TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

I don't know how anybody would know that Unless DA told them. LE has never said anything about who they interviewed or who they took statements from that I've ever heard. We wouldn't even know she was "Drilled" by the Texas Rangers if she didn't say it with her own words.

Fair enough. She did share on this forum when she took the polygraphs. I just wondered if maybe her statements to them (FWPD/Rangers) might've had a bearing on FWPD's reopening the case and the 2001 press conference.

 

[beubeubeu]

I took another break from thinking about this case and it's ridiculous cause I feel like every time I see it in a different way.
I know that it's not the best approach to wonder about so-called "bigger schemes" in these old cases, cause 99 of 100 the only reason why it appears like it could be the case is that important bits of the story are missing or misreported. But...

Well, plenty of times I've read opinions about DA, saying that she's allegedly rather on the manipulative side... but that's very, very common with women who grew in abusive households.
Many times I've read about TT being not the nicest guy around + alleged assault allegiations... but that as well, not at all uncommon with kinda privilledged guys raised in oldschool way.
Kinda same with FA, she could appear as compulsive liar considering some of her statements... yet that may be just her trying her best to keep some sort of contol over extremely hard and stressfull situation.

I still feel that it's more likely that at least one of those three knows for sure what happened to the girls, but in the same time...
It would be not incredibly easy for someone who kinda knew the dynamic between these people to make sure they will go against each other as soon as possible and stay like that. Cause IF NOT - IF none of them had a clue, yet someone known to them (and/or to the girls) is responsible, then if they all joined forces, stayed together and kept their back, they'll probably be able to figure it out sooner or later.
In the same time... they (and it's just my impression) appear like the type of people who dont need much to put on guard and never risk to consider trusting someone ever again. And that they'd be not only easy to play and trick by someone (who knew how they tend to behave and react) but they may as well play themselves and stuck into some sort of certaintity that the other one knows/did something while none of them is truly responsible.

 

[beubeubeu]

Oh, and also - it's not really that related but I made a shocking discovery some time ago.
I thought that's bizarre and crazy that FA ended up so certain that girls got kidnapped into human trafficking.
I havent realized but it appears like it's relatively common for relatives of missing loved ones to fear some scenario so much that they ended up totally convinced that it has to be what happened. That and organ harvesting murders - these are very real and horrifying scenarios but it happens much less than people feeling completely convinces that has to be what happened. And there is no strong link between believing that or saying that and having something to hide (at least in my experience).

 

[Brightchaser47]

I took another break from thinking about this case and it's ridiculous cause I feel like every time I see it in a different way.
I know that it's not the best approach to wonder about so-called "bigger schemes" in these old cases, cause 99 of 100 the only reason why it appears like it could be the case is that important bits of the story are missing or misreported. But...

Well, plenty of times I've read opinions about DA, saying that she's allegedly rather on the manipulative side... but that's very, very common with women who grew in abusive households.
Many times I've read about TT being not the nicest guy around + alleged assault allegiations... but that as well, not at all uncommon with kinda privilledged guys raised in oldschool way.
Kinda same with FA, she could appear as compulsive liar considering some of her statements... yet that may be just her trying her best to keep some sort of contol over extremely hard and stressfull situation.

I still feel that it's more likely that at least one of those three knows for sure what happened to the girls, but in the same time...
It would be not incredibly easy for someone who kinda knew the dynamic between these people to make sure they will go against each other as soon as possible and stay like that. Cause IF NOT - IF none of them had a clue, yet someone known to them (and/or to the girls) is responsible, then if they all joined forces, stayed together and kept their back, they'll probably be able to figure it out sooner or later.
In the same time... they (and it's just my impression) appear like the type of people who dont need much to put on guard and never risk to consider trusting someone ever again. And that they'd be not only easy to play and trick by someone (who knew how they tend to behave and react) but they may as well play themselves and stuck into some sort of certaintity that the other one knows/did something while none of them is truly responsible.

Are you suggesting they suspect each other, but none of them is actually responsible for whatever happened? And that person X knows this and has played them against each other?

 

[beubeubeu]

Are you suggesting they suspect each other, but none of them is actually responsible for whatever happened? And that person X knows this and has played them against each other?

Yes. Or that cause of very unfortunate mixture of challenging-to-go-along-with personalities and tensions they ended up playing themselves.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Are you suggesting they suspect each other, but none of them is actually responsible for whatever happened? And that person X knows this and has played them against each other?

I don't know anybody that doesn't think DA is not involved in some way Including some of her kids.

 

[beubeubeu]

I don't know anybody that doesn't think DA is not involved in some way Including some of her kids.

It may be more likely that she is, cause no shortage of cases where everything is kinda clear but doesn't go anywhere cause of the lack of proofs to prosecute - yet also no shortage of cases where everyone was sure that person X did it and had some (or even plenty of good reasons) to think that just to learn after many years that nope, someone else did it.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Fair enough. She did share on this forum when she took the polygraphs. I just wondered if maybe her statements to them (FWPD/Rangers) might've had a bearing on FWPD's reopening the case and the 2001 press conference.

I'll correct myself here. DA took the polygraphs  after the press conference (2002, 2003), so it wouldn't have been the results of those which prompted the presser, but possibly vice versa (the "twenty new witnesses", perhaps).
So I guess the big question would be: was DA directly involved in the girls' disappearance, merely have insider knowledge of what happened, or does she really not have a clue what happened (the polygraphs were a problem because she didn't want to 'air out her dirty laundry', so to speak)?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I don't know anybody that doesn't think DA is not involved in some way Including some of her kids.

And she could very well be, but...there's someone else in this saga whose kid has publicly accused her of lying about her knowledge of/involvement in this case. Someone who has seemingly successfully avoided all the mud-slinging. Someone who's never taken a polygraph or been "drilled" by LE (that I'm aware of).

 

[cckp72]

And she could very well be, but...there's someone else in this saga whose kid has publicly accused her of lying about her knowledge of/involvement in this case. Someone who has seemingly successfully avoided all the mud-slinging. Someone who's never taken a polygraph or been "drilled" by LE (that I'm aware of).

And who might that be?

 

[Brightchaser47]

also no shortage of cases where everyone was sure that person X did it and had some (or even plenty of good reasons) to think that just to learn after many years that nope, someone else did it.

The Carla Walker case comes to mind...

 

[Brightchaser47]

General question: Have any of the three missing girls ever been declared deceased? Can't recall if I've ever seen anything in regard to that. Seems strange, given the amount of time since their disappearance (fifty years next year).

NO......Actually they could still be runaways.

In light of the fact that the mothers reluctantly admitted the girls "are probably dead" (even FA-once), and all indications (psychics, etc) were the girls were "unable to return", it's interesting that no one had any of the three girls legally declared dead. I realize the W and M families likely weren't emotionally willing/able to call it, but what about the A family and TT? Was there a legal or financial advantage to filing for divorce over declaring Rachel dead?

 

[FW_Froggy]

And who might that be?

My guess is that might be TT's first Ex Wife.

 

[FW_Froggy]

In light of the fact that the mothers reluctantly admitted the girls "are probably dead" (even FA-once), and all indications (psychics, etc) were the girls were "unable to return", it's interesting that no one had any of the three girls legally declared dead. I realize the W and M families likely weren't emotionally willing/able to call it, but what about the A family and TT? Was there a legal or financial advantage to filing for divorce over declaring Rachel dead?

Unless you have life insurance that requires that there is probably no advantage to declare a person dead. Soldiers are called MIA. I think TT used abandonment to apply for his divorce ( there is also talk that his divorce from Rachel was never granted ).

 

[snakefinger]

Unless you have life insurance that requires that there is probably no advantage to declare a person dead. Soldiers are called MIA. I think TT used abandonment to apply for his divorce ( there is also talk that his divorce from Rachel was never granted ).

I suppose there is a possibility that none of the three families have/had policies on their respective children. I'm not sure how law enforcement classifies them at this point, given the amount of time passed and their respective ages (if alive).

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm not sure how law enforcement classifies them at this point, given the amount of time passed and their respective ages (if alive).

Since LE isn't currently investigating the case, and there's no evidence of foul play, they're probably still on paper as simply "missing".

 

[Brightchaser47]

VB is interesting. It's interesting TM never talked about VB till after he died. It's interesting VB had no supervision and seems like he could a been anywhere at any time. It's interesting that VB worked for the Wedgwood Cobbler who repaired all the well to do peoples shoes. It's interesting that VB was DA's age. It's interesting VB went to California days after the disappearance. The drinking whiskey story is interesting. The fact that JM has no memory of that day is interesting. The fact that TM has selective memory of that day is interesting. The fact that nobody really knows where VB was living on the 23'd is interesting. Yep VB is interesting.

I think it wasn't safe for TM to talk to or about VB for a time. I think VB placed himself at the mall with the girls (initially) to cover for having been in a compromising situation elsewhere. I think TM has selective memory because he was also in a compromising situation elsewhere. JM doesn't remember  anything because she knows where TM and VB were, and what they were doing, and was sworn to secrecy...JMO
As  beubeubeu posted on an earlier thread, no one's stories are consistent, but the reason may be unrelated to the girls' disappearance. The theory I've just shared is an example of that.

 

[Toniab329]

Hi everyone.

So, I've been interested in this case for a long time, but never thought to look it up on Websleuths until after listening to the Gone Cold podcast. I read all the threads and was caught up until about 6-8 months ago, but now I've caught up again, and all that to say--I have a couple of things to touch on that have been brought up recently(ish).

First, the pretty startling (to me) revelation that FW Cat was friends with DA. I believe it was FW_Froggy who shared that, and I don't know if that was just based on the two seen talking to each other during the car-raising event, or if they (sorry, I don't know your gender, Froggy) know that Cat and DA are long time friends. But this occurred to me....maybe DA told Cat something about what happened during that time period. I don't mean a confession, or anything directly relating to the disappearance. FW Cat said that the infamous bowling alley fight started because TT found out (I believe she said or implied that he found out from DA) that Rachel was not pregnant when she and TT got married, which was the reason he married her. Maybe DA DID tell her that part. If so, IMO, that takes the "killed her in a rage when he found out she'd been with VB" theory a whole new credence.

Next, something that's been discussed ad nauseum--the letter. I don't know who wrote it (but I'm inclined to believe whoever said they'd seen it in or on the house before the disappearance). One thing I'm certain of, is that the person who wrote it didn't write the envelope--not one letter on it looks the same. So, for all that EVERYone else in this story seems suspicious and/or is hiding something, the letter brings it back to the two people who were present when it supposedly arrived. So....the podcast True Crime Garage did an episode on this case. No new info, but one of the reasons I like this show is that the hosts can sometimes be pretty insightful IMO. One of the things they said was, regarding the last L in Rachel that looks like it was originally an E. Nic's theory was that it was written by someone who's used to writing two Es.....he thought Renee wrote it. Under duress maybe, I didn't pay much attention because I don't see how it matters if Renee wrote it. But then....Beubeubeu shares that ST's middle name is Renee. Hmmm.

I've always wondered, as I think most of us have, about her allegedly seeing the girls at Minot. None of it makes sense, not only the confusion about where/who Shawn was supposed to be with that day, but also the fact that not one person who claims to have seen the girls when Rachel came to pick them up on Gordon have said Shawn was present WHY would she make up a story about being possibly the last one to see the girls? The only thing I can think of is to place her car on Minot in case someone saw it.

I can't figure out what part she might have played in the disappearance though. I can't imagine that DA and ST would cover for her if she did something--and I can't imagine why she would want to harm any of them--but I also can't imagine she'd risk serious trouble to help cover up for her ex husband, even for financial reasons. Of course, like most of the characters in this tragedy, we don't know much about who they actually are She might be just the type of person to do that.

Ok, that's a lot of words to say basically nothing important, but maybe something to mull over. I appreciate everyone who keeps this thread active.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Hi everyone.

So, I've been interested in this case for a long time, but never thought to look it up on Websleuths until after listening to the Gone Cold podcast. I read all the threads and was caught up until about 6-8 months ago, but now I've caught up again, and all that to say--I have a couple of things to touch on that have been brought up recently(ish).

First, the pretty startling (to me) revelation that FW Cat was friends with DA. I believe it was FW_Froggy who shared that, and I don't know if that was just based on the two seen talking to each other during the car-raising event, or if they (sorry, I don't know your gender, Froggy) know that Cat and DA are long time friends. But this occurred to me....maybe DA told Cat something about what happened during that time period. I don't mean a confession, or anything directly relating to the disappearance. FW Cat said that the infamous bowling alley fight started because TT found out (I believe she said or implied that he found out from DA) that Rachel was not pregnant when she and TT got married, which was the reason he married her. Maybe DA DID tell her that part. If so, IMO, that takes the "killed her in a rage when he found out she'd been with VB" theory a whole new credence.

Next, something that's been discussed ad nauseum--the letter. I don't know who wrote it (but I'm inclined to believe whoever said they'd seen it in or on the house before the disappearance). One thing I'm certain of, is that the person who wrote it didn't write the envelope--not one letter on it looks the same. So, for all that EVERYone else in this story seems suspicious and/or is hiding something, the letter brings it back to the two people who were present when it supposedly arrived. So....the podcast True Crime Garage did an episode on this case. No new info, but one of the reasons I like this show is that the hosts can sometimes be pretty insightful IMO. One of the things they said was, regarding the last L in Rachel that looks like it was originally an E. Nic's theory was that it was written by someone who's used to writing two Es.....he thought Renee wrote it. Under duress maybe, I didn't pay much attention because I don't see how it matters if Renee wrote it. But then....Beubeubeu shares that ST's middle name is Renee. Hmmm.

I've always wondered, as I think most of us have, about her allegedly seeing the girls at Minot. None of it makes sense, not only the confusion about where/who Shawn was supposed to be with that day, but also the fact that not one person who claims to have seen the girls when Rachel came to pick them up on Gordon have said Shawn was present WHY would she make up a story about being possibly the last one to see the girls? The only thing I can think of is to place her car on Minot in case someone saw it.

I can't figure out what part she might have played in the disappearance though. I can't imagine that DA and ST would cover for her if she did something--and I can't imagine why she would want to harm any of them--but I also can't imagine she'd risk serious trouble to help cover up for her ex husband, even for financial reasons. Of course, like most of the characters in this tragedy, we don't know much about who they actually are She might be just the type of person to do that.

Ok, that's a lot of words to say basically nothing important, but maybe something to mull over. I appreciate everyone who keeps this thread active.

Welcome to the group Toniab329. FW_Cat lived a couple houses from where DA lived growing up in Edgecliff and where FA still lives. KA says she has a handwriting expert that will testify in court that TT wrote both the letter and the envelope. I myself think TT and DA both wrote parts and that's why the FBI said it was inconclusive JMO.

 

[T rex]

First, the pretty startling (to me) revelation that FW Cat was friends with DA. I believe it was FW_Froggy who shared that, and I don't know if that was just based on the two seen talking to each other during the car-raising event, or if they (sorry, I don't know your gender, Froggy) know that Cat and DA are long time friends. But this occurred to me....maybe DA told Cat something about what happened during that time period. I don't mean a confession, or anything directly relating to the disappearance. FW Cat said that the infamous bowling alley fight started because TT found out (I believe she said or implied that he found out from DA) that Rachel was not pregnant when she and TT got married, which was the reason he married her. Maybe DA DID tell her that part. If so, IMO, that takes the "killed her in a rage when he found out she'd been with VB" theory a whole new credence.

FW Cat also openly admitted here that she sent RA on a wild goose chase regarding the two cars and that there had never been two cars. So what excactly was RA doing and saying just prior to this that made one of DA's good friends feel the need to mislead him in this way?
Because whatever it was maybe he should consider going back to it.