TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[jetsfanjohn]

RSBM
Gone Cold-Texas True Crime podcast did a pretty thorough (imo) seven-part series on the Fort Worth Missing Trio. There are a number of podcasts out there about the Trio, but this is one of the better ones (again, imo).

That is a very good podcast series.

I would recommend the Diealogue podcast and the Nancy Grace podcast, also. Both of these podcasts talk with relatives of the missing girls.

 

[DD Byrd]

It seems to me one thing that's never changed is LE believing they left the mall w/ someone "they trusted." So (assuming the trio was there), I'm circling back on who that would be? If not family/friend, LE or mall security guard (or someone dressed like one). Key here is Renee wanting to get back to prep for the new bf party. Barring any obvious signs of danger, that prep is a likely prompt for a teenager to get in a car/van. Double that if they were also running late.

Could the car have been temporarily disabled by someone who either saw them arrive in the Olds from outside or was in the mall and knew the trio...then headed out to the lot? He/she/they would know Rachel had to be the driver and it would be her car they came in. Rachel (and a lot of folks in '74) might not have locked the car. The girls get back and surprise it won't start, Renee (and Rachel/Julie on her behalf) now gets jumpy. Up rides the guard to save the day...with an oh shucks, I'll take you home, no problem. (side note - curious when the actual day-guard shift was over?). Or forget the disabling entirely and the guard has a gun and hustles them into a van. If one girl has a gun in her ribs (Julie IMO since she could most easily be physically picked up during this), likely the other 2 don't make a peep. Meanwhile, unless you're paying attention to and/or actually look for these things, a bystander could truly not even notice, esp if the girls are now in shock and this only took seconds. Think of children that are led away from all sorts of places and it's not noticed. At a mall at Christmas, people are scurrying around thinking through their shopping lists or watching their own children in a crowded parking lot. Also, we don't know if this might have been at twilight if they were running late. Just because Julie's mother is calling the mall doesn't mean she isn't still there.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Any link to where it is stated that he allegedly found the Olds at the Mall ? I always thought family members were the first to find it ? Seems a bit suspicious if it was actually this guy who found it first.

That is a very good podcast series.

I would recommend the Diealogue podcast and the Nancy Grace podcast, also. Both of these podcasts talk with relatives of the missing girls.

Eureka! Renee's dad tells about Mr. Warren finding the Olds on the Nancy Grace podcast.

 

[T rex]

It seems to me one thing that's never changed is LE believing they left the mall w/ someone "they trusted." So (assuming the trio was there), I'm circling back on who that would be? If not family/friend, LE or mall security guard (or someone dressed like one). Key here is Renee wanting to get back to prep for the new bf party. Barring any obvious signs of danger, that prep is a likely prompt for a teenager to get in a car/van. Double that if they were also running late.

Could the car have been temporarily disabled by someone who either saw them arrive in the Olds from outside or was in the mall and knew the trio...then headed out to the lot? He/she/they would know Rachel had to be the driver and it would be her car they came in. Rachel (and a lot of folks in '74) might not have locked the car. The girls get back and surprise it won't start, Renee (and Rachel/Julie on her behalf) now gets jumpy. Up rides the guard to save the day...with an oh shucks, I'll take you home, no problem. (side note - curious when the actual day-guard shift was over?). Or forget the disabling entirely and the guard has a gun and hustles them into a van. If one girl has a gun in her ribs (Julie IMO since she could most easily be physically picked up during this), likely the other 2 don't make a peep. Meanwhile, unless you're paying attention to and/or actually look for these things, a bystander could truly not even notice, esp if the girls are now in shock and this only took seconds. Think of children that are led away from all sorts of places and it's not noticed. At a mall at Christmas, people are scurrying around thinking through their shopping lists or watching their own children in a crowded parking lot. Also, we don't know if this might have been at twilight if they were running late. Just because Julie's mother is calling the mall doesn't mean she isn't still there.

If security wanted to gain control over them I think it would be easier to just accuse them of shoplifting.

I'm curious too about the shift changes when I look at this scenario. Hutchins claims he saw the girls in a truck with mall security and the person he named refuted this. I would just like to know who was driving that truck on the previous shift. It's possible Hutchins could be covering for someone, including himself. I think LE possibly could have spooked him in to thinking they had DNA with that 2002 press release. Or Bill Hutchins was just full of it and injected himself into this case for some other reason.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If security wanted to gain control over them I think it would be easier to just accuse them of shoplifting.

Yep

I'm curious too about the shift changes when I look at this scenario. Hutchins claims he saw the girls in a truck with mall security and the person he named refuted this. I would just like to know who was driving that truck on the previous shift. It's possible Hutchins could be covering for someone, including himself. I think LE possibly could have spooked him in to thinking they had DNA with that 2002 press release. Or Bill Hutchins was just full of it and injected himself into this case for some other reason.

Hutchins is still on my shady list (along with Wilbanks). One thing the two men have in common (besides LE) is their jobs entail regular interaction with youth. js

 

[tilomagnet]

The problem with explaining it as a stranger abduction will always be the letter.

I also doubt LE would describe mall security as "someone they knew and trusted" but I wouldnt put much stock in that statement anyway.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Eureka! Renee's dad tells about Mr. Warren finding the Olds on the Nancy Grace podcast.

That is a very good podcast, with some great guests, but the host should not have interrupted so much.

No idea who Mr. Warren is, but I find it strange that he was the last person to see Renee according to her MP report and is the first to find the car :-/ . He would have to have literally been involved in the initial search. I would be curious as to how he first found out the girls where missing and who told him ? This was the pre cell phone era !!

 

[tilomagnet]

The Nancy Grace podcast....the host is terrible. very hard to listen to for me, I felt sorry for Mr. Wilson that he had to put up with that to get attention to the case.

Texas Gone cold is much more pleasant to listen to and is a good overview. He does not go far out with speculation either.

 

[Brightchaser47]

No idea who Mr. Warren is, but I find it strange that he was the last person to see Renee according to her MP report and is the first to find the car :-/ . He would have to have literally been involved in the initial search.

RSBM
Yep

I would be curious as to how he first found out the girls where missing and who told him ? This was the pre cell phone era !!

Good point. It almost seems as though no one thought to question this-- he was seen as a trustworthy adoptive relative-- when he could actually be a key piece to solving the puzzle. Having said that, it's possible that Renee's parents kept in touch with her grandmother by phone/payphone, once they got to the mall, and she phoned Mr. Warren (who was actually her brother-in-law, IIRC), who could've then gone to the mall to help search. jmo
ETA: Still doesn't explain how he found the car so fast when RW hadn't had any luck, but it would explain how he knew about the search....

 

[Brightchaser47]

I also doubt LE would describe mall security as "someone they knew and trusted" but I wouldnt put much stock in that statement anyway.

RSBM
I believe Det. Boetcher was a good investigator and may have made progress in the case, but I do wonder whether any colleagues of his influenced his thinking, or steered him in a particular direction. jmo

 

[DD Byrd]

If not the parking lot, my second take was the guards accused them of shoplifting in the mall rather than at an exit. But did SS have any underground parking, or just delivery bays? I can see 3 girls getting into a guard's vehicle thinking they were being taken to a police station. Is there a wisp of a chance one of them WAS shoplifting and an interaction with a guard went very wrong? Not pleasant to talk about, but it would explain some things, namely why a letter would be written to deflect toward Houston and bother to explain where the car was, by someone who didn't leave it there but saw where it was. As for "Thomas," Rachel might have been asked for a contact's legal name.

I don't know what to make of Rachel's mother in the interview where she says Rachel may have been seen in a red sports car after the incident. Even with editing, to me it's simply stated, rather than 'this should be followed up on" or "I don't believe it." It's so noncommittal but maybe the A family's vibe was different than the Wilsons.

 

[DD Byrd]

Mr. Warren (who was actually her brother-in-law, IIRC

Another rabbit hole I wasn't aware of. Meanwhile, are there any filmed interviews with Julie's brother?

 

[T rex]

Most of the discussions I have seen regarding this case have been the same old ones that have been pounded to death and just seem to go around in circles but I haven't seen much focus on Gordon Ave and the surrounding neighborhood. Maybe that's where we need to be looking for answers.

 

[T rex]

Another rabbit hole I wasn't aware of. Meanwhile, are there any filmed interviews with Julie's brother?

I don't know about filmed but that GC podcast has him taped, I'm not sure if it was orginal to GC or not.IIRC, in it he gives the names of some people (mostly ones we already knew about) that were in his yard that day but then goes on to say something to the effect of there may have been some others there and then laughs it off. I found that to be strange but maybe he was more forthcoming to LE and he doesn't owe us anything. I'm just saying that I'm fairly certain that there was other people there that we don't know about.

 

[DD Byrd]

I couldn't find the original Gone Cold, but I think I've found from 2 on. Going to wade through these.

 

[tilomagnet]

Here's the first part (and all 7 of them if you search)

The Fort Worth Missing Trio Part 1: Julie Moseley, Renee Wilson, & Rachel Trlica

On December 23rd, 1974, just a couple days before Christmas, three girls – 17-year-old Rachel Trlica, 14-year-old Renee Wilson, and 9-year-old Julie Moseley �

www.spreaker.com

 

[Brightchaser47]

I don't know about filmed but that GC podcast has him taped, I'm not sure if it was orginal to GC or not.IIRC, in it he gives the names of some people (mostly ones we already knew about) that were in his yard that day but then goes on to say something to the effect of there may have been some others there and then laughs it off. I found that to be strange but maybe he was more forthcoming to LE and he doesn't owe us anything.

RSBM
You're right in that he doesn't owe us an explanation, and he may/may not have told LE what he knows, but I'd feel a lot better if I knew that LE properly handled all the information they were given in this case.....

I'm just saying that I'm fairly certain that there was other people there that we don't know about.

I would agree with that. And those "other people" are probably the missing link...

 

[DD Byrd]

Here's the first part (and all 7 of them if you search)

The Fort Worth Missing Trio Part 1: Julie Moseley, Renee Wilson, & Rachel Trlica

On December 23rd, 1974, just a couple days before Christmas, three girls – 17-year-old Rachel Trlica, 14-year-old Renee Wilson, and 9-year-old Julie Moseley �

www.spreaker.com

thanks!

 

[DD Byrd]

Welp, that was rabbit hole central, but worth the listen. I feel like Rachels' brother, Renee's father and PI Dan could've solved this w/o outside interference (or familial crossfire). Perhaps they did, since I'd like to know the exact theory Renee's father kept to himself per GC. Meanwhile, I started with 'unique' events to December 23rd most would consider facts and tried not to derail from there.

1) Renee's promise ring. Might someone (of a few potentials) have been triggered? Yes. To manifest as a triple disappearance? Probably not, unless there's an unexpected, likely dramatic unknown piece of the puzzle; maybe further heightened if coupled with inebriation-fueled emotion and especially shock. At that point, all logic/rational thinking is out. I still maintain the whole thing snowballed and was impulsive, however it unfolded. Add shock and/or a blackout and the possibilities broaden. Anyway, Virgil. Renee's brother not recalling drinking whiskey w/ him 'before work,' doesn't mean V wasn't the same morning. Was he confirmed at work and if not, where was he? More imp, why is he Renee's father's FIRST thought, enough to drive to his house (to find him not there). This piques my interest the most within the few facts in this case because it's real-time and raw. Dad didn't hypothesize and formulate suspicion over days, he drove to V's house. I find that telling, at the very least to his gut reaction to her wellbeing, considering she could hold her own according to her brother. He might've just gone to kick V's and collect his daughter, but my point is he appears to have immediately thought Renee was with V.

I'm trying to find more info on V's 'hitchhiking,' because if he didn't have a car, he might've been in Rachel's. Speculation: V does go with them to the mall. He either didn't enter the A/N or joined them after a trip back to one of the houses. Side tangent - ff Rachel's house, it might trigger her sister calling TT, "guess who Rachel brought home? neener neener." That could inflame TT and no way to know, but back to Rachel's sister later. As for the trio coming back to Rachel's after A/N but before the mall, I see it as a distinct possibility. To double-check Rachel's sister hadn't changed her mind about coming and/or borrow some money from her? To drop off something Rachel purchased she wanted to hang up right away? To pick up some of Rachel's clothes to see what goes with what at the mall or for Renee to borrow for the party (since she's to be dropped back of at her grandmother's)? For something as inane as Rachel forgot her wallet and didn't notice at A/N because they were there for Renee? And lastly, to call another person/s to meet them at the mall? You might go to a house (Rachel's, Renee's/her grandmother's or Julie's) instead of a payphone if someone also had to go to the bathroom while a call was made or to look up that person's number.

2) Julie was a surprise addition. Back at A/N, if Julie wasn't seen inside, but V was with them, is she in the Olds trying whiskey (potentially unbeknownst to R and R inside)? Pure speculation, but I don't think it's impossible, and not as obvious as some other leads could be, letting it fly under the radar. If V did indeed have his whiskey, did they all have some after the mall and little Julie passed out and/or aspirated? Or both before and after for Julie, who knows. She might try it to be like the big girls, and had more than anyone realized if they were even aware. She might have snuck it on her own while whoever was flirting. Backing up, if Rachel offered to drive V home and they were early leaving the mall, even Renee would have time to hang at V's. This also brings another location into the mix. Just having Julie hammered would upend the day, but if she's in actual distress everyone would full-on panic for multiple reasons. Mixed with some alleged 'allegiances' or at least feelings (V for Renee and vice-versa, and something between V and Rachel even Renee's father noted) muddying their thoughts, this becomes split-second and disastrous decision making. If something happened at V's house, did Rachel write the letter in a panic/under coercion? Could "we had to get away" be to sober Julie up and buy time? Renee would miss her party for that scenario, the wrath of everyone, esp Julie's parents would be enough to leave for a bit. And Julie would likely not "tell" since she'd be grounded for life and liked Renee. That's enough of a fiasco, but if Julie choked/seized/fell down the stairs and died, IMO the girls would tell authorities. V might not, or want 2 witnesses to manslaughter of a child. Texas executes people and asks questions later to never. And desperate people can, and will, do desperate things. Could he have taken Rachel's car back to SS, dropped the letter at the place Renee's father mentions near the mall, and hitchhiked himself back home? Or was his own car still at SS and Rachel had taken him home because he shouldn't have been behind the wheel. Families weren't looking for the Olds yet, and he likely knew Renee wasn't expected until 4pm since she'd likely remind everyone...so he'd have time to get rid of bodies, if not necessarily think it through completely. Dumb luck could have them quickly dumped in a marsh and not ever found (which holds true for any perp/s). Even with time of the essence, might he have called another known person for help? Of the main characters in this case, were Rachel and Renee the only females he had some sort or relationship with? I'm thinking someone else who might take the letter (but didn't write it). Of course, the letter could be completely omitted from this scenario because it only fits loosely...but it's postmarked before days' end and ended up with an addressed envelope. More on that later.

3) Rachel's sister is living with her and TT. That dynamic on it's own is interesting, but I'd like to hear more about her angry ex-roommates. From Dallas, according to GC. And possibly what all she was involved with that could have made her a target. It would be a hell of a coincidence if someone came for her at the exact time Rachel, Renee and Julie pull up to the house. But could the trio have witnessed something? Or were thought to have witnessed something? I believe the "letter" didn't originally intend to say "Houston." If it was started as "Dallas," it might've been familiar to the writer and changed to the other direction, or was in-fact just a destination. The sister's involvement with who-knows-what is one possibility that IMO could explain why this hasn't been solved. We know statistically it's someone who knew one/two/all of the victims and close to home. But if not, it would be harder to solve and the more ethereal "outsider" clues would further dissipate in the finger-pointing and general dysfunction surrounding the case and it's known core individuals.

4) First Christmas for Rachel and her stepson. I'm thinking of TT's Ex picking up the baby just as the trio departs. This was murky on GC, but 'everyone wearing coats' half raised a flag for me. My guess is the Ex is remembering a different day; but unless I interpreted it incorrectly she thought the trio was there, not just Rachel backing her car out. I can think of few scenarios to fuel instant rage than your child's safety. TT's input, if any, would be irrelevant to a mama bear, and she may have acted on her own (I'm dubious) or had other connections we don't know. I've assumed Ex was ok with having her son in Rachels care in the first place...was she? Or could a simmering pot have boiled over (with a non-intended outcome)?

5) The letter is created or revised. I was today year's old when I learned the possibility the letter was seen on the door of the house much earlier, but it reinforces my belief the original was written for another purpose, at a different time, and as a standalone without an envelope. As for Rachel's sister bringing it to police, then returning to get that envelope...it changes the trajectory of everything with endless questions. If the note (and I believe it was meant as a note) was doctored, was it before or after it ended up in TT's house? The envelope taken on it's own looks like one you'd send a (timely, Christmas) card in addressed more formally with a full name. I think it was just repurposed. For the note, I'm iffy on the last sentences being added, although the lower case "t"s don't match among other things. The main takeaway IMO is the body handwriting doesn't match the address handwriting in size, style, or pressure, all hallmarks of individuality. For me, the "Rachel" on the return matches the "Love, Rachel" one but doesn't match the address writing, so that's key. Disregarding all the post office issues...if Rachel had written the note herself, she then put it in a previously opened envelope addressed formally to TT in someone else's hand? As for pencil versus pen, all it says to me is they weren't written at the same time, until and if you think the handwriting is different. All in all, it sounds like it was a partial or complete note (written by Rachel or not) that possibly a 2nd person wanted others to think was mailed in a knee-jerk attempt to create distance. It very well could have been placed in the mailbox, and an innocent or not party made things worse by at some point linking it to a completely unrelated envelope. Likely at the last second.

To me, whatever happened was tragic but fairly straightforward, and it's the 'after' keeping it unsolved. I see few facts wholly overshadowed by early misinformation and omissions. Sadly, I think some of the omissions were likely meant to simply to deflect away from unrelated dirty laundry or relationships and/or the appearance of involvement rather than actual involvement. But they intertwined with pursuable criminality and tangled everything.

I'll put a cork in it for awhile, I'm to try Nancy Grace's episode next.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I don't know about acquaintances of TT or shop workers but I do believe Rachel was acquainted with people her sister knew. I'm wary of most information coming from the PI's in this case but I do think James got it right when he said that Rachel was in DA's circle of friends. I think it's likely that DA regularly introduced Rachel to people that she knew.

RSBM
DA was very good friends with Lecia McGee's older syster Debbie in high school. In an interview, Lecia's other sister Lori shared that Lecia was passionate about field hockey and aspired to be a PE teacher. According to DA and TT, Rachel wanted to go to college and be a PE teacher. Interesting...
So, yes-- it's quite plausible that Rachel was acquainted with her sister's circle. Given Lecia's murder, that circle may have included some very shady characters, who may or may not have been complicit in the Trio's disappearance. jmo