TX - Longview, WhtFem (UP 9863), 41-50, Suicide - Assumed Identity, Dec'10

[fred&edna]

In Oregon there was a BXXXX JXXXX NXXX (his last name is the same name of the Biblical ark-builder ) his birth date is the same as stated in FLEK's obit. He died Aug 1993 (due to an altercation with a state trooper). His SS# was issued in Oregon (543) and he has a relative named Laura. But, even if this is meaningful... where do we look from here??

 

[maxime]

Everytime I saw the age-progression picture from Annette Sagers I think that this could be this woman.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sagers_annette.html
But I don't know whether it was ever connected together.

 

[bessie]

I have to agree with you, Maxime. The resemblance is close. And then there's the fact the decedant was living under an assumed identity, and Annette likely was, too, Her mother disappeared in 1987. In 1988, Annette disappeared leaving behind a note for her father saying, "Dad, momma came back." Annette had two little brothers at home with their father, and they've had no contact with Annette or their mother since then. I hope we're both wrong. Annette's relatives are posting on her thread.

SPOTLIGHT CASE SC - Annette Deanne Sagers, 11, Mount Holly, 4 Oct 1988 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sagers_annette.html

Annette Sagers
age progression

Annette Sagers
c. 1988

Annette Sagers
age progression 2003
NCMEC

 

[dizzigirl1]

I agree, they do look very alike, however, i am not sure that the photo from 1990 where this UID looks to be around 21 shows similarities with Annette's photo as an 11yr old in 1988 - there is something about the two photos side by side that i cannot put my finger on & its bugging me. After reading through Annette's story, if there was any connection to this one, i could see why this UID felt the need to change who they were. The dates certainly fit. 1988 with the new ID but no disrespect intended i dont think this UID was born in the late 70's more the late 60's like me. I hope i make a bit more sense. Sometimes i am a worry lol.

 

[OkieGranny]

Everytime I saw the age-progression picture from Annette Sagers I think that this could be this woman.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sagers_annette.html
But I don't know whether it was ever connected together.

Oh, my stars, Maxime, have you visited the Annette Sagers thread today? Someone found what she suspects is the FB page of Annette's also-missing mother Korinna and posted side by side pictures; the resemblance is just... wow. Same nose, same chin, same cheekbones, same eyes, even the same undereye bags. If that's not mother and daughter, I'll eat my shorts. But the mother doesn't resemble this woman much at all, IMO. It's down toward the bottom of Page 4; go take a look and see what you think. Here's the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115334&page=4

 

[OkieGranny]

Sorry, dupe post.

 

[dizzigirl1]

I am really not clever at these things but this is another age progression of Annette that maybe someone could put with this UID?

http://www.missingin.org/reg3637/annette_deanne_sagers.htm

I am really sorry i cannot work out how to do it. I think its the length of the face that is throwing me off between the photos or the bridge space above the nose while the features are there, to me, its not the same person.

 

[alllads]

They look alike, BUT the ages are wrong I think - Annette Sagers went missing in 1988 at the age of 12. FLEK took her false identity in 1988 - that fits, but how would a 14 year old be given a birth certificate for someone that should be 20 by then (from the 1968 birth date)? Unless we're going down the avenue that the false identity is invented, but all we know is that it's been said she stole a deceased child's identity. In 1990, Annette would have been only 14.

The again, Annette's mother Korrina was 26 in 1988, and could have conceivably picked up the birth certificate herself - a younger-looking 26 year old can pass better for 20 than a 14 year old I would think.

Though I do agree that there is a resemblance, more so than with any other missing persons suggested for FLEK.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

If she had a sex change, it would have shown up in the DNA testing. A man can snip off his parts and take hormone shots, but it doesn't change his DNA.

Hiya Carl and Jupiter,

I am the one who suggested a gender reassignment might have occurred. I was only half joking: it would in fact be one way to account for a woman who suddenly sprung into existence as an adult, with no discernable past. A new identity might have been desired in that case. I put it forth as one possible explanation, not the only one or even the most likely one.

It is far from the most outlandish theory ever posited on Websleuths.

She is tall, and to put it charitably, has very large feet for a woman in one of her pix, though the much younger pic of FLEK, in which she looks quite feminine, WOULD seem to make a sex change less likely. True that it does not change DNA, but was that issue ever addressed? It's not like it would be the first thing one looks for when doing testing. And was DNA testing ever done at all? Hmmmm....
Anyone know how fingerprint searches are done when you do have a body - do they only run a sort on WOMEN if you assume it's a woman? Here's where I am going with this: maybe her prints ARE in the system - as a man. And possibly they weren't checked.

 

[alllads]

Hiya Carl and Jupiter,

I am the one who suggested a gender reassignment might have occurred. I was only half joking: it would in fact be one way to account for a woman who suddenly sprung into existence as an adult, with no discernable past. A new identity might have been desired in that case. I put it forth as one possible explanation, not the only one or even the most likely one.

It is far from the most outlandish theory ever posited on Websleuths.

She is tall, and to put it charitably, has very large feet for a woman in one of her pix, though the much younger pic of FLEK, in which she looks quite feminine, WOULD seem to make a sex change less likely. True that it does not change DNA, but was that issue ever addressed? It's not like it would be the first thing one looks for when doing testing. And was DNA testing ever done at all? Hmmmm....
Anyone know how fingerprint searches are done when you do have a body - do they only run a sort on WOMEN if you assume it's a woman? Here's where I am going with this: maybe her prints ARE in the system - as a man. And possibly they weren't checked.

Her DNA was indeed run - and is obviously not chromosomally male DNA. And it is something one would pick up almost immediately in any DNA testing, because for men they isolate both the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA, to show a family link. For women, like FLEK, they get mitochondrial DNA only because women do not have Y chromosomes. If FLEK had a Y chromosome for any reason, sex change or chromosomal disorder, anything - it would have been noticed. Chromosomal sex is the simplest DNA testing that can be done, so if after running her full DNA they didn't pick up on her having had a sex change, it would have to be beyond gross incompetence.

 

[dogperson]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to who the LEK initials are referring to. How did we find out this lady's assumed identity? I have looked thru the thread but must have missed it.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Her DNA was indeed run - and is obviously not chromosomally male DNA. And it is something one would pick up almost immediately in any DNA testing, because for men they isolate both the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA, to show a family link. For women, like FLEK, they get mitochondrial DNA only because women do not have Y chromosomes. If FLEK had a Y chromosome for any reason, sex change or chromosomal disorder, anything - it would have been noticed. Chromosomal sex is the simplest DNA testing that can be done, so if after running her full DNA they didn't pick up on her having had a sex change, it would have to be beyond gross incompetence.

OK I'll buy that.

 

[alllads]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to who the LEK initials are referring to. How did we find out this lady's assumed identity? I have looked thru the thread but must have missed it.

Basically, someone early on looked for obituaries of someone dying on that date (24th December 2010) in Longview Texas, and came across LER. Looking at photos online of LER (who ran a small business) showed that it was definitely the same woman. Then found the marriage record of LER to her husband (confirmed as his name is provided in obituary) - LEK was her full maiden name.

And since we know LEK wasn't her real name either, and is in fact the name or identity of a deceased child, this Jane Doe is sometimes referred to as FLEK.

It's been decided by moderators not to post the full name, so hence the acronyms.

 

[dogperson]

Basically, someone early on looked for obituaries of someone dying on that date (24th December 2010) in Longview Texas, and came across LER. Looking at photos online of LER (who ran a small business) showed that it was definitely the same woman. Then found the marriage record of LER to her husband (confirmed as his name is provided in obituary) - LEK was her full maiden name.

And since we know LEK wasn't her real name either, and is in fact the name or identity of a deceased child, this Jane Doe is sometimes referred to as FLEK.

It's been decided by moderators not to post the full name, so hence the acronyms.

Thanks for the help! I'll do the search and see if I can find her obit and photos. I couldn't locate the post that explained how her false identity was found.

 

[dogperson]

Okay, I found the obituary plus some photos of LER online at a women's business function. She doesn't seem to have wanted to stay out of the public eye really, being a business owner/church member/married into a family that seems fairly prominent. Whatever she was hiding from she doesn't seem concerned about her photos being in the news.

As to the possibility that she used various SS#s, it might not be that difficult even when some of your info doesn't match up. The Social Security folks have had my year of birth incorrect for all of my life and I never knew it until changing the name on my DL when I got married. They think I was born in 1960. I was born in 1970 and my parents applied for my SS# then. I went thru school, obtained a driver's license, went to college, held various jobs, and even drew a SS check as a minor child when my dad was unable to walk anymore and could no longer work. I don't know how I drew the check if the SS people thought I was 10 years older than my real age because I was in high school at the time we applied for benefits, so really they should have thought I was in my 20s at the time. When I married I took my BC and wedding certificate to change my DL and the lady asked my age because she said the SS people had my DOB as 1960. She said I would have to take a certified copy of my BC to get it changed, but they went ahead and issued the license. I promptly forgot all about it until some years later when I had to renew the license and the lady at a different DMV said something wasn't matching up between all my info. I told her it was probably that my DOB wasn't matching up and told her the situation. She shrugged and issued the license. I still have yet to go to the SS office and change it because it's such a hassle and the last time I went there the line was way way too long. I will have to do it sometime before I renew my DL again next year. I have not fraudulently used it, of course and I am still very far from retirement age. But the point I'm making is I think they are too busy and too overworked to notice sometimes if an SS# and birthdate or something does not match. There is probably way more fraud going on than we know about.

 

[ClaireNC]

^^ We know that the SS number she was using was issued to her in 1988, in Texas. She applied for the SS number using the identity of a deceased child. There is no record that she was using multiple SS numbers, or did I miss something?

As for the published pictures from her involvement with the female business owners, she had been using that identity for about 20 years when those pictures were taken. I imagine that somebody could get a bit comfortable with an assumed identity if they had been using it for 20 years without detection. The pictures were not published in some mass national media publication, but a rather obscure local newspaper.

We don't know if the publication of those pictures contributed to the fact that she committed suicide in 2010.

 

[dogperson]

Upthread somebody had received a message from LE that said she was using a partial SS of a juvenile in one state and part of an SS from another state. Some had speculated this meant she used some numbers other than just the one we know she had.

 

[deca]

85,385
:what:
That is the number this year (so far) of 2012 taxes filed using stolen IDs. The ones that have been caught, anyways.

 

[DrDMike]

/maybe she killed herself because she thought she was about to get busted?

 

[bessie]

Did some thinking tonight, and I checked LR's claimed birthday of July 18, 1969. While Apollo 11 was making news, something else happened that day, which probably means nothing but is interesting nonetheless, considering LR's claimed birth name. Chappaquiddick.

Speaking of which, look at this odd obit from ancestry. Note the DOB for Ted K is July 18, 1969, which as you pointed out was that fateful day when the terrible accident occurred, while the nation nervously awaited the moon landing.