness that they might notice something very important so they're reporting just in case.

Back to that security chief, I'd say that it appears like he really did whitnessed that.
It's pretty likely that he may be mistaken about the girls identity (unless he was one of those people who are VERY GOOD with faces and are able to recognise everyone they saw for even the briefest moment).
Not very likely that he was mistaken about the other guard's identity cause it seems like he knew him.
Possibly there were other three girls with the second guard, heading home after the mall closed, but the other guard decided to deny that to avoid getting involved in it? Also none of these tree ever came forward to share their recollection of that night.
For me that's much more likely than for a guy who never appeared as an attention seeking type did it once in his older days and that was pretty much it.

It's not as much about that tip about girls being in the mall area 11PM that night, more about the possible exposition of the fact that mall guards weren't qustioned about that day. If they were, then that security chief should make it straight to the list of suspects.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I doubt if the whitnesses seeking attention is really that much of an issue. Just in my experience:
- most attempts of trying to point out something or notify others about the issue is branded as attention seeking,
- I got strong impression that attention seekers are more devoted to the process of seeking attention that saying something once or twice
It's not investigator's experice so may not apply at all, but I'd think that majority of those "attention seekers" are just genuinely convinced that they whitnessed something important or don't want to live with the awareness that they might notice something very important so they're reporting just in case.

Back to that security chief, I'd say that it appears like he really did whitnessed that.
It's pretty likely that he may be mistaken about the girls identity (unless he was one of those people who are VERY GOOD with faces and are able to recognise everyone they saw for even the briefest moment).
Not very likely that he was mistaken about the other guard's identity cause it seems like he knew him.
Possibly there were other three girls with the second guard, heading home after the mall closed, but the other guard decided to deny that to avoid getting involved in it? Also none of these tree ever came forward to share their recollection of that night.
For me that's much more likely than for a guy who never appeared as an attention seeking type did it once in his older days and that was pretty much it.

It's not as much about that tip about girls being in the mall area 11PM that night, more about the possible exposition of the fact that mall guards weren't qustioned about that day. If they were, then that security chief should make it straight to the list of suspects.

I've heard atleast three Sears employees say that the sear's security guard was not believable. I don't believe LE thought he was very credible BUT LE did question the guy he said he saw them with.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It seems like very little was done that night. The fact police wouldn't attend until after the mall closed, the fact the car wasn't guarded by le to preserve any possible evidence, the fact no in person police reports were taken indicating le didn't even deem visiting the homes that night All give the impression that le only did what they were obliged to do, and had already decided this was going to be classed as a runaway and filed away.. jmo

Yes, I get the impression that someone of FWPD did not want the case pursued too heavily, but I am not sure why. They can't all have thought that the girls were runaways. I don't believe cops were involved in the disappearance either.

LE might not have been involved in the disappearance, but  someone at FWPD had reason to thwart this case. It may've been someone with the Juvenile Division. Was there an illicit connection to one of the families?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I agree. I'm calling BS on the security guards claim. The families and LE were all over the Mall when the incident is supposed to have occurred.

I firmly believe that someone known to the eldest girl is responsible. I think either someone 'snapped' that day or someone became aware of a certain situation and had to act urgently to 'resolve' it. I tend to go with the former.

So, we're to believe that a guy who has a history of multiple marriages, but  no domestic violence allegations or convictions (just an allegation of assault to Rachel's cousin) just up and murders his wife and her two young friends over an isolated incident of impropriety at a birthday party, then is able to pass three polygraphs. Interesting.
Not attacking you,  jetsfanjohn, just the narrative that doesn't make sense.

 

[Brightchaser47]

How big an area did the A Trucking Company service in 1974?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

So, we're to believe that a guy who has a history of multiple marriages, but  no domestic violence allegations or convictions (just an allegation of assault to Rachel's cousin) just up and murders his wife and her two young friends over an isolated incident of impropriety at a birthday party, then is able to pass three polygraphs. Interesting.
Not attacking you,  jetsfanjohn, just the narrative that doesn't make sense.

Attack away . Every theory should be questioned. As I mentioned in a previous thread, there are parts of that scenario that are 'weak', but I feel it is one of the more likely scenarios.