TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

Not sure this is what T rex was referring to but this is what I thought about. The green is the still in fw bit, purple the Arkansas bit.
That last bit really gets to me because no matter where the girls were spotted, the lead could have been followed up. What was the point in the detective saying they issued apb ' which covered the whole of the States' if they weren't going to follow up leads outside FW?

Excellent points. Still sounds like they had no intention of pursuing the case, for whatever reason.

View attachment 432362
[News Clip: Missing women]

According to the piece in green, Juvenile Detective Wilbanks  was in charge of the investigation, so a) whatever tips and information came in, would have to go through him, and b) he could decide what did and didn't get investigated. Interesting.
It was also interesting to see a rare quote from TT in the one article (not highlighted).

 

[Pricklykitty]

Excellent points. Still sounds like they had no intention of pursuing the case, for whatever reason.

According to the piece in green, Juvenile Detective Wilbanks  was in charge of the investigation, so a) whatever tips and information came in, would have to go through him, and b) he could decide what did and didn't get investigated. Interesting.
It was also interesting to see a rare quote from TT in the one article (not highlighted).

There really is the overwhelming feeling that the pd just didn't want to investigate this case isn't there?
The idea that tips coming in are being discounted, while at the same time we are told they are being investigated are certainly at odds with each other.

Yes the TT quote.....maybe that discussion between him and DA was what kept them busy at minot when no one knows where they actually were!

 

[Pricklykitty]

Reading this article about Swaim I can't help wonder if the informant was actually real, or just another way for Swaim to get himself in the limelight. It just seems an odd request for an informant who wants to remain anonymous to insist on publicity before they have given information. I would think most would want it kept as quiet as possible until those they were informing on were under le custody and unable to 'silence' any informers. Its also a bit odd that there is a third party liaising between the informant and Swaim,for similar reasons but hey not the oddest thing in this case
Ive always thought Swaim might have made up the informant as a way to get the district attorney to agree to some sort of immunity, so that he could then approach people he thought knew something and tell them immunity was on the table. Easiest way to get that message out and show its real has to be a press conference covered by media - jmo

Also interesting to see that FA quote as its a rare change to her saying she believes the girls were trafficked. I wonder if the other mothers being there had influence over this?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Buying time could have been one reason but just as likely to make it appear a runaway case. To keep the FBI from becoming involved, and they still haven't become involved up unto this day.

That's not entirely true.
* DA took a polygraph for the FBI (not sure about TT's).
*The negatives from Murphy's photo booth (allegedly used by the girls on 23rd)were taken by the FBI.
* Handwriting analysis of the letter and envelope were done by the FBI.
So technically, they have been involved.

 

[beubeubeu]

That's not entirely true.
* DA took a polygraph for the FBI (not sure about TT's).
*The negatives from Murphy's photo booth (allegedly used by the girls on 23rd)were taken by the FBI.
* Handwriting analysis of the letter and envelope were done by the FBI.
So technically, they have been involved.

Letter was allegedly send to the FBI lab for analysis as soon as January 1975 but that doesn't necessarily mean that FBI was involved in the actual investigation. Same with DA's polygraph, I'm not sure of it but it was also phrased weird, like some FBI expert was involved in the process, but not clearly stated that it was part of FBI's investigation.
Don't know much about the photo booth negatives from photo booth, but the statements provided in this thread recently are carefully explaining why there is no need for their involvement.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Letter was allegedly send to the FBI lab for analysis as soon as January 1975 but that doesn't necessarily mean that FBI was involved in the actual investigation. Same with DA's polygraph, I'm not sure of it but it was also phrased weird, like some FBI expert was involved in the process, but not clearly stated that it was part of FBI's investigation.
Don't know much about the photo booth negatives from photo booth, but the statements provided in this thread recently are carefully explaining why there is no need for their involvement.

I stand corrected.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I'm sure the FBI was involved whenever they were asked. On Question #39 to DA she was asked "Did the FWPD take a written statement from you?" DA's answer was "Yes I was drilled by them + the Texas Rangers."

 

[beubeubeu]

Maybe one of the reasons why the note showed up here and Houston was mentioned was specifically to prevent FBI's involvement in the case?
Without the note and with such a decent publicity the pressure to have them on this case could be pretty big.

Was FBI involved early in cases of Melissa Higsmith, Carla Walker or some other case that made it to the media?
Could it be that perp read about it in newspapers and figured that cause it was possible that victim got abducted and taken to another state the FBI took over - so to prevent that it has to appear that girls are still in Texas?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

That's not entirely true.
* DA took a polygraph for the FBI (not sure about TT's).
*The negatives from Murphy's photo booth (allegedly used by the girls on 23rd)were taken by the FBI.
* Handwriting analysis of the letter and envelope were done by the FBI.
So technically, they have been involved.

I would love to know more about those negatives from the photo booth.

Where the girls in any of the photos ? Was anyone else with them ? I am guessing probably not, as anyone else would have been interviewed hard by the Police.

I wonder if these negatives convinced LE that the girls were at the Mall that day ?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I would love to know more about those negatives from the photo booth.

Where the girls in any of the photos ? Was anyone else with them ? I am guessing probably not, as anyone else would have been interviewed hard by the Police.

It would be great if someone actually saw the girls use the booth, and reported it, but then, we don't know that didn't happen (except for the G.C.Murphy employee). The police have never released anything.

I wonder if these negatives convinced LE that the girls were at the Mall that day ?

That was always my understanding.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I would love to know more about those negatives from the photo booth.

Where the girls in any of the photos ? Was anyone else with them ? I am guessing probably not, as anyone else would have been interviewed hard by the Police.

I wonder if these negatives convinced LE that the girls were at the Mall that day ?

It would be great if someone actually saw the girls use the booth, and reported it, but then, we don't know that didn't happen (except for the G.C.Murphy employee). The police have never released anything.

Detective Tom Boetcher of FWPD did say (at a 2001 press conference),"We can say they were seen at one point with one individual". Some have taken that 'one individual' to be VB/CJG, and that the girls had photos taken with him. That may or may not be true. It's possible that what we  think we know about VB's activities that day stems from questionable statements made by P. I. James. VB himself told differing versions...

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Detective Tom Boetcher of FWPD did say (at a 2001 press conference),"We can say they were seen at one point with one individual". Some have taken that 'one individual' to be VB/CJG, and that the girls had photos taken with him. That may or may not be true. It's possible that what we  think we know about VB's activities that day stems from questionable statements made by P. I. James. VB himself told differing versions...

My opinion is that the individual they were with was 'CJG'. I wonder how they parted company ?

I think they may have dropped him home or dropped him off somewhere along the way, before heading to Minot where they were allegedly seen around 12.30pm. After that.....who knows ????

 

[beubeubeu]

I'm very torn on the fact that girls were allegedly seen at Minot around 12:30.
Some doubts I expressed here early - that the timing in the reports may be off to som degree (and as far as I know it's completely normal for those to ended up confused or misreported). And there is not really any confident claim from anyone, anything like hell yeah, it HAD to be 12:30 cause I vividly remember the noon news segment on the radio on my way there (coming from ST for example).

It does not make any sense for me to consider DA as lying about almost everything she ever said or stated, yet hold hard on the accuracy of the timing in Rachel's MP report. Especially that some timing in the report is bit off, and that ST claims never came directly from her, but instead...
It's like... come on.
So she spoke to DJ, right? At least she exchanged some emails with him. Send him a message in which she provides her personal information right in the beginning of the letter, later she explains how that day went.
And then... the story is that DJ was just an outstanding guy, great PI, so heavily involved, so caring abou this investigation. What kind of sense does that make? Such a guy, such an investigator would expose whitness name and address for EVERYONE to see? With her permission? Without it? Why?

 

[FW_Froggy]

I'm very torn on the fact that girls were allegedly seen at Minot around 12:30.
Some doubts I expressed here early - that the timing in the reports may be off to som degree (and as far as I know it's completely normal for those to ended up confused or misreported). And there is not really any confident claim from anyone, anything like hell yeah, it HAD to be 12:30 cause I vividly remember the noon news segment on the radio on my way there (coming from ST for example).

It does not make any sense for me to consider DA as lying about almost everything she ever said or stated, yet hold hard on the accuracy of the timing in Rachel's MP report. Especially that some timing in the report is bit off, and that ST claims never came directly from her, but instead...
It's like... come on.
So she spoke to DJ, right? At least she exchanged some emails with him. Send him a message in which she provides her personal information right in the beginning of the letter, later she explains how that day went.
And then... the story is that DJ was just an outstanding guy, great PI, so heavily involved, so caring abou this investigation. What kind of sense does that make? Such a guy, such an investigator would expose whitness name and address for EVERYONE to see? With her permission? Without it? Why?

The Police Reports are the Police Reports. One of the very few things we have from LE. In the last 48 years I have never heard one person say the police reports were wrong.

 

[Brightchaser47]

The Police Reports are the Police Reports. One of the very few things we have from LE. In the last 48 years I have never heard one person say the police reports were wrong.

Just to clarify, are you referring to the Missing Person reports filed by family members?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm very torn on the fact that girls were allegedly seen at Minot around 12:30.
Some doubts I expressed here early - that the timing in the reports may be off to som degree (and as far as I know it's completely normal for those to ended up confused or misreported). And there is not really any confident claim from anyone, anything like hell yeah, it HAD to be 12:30 cause I vividly remember the noon news segment on the radio on my way there (coming from ST for example).

It does not make any sense for me to consider DA as lying about almost everything she ever said or stated, yet hold hard on the accuracy of the timing in Rachel's MP report. Especially that some timing in the report is bit off, and that ST claims never came directly from her, but instead...
It's like... come on.
So she spoke to DJ, right? At least she exchanged some emails with him. Send him a message in which she provides her personal information right in the beginning of the letter, later she explains how that day went.
And then... the story is that DJ was just an outstanding guy, great PI, so heavily involved, so caring abou this investigation. What kind of sense does that make? Such a guy, such an investigator would expose whitness name and address for EVERYONE to see? With her permission? Without it? Why?

As has been stated on this forum, DJ liked to throw out statements, potential "clues", to see what response he would get. He may well have done so with that so-called "email" from ST (especially, if she vehemently denies writing/sending it). Just a thought.

 

[beubeubeu]

The Police Reports are the Police Reports. One of the very few things we have from LE. In the last 48 years I have never heard one person say the police reports were wrong.

It would not count as wrong by any means to have the timing bit off.

And there is a big hint that there is some freedom with timing taken cause filing MP report it's not something that anyone can complete in 5 or even 10 minutes (especially while everything has to be written by hand).
Of course everyone has different speed of writing, some are faster, some slower, but filing such report requires that a conversation is happening with the person filing the report - could be just quick question, quick answer but that's bit less likely than having an officer asking like a two-three additional questions to get the best grasp on the info provided.
But it's absolutely impossible that the timing is completely accurate there. Cause it's impossible that exact same officer was able to get two MP reports from two different family members, one of which was physically at the location, one of which called.
It doesn't necessarily mean anything bad. Could be just the drill to not bother with time like 6:07 AM or 6:23 AM and using only times like 6:00 AM or 6:30 AM and so on. With the rule that anything completed even a minute after 6 AM is officially counted as filed at 6:30 AM, as well as something completed at 6:29 AM.

Let's say that DA insisted that it was 10:30 when she last saw Rachel. But the officer decided to make sure and asked her few additional questions. And it went like this:

She: ... and I think she left home around 10:30 AM.
Officer: So you're not sure?
She: No, I was sleeping then, she woke me up to ask me if I'll join her but I stayed in bed.
Officer: How do you know it was 10:30 then, have you looked at the clock? Did she said what time is it? Have you asked her what time is it?
Me: Well, no, but I think that she left and when I was falling back to sleep I heard the radio jingle before their hourly news, so it had to be half past 11 when I saw her... I think. Surely it was after 10:00 AM cause I got uo to pee and then I heard the time in the news clearly.
Officer: And when did you wake up?
She: Sometime after 3 PM.
Officer: So you're sure that it was past 10 AM but before 3 PM and definitely sometime before the hourly news in the radio. So it could be 10:30, 11:30, 12:30, 13:30 or even 14:30. Okay, so we have to narrow it down a bit, let's say it was 12:30.

It would not be wrong for him to put 12:30 there (Ideally he would elaborate in a way that it'd be clear that it could be basically every half-past-x-hour between 11 AM and 3 PM but it'd be crazy to expect that he had the time to be so specific with everything), he'd be absolutely right... but the timing still could be off.

Different story if, while filing the report she said oh, I'm sure it was 12:30 cause I asked her what time is it, I looked at my watch and it was 12:30... and then changed her story and started insisting on 10:30.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Just to clarify, are you referring to the Missing Person reports filed by family members?

Yes

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm sure the FBI was involved whenever they were asked. On Question #39 to DA she was asked "Did the FWPD take a written statement from you?" DA's answer was "Yes I was drilled by them + the Texas Rangers."

Does anyone know  when DA was interrogated by the Texas Rangers?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Does anyone know  when DA was interrogated by the Texas Rangers?

I don't know how anybody would know that Unless DA told them. LE has never said anything about who they interviewed or who they took statements from that I've ever heard. We wouldn't even know she was "Drilled" by the Texas Rangers if she didn't say it with her own words.