TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[T rex]

RSBM
I'd thought questionable business practices, too. But to still be misdirecting 50+ years later! There has to be knowledge, complicity,  something more at play than just questionable business practices. Now if the business were used as a front for something involving minors....that's a different story. jmo

I agree. If it was just some shady business it seems to me it would have to be the reason or a catalyst for the girls disappearance. The reason they want muddy water is because of the girls and what ever else goes along with it. It's all about getting away with murder, not a business practice. JMO.

 

[T rex]

I want to float a theory and want you guys to tear it apart, poke holes, etc. What if the person responsible was very near to where some of the girls lived? What is that person to have done some pretty rough things in the past and maybe in the present but you overlook it because they are your neighbor and "just don't seem like the kind of person that could do something like that." But they are familiar to the girls and the things going on in the lives of some of the families from proximity and time spent? And then what if that person was involved in some significant way. It would easy to lure girls into a car because this person is know and we've known him all our lives.

After the girls disappear, what if that person who likely had work, hobby and living proximity made it no secret of being involved and in fact threatened surviving family members and people close and told them what the person would do if anyone talked. It wouldn't just be the person that talked that would be dealt with, it would be family members, friends, etc. And if this person was known to have killed and disposed of before, what's to say that people ran and other started acting fishy, messing up timelines and clamming up because they were afraid to talk. They were afraid for their lives and it was real imminent danger both closely and with a network that could make bad things happen?. What if every action was governed by the fear of losing a spouse, another child, a friend, a neighbor, etc.?

Does that explain motivations? Does that capture enough data points? Is it viable?

Again, poke holes and tear it apart.

It was a poster by the name of Goldenlancehead that posted a theory that was similar to this. It's plausible. Thread #5, post #916.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

It was a poster by the name of Goldenlancehead that posted a theory that was similar to this. It's plausible. Thread #5, post #916.

I seem to recall there were suspicions that 'Goldenlancehead' was the PI Dan James. As you say his theory seemed plausible, but it was a shame that he never returned to put more details on the theory.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

The polygraph statement really means nothing. Polygraphs aren't evidence that can be used in court. If the police really knew they should be uncovering evidence not making excuses about the suspect passing a polygraph.
You can completely fail a polygraph and it can never be mentioned at trial.

I agree polygraph tests are not much use. Not sure if the police had anything else to go on, though.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

@jetsfanjohn I'd like to hear more. I don't disagree with your assessment of the letter but I'm curious as to why you think that precludes a neighbor.

Running with the theory of it being a neighbour, do you think the neighbour got the girls into his car at the parking lot in the Mall, or do you think he abducted the girls, elsewhere ? A neighbour of one of the girls could easily get the girls into his vehicle on some pretext, but I tend to go with the idea that something happened away from the Mall. I don't rule out an abduction in the vicinity of the Mall, but I don't find the eyewitness accounts very convincing.

 

[pixiepixel]

What puts me off the idea of a rogue neighbour or indeed a random stranger being responsible for the girls' disappearance is the 'runaway' letter. I am of the opinion that the envelope went through the post (and was repurposed), but the letter never did.

It has been mentioned before on previous threads, that the letter was originally given to the Police, but without the envelope. If true, that is a huge red flag !!

The issue I see with your theory about the envelope is that the return address said "Rachel". Did some unrelated person just so happen to mail a letter to Thomas A. Trlica on December 26th with a blank return address? Because that's the only way I can see the envelope being unrelated.

 

[T rex]

The issue I see with your theory about the envelope is that the return address said "Rachel". Did some unrelated person just so happen to mail a letter to Thomas A. Trlica on December 26th with a blank return address? Because that's the only way I can see the envelope being unrelated.

If I'm not mistaken they finally determined that it was sent from a kiosk at SS mall. What are the chances that an unrelated envelope would arrive without a return address on the day it was needed from that location? I'm not so sure about the letter itself. It could have been in the envelope or it could have been something else related. I personally believe the envelope may have been mailed empty. Either way I believe it is related.

 

[FWTrioDoc]

Running with the theory of it being a neighbour, do you think the neighbour got the girls into his car at the parking lot in the Mall, or do you think he abducted the girls, elsewhere ? A neighbour of one of the girls could easily get the girls into his vehicle on some pretext, but I tend to go with the idea that something happened away from the Mall. I don't rule out an abduction in the vicinity of the Mall, but I don't find the eyewitness accounts very convincing.

@jetsfanjohn these are great questions and I have no answer. I can talk myself into both options depending on the day. I can defend each position and I can argue big holes in each position so I don't know. With no real concrete timeline of the day, I don't know. I hear the witness statements and in some versions they work great and in other versions they don't. To be honest, I can't figure out a motive either. There are lots of options but they all have holes. It may sound crazy but it's why I quit trying to figure that part out. IMO this thing never moves focusing on those because the facts have been stepped on, twisted, convoluted for so many years and they've yielded nothing. There is no more clarity on those things today than 50 years ago. It's why I'm focused on the "who" did it and the "where" are the bodies. This thing never moves forward without bodies. Find bodies, then there's a case that becomes actionable again.

If I'm running with it happened at the mall and I can link one or more cars with a neighbor, then it starts to get interesting. If it's a neighbor that shared hobbies and could pull up and say "your dad is going downhill fast. you need to come with me." makes sense, especially if they were liked. And if they had some pretty questionable friends that did factually do some bad things it gets more interesting.

My theory falls apart with how did this person know when the girls were at the mall to coordinate. That's part of where the house makes more sense. Additionally, why would they do it? Did someone ask them to? Was it payback for something someone else did? Was it a misunderstanding? Why on December 23...just bored because work was slow? I cannot answer this one in any way. I'd love to be able to but no idea.

Again, I can completely be talked out of this theory as well because its hanging on by a thread but they all are.

 

[tilomagnet]

Agreed on your points. Also if it was a neighbour that implies that it was likely meant to be a triple abduction. Because if only Rachel and/or Renee were the target, then why strike on that day? unless they were under severe time pressure? there would have been other possibilities especially if the girls trusted that person. so the explanation for possible motives in the neighbour theory would be very interesting.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Additionally, why would they do it? Did someone ask them to? Was it payback for something someone else did? Was it a misunderstanding? Why on December 23...just bored because work was slow? I cannot answer this one in any way. I'd love to be able to but no idea.

RSBM
I'm considering the possibility it was payback or a dare that went south. I'm convinced the girls met--maybe even picked up--someone they knew and trusted, somewhere between Mrs. Swint's (Renee's grandmother) and Seminary South, and were lured somewhere other than the mall. Maybe Renee's promise ring, received just that morning from TM, was the catalyst
T rex mentioned. Maybe the girls' mystery passenger suggested they go show "so-and-so" Renee's ring. If "so-and-so" was a guy who wanted to date Renee (or knew one who did), that could get interesting.
Some guys don't take rejection very well. You get a jealous guy (or girl) with a bruised ego, add questionable friends and drugs/alcohol, things can happen. You consider the possibility that one or more of these kids had a shady cop for a dad, and things can be covered up and suppressed. All speculation and jmo

 

[FWTrioDoc]

RSBM
I'm considering the possibility it was payback or a dare that went south. I'm convinced the girls met--maybe even picked up--someone they knew and trusted, somewhere between Mrs. Swint's (Renee's grandmother) and Seminary South, and were lured somewhere other than the mall. Maybe Renee's promise ring, received just that morning from TM, was the catalyst
T rex mentioned. Maybe the girls' mystery passenger suggested they go show "so-and-so" Renee's ring. If "so-and-so" was a guy who wanted to date Renee (or knew one who did), that could get interesting.
Some guys don't take rejection very well. You get a jealous guy (or girl) with a bruised ego, add questionable friends and drugs/alcohol, things can happen. You consider the possibility that one or more of these kids had a shady cop for a dad, and things can be covered up and suppressed. All speculation and jmo

I think there is something to this as well. The jeans in the trunk always bothered me when there was already a present in the backseat. This is purely me projecting but unless something was in the way, my friends and I never put anything in the trunk. we threw it in the backseat, hopped in the car and took off. The jeans in the trunk, to me, were either moved to make room for another passenger or they were put there after the fact. I think this could absolutely be right that that jeans were in the backseat, someone joined them and they moved the jeans to make room so everyone had room to sit. Again, it's all assumption and very easy to poke holes but this idea of going somewhere else is completely plausible. I do not think the prevailing wisdom on who they went to see works because the factual timelines of one of the purported people doesn't work but that does not rule out other possibilities.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

RSBM
I'm considering the possibility it was payback or a dare that went south. I'm convinced the girls met--maybe even picked up--someone they knew and trusted, somewhere between Mrs. Swint's (Renee's grandmother) and Seminary South, and were lured somewhere other than the mall. Maybe Renee's promise ring, received just that morning from TM, was the catalyst
T rex mentioned. Maybe the girls' mystery passenger suggested they go show "so-and-so" Renee's ring. If "so-and-so" was a guy who wanted to date Renee (or knew one who did), that could get interesting.
Some guys don't take rejection very well. You get a jealous guy (or girl) with a bruised ego, add questionable friends and drugs/alcohol, things can happen. You consider the possibility that one or more of these kids had a shady cop for a dad, and things can be covered up and suppressed. All speculation and jmo

I too think that it is possible that there was fourth person in the car that morning. If so, it was the person who was seen with the girls at the record store. If this was the case, I don't believe that this person was directly responsible for the girls disappearing, but his being there may have led to the events that unfolded later that day.

 

[Tex Willer]

Does anyone know how Rachel usually went to school in the morning? Did she drive the Oldsmobile herself, or did someone take her there and pick her up later by car?"

 

[Brightchaser47]

Does anyone know how Rachel usually went to school in the morning? Did she drive the Oldsmobile herself, or did someone take her there and pick her up later by car?"

I'd understood she picked up Renee and drove to school.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I too think that it is possible that there was fourth person in the car that morning. If so, it was the person who was seen with the girls at the record store.

RSBM
Actually, I'm thinking this person may be female and they weren't in the record store.

I don't believe that this person was directly responsible for the girls disappearing, but his being there may have led to the events that unfolded later that day.

Partly agree. I think it's possible this person thought they were pulling a prank to suggest the girls show off Renee's ring, thinking it would cause a stir, but it caused a bigger stir than expected. jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

I think there is something to this as well. The jeans in the trunk always bothered me when there was already a present in the backseat.

RSBM
I think we need to consider the possibility that more than just the jeans were moved around in the car. Just because the wrapped gift for little ST was found in the floorboard of the back seat doesn't mean it was there the entire time. It could've been moved to the trunk at some point, too. Then when the car was left at SS, the gift was put back in the floorboard-- also a bit of 'staging'. jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

It's been debated whether VB was actually with the girls at any point that day. Rather than rehash that, I'll just say it does make sense for Renee's dad to think of him right off-- especially if any of the kids on Gordon happened to mention Renee getting the ring-- since VB had asked to date Renee and been flatly rejected. Having said that, there may have been someone else in Renee's life who wanted to date her, that Dad didn't know about, but others did. jmo

 

[T rex]

I personally believe the envelope may have been mailed empty. Either way I believe it is related.

SBM

After rereading this I feel like I should clarify these statements as they only fit into a theory where TT is involved or has knowledge of what happened. The way I have been looking at this is if TT was involved then he probably killed them but if he didn't kill them then he's probably not involved but has been kept in the dark like the rest of us and played like a fiddle. Yet now other theories where TT is not directly involved but does have knowledge seem both possible and plausible. Lately I've been leaning towards the fiddle theory but I don't know. I wish that I could settle on one but it's hard in this case.

 

[DD Byrd]

Other than all 3 girls unwittingly finding themselves witness to something involving someone/s they could then identify, I've never come up with a motive to killing 3 young girls at the same time. There wouldn't be piecemeal motives. I can, however, think of several scenarios where two and certainly one was a target and the other two had to be silenced but were not intended victims. Then, as now, people kill for seemingly small reasons, but it would have to be something big to take out 3 people, let alone young girls and one very young one. I'm guessing all 3 could identify at least the place if not the people. Julie would be doomed if she either recognized (or knew) a perpetrator, but also the place. If they were strangers but it went down as so-and-so's house or business, you can't let Julie free.

As for why it hasn't been solved, I believe there are people still alive who could be prosecuted, either as perpetrators or accessories. Less likely but still possible is allegiance to a killer/s now deceased, perhaps in consideration of current family. What I find curious is that even with all of these people, there isn't much known about classmates or friends beyond the key players. One would think the rumor mill would have led to some leads, even if they were false leads. A triple disappearance and assumed murder doesn't quiet an entire community from gossip.

Does anyone know of any other unexpected deaths or accidents, or people who left town within a year of the disappearances?

 

[Chypre]

As for why it hasn't been solved, I believe there are people still alive who could be prosecuted, either as perpetrators or accessories. Less likely but still possible is allegiance to a killer/s now deceased, perhaps in consideration of current family. What I find curious is that even with all of these people, there isn't much known about classmates or friends beyond the key players. One would think the rumor mill would have led to some leads, even if they were false leads. A triple disappearance and assumed murder doesn't quiet an entire community.

There were Facebook sites that exploded and imploded with people that wrote they knew them and different events for the timeline.