TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[Magnum P.E.]

Hello to everyone here on this thread for Lori Ruff. I am new to Websleuths, so please have patience with me while I learn the rules and how to navigate around here. I have been reading all the posts here and am so fascinated. I first learned of her story when I was working in Leonard, Tx as a nurse at the local nursing home. It made the front page, (the paper is only about 4 pages!)...I knew that the Ruff's lived just outside of town...my mom and all her family were all born and raised in this area...Leonard is very small along with Celeste and Greenville, Merit, etc...Mom knew a lot of the Ruff's before they moved to the Longview area. Blake and Lori, when they married, moved onto the small ranch outside of Leonard. I actually met Lori at the Kwik Check Gas Station there in Leonard, I saw her there many times...Like I said, the town is very small, and everyone goes there to sit and sip coffee and shoot the breeze...She seemed like a very nice person...I never would have dreamed that she had a secret...I plan on more research so if any of you have any questions to ask me, please feel free to do so...I Don't work there anymore, but like I said, I have a lot of family still there and I go visit my them and many friends often. I am about 20 minutes away..I am excited about joining Websleuths!

Hi Mimilisa, welcome to the forum. You may have something very important to contribute. You're the only one on here who actually met Lori. You saw Lori many times, but did you ever speak to her? What was her voice like, where would you have judged that she was from? Did she sound like other people from the area?

 

[LucyOso]

The scenario on this one is weird, but, has anyone considered Christi Jo Nichols? http://doenetwork.org/cases/2469dfne.html

 

[ClaireNC]

The scenario on this one is weird, but, has anyone considered Christi Jo Nichols? http://doenetwork.org/cases/2469dfne.html

Hi LucyOso, Christi Jo Nichols have been mentioned several times before, but I don't think anybody has ever called it in or contacted the investigator to specifically draw attention to her.

I am not sure how the DNA searches work, but both Christi Jo Nichols and FLEK's are in the system.

Here are some links to some previous discussions of Christi Jo.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7731993&highlight=nichols#post7731993

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7770523&highlight=nichols#post7770523

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7866512&highlight=nichols#post7866512

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8742587&highlight=nichols#post8742587

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9615517&highlight=nichols#post9615517

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9715521&highlight=nichols#post9715521

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9716824&highlight=nichols#post9716824

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9717837&highlight=nichols#post9717837

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9726647&highlight=nichols#post9726647

 

[masootz]

Hi LucyOso, Christi Jo Nichols have been mentioned several times before, but I don't think anybody has ever called it in or contacted the investigator to specifically draw attention to her.

I am not sure how the DNA searches work, but both Christi Jo Nichols and FLEK's are in the system.

Here are some links to some previous discussions of Christi Jo.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7731993&highlight=nichols#post7731993

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7770523&highlight=nichols#post7770523

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7866512&highlight=nichols#post7866512

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8742587&highlight=nichols#post8742587

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9615517&highlight=nichols#post9615517

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9715521&highlight=nichols#post9715521

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9716824&highlight=nichols#post9716824

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9717837&highlight=nichols#post9717837

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9726647&highlight=nichols#post9726647

nichols reportedly has two children. i think we've landed on flek having no children before the one with her husband, otherwise her doctor would have been aware that she previously had given birth.

 

[sloane7777]

nichols reportedly has two children. i think we've landed on flek having no children before the one with her husband, otherwise her doctor would have been aware that she previously had given birth.

BBM -Not necessarly if she did not disclose it, I think an autopsy would tell, but just routine exams even the fertillity Dr could just ask that question and move on without any suspicion

 

[ClaireNC]

BBM -Not necessarly if she did not disclose it, I think an autopsy would tell, but just routine exams even the fertillity Dr could just ask that question and move on without any suspicion

I agree, we don't really know if she had given birth to any children before. The SSI investigator might know, the doctors might know, but that information was never disclosed.

For the record, I believe that they did not perform an autopsy. The cause of death was pretty obvious.

Now that we are coming up on the anniversary of her death, I'd love to see some media attention brought to her case. Does anybody have any ideas how we can get that to happen?

 

[Linda9681]

Hi all. Went to Texas over the holiday to see my inlaws in Dallas. Drove straight past Longview.... so tempted to stop and snoop around...but I didn't. I see we don't have any new leads. I did have that same person that said our Jane Doe looked like a Laura Foster from Alaska ( stayed on Adak with a friend while being out processed from the military for psyc issues) I did not pursue. Good luck yall!

 

[Sherwood Park]

BBM -Not necessarly if she did not disclose it, I think an autopsy would tell, but just routine exams even the fertillity Dr could just ask that question and move on without any suspicion

Actually a doctor would know if she had given birth to children, a physical exam would have determined that. Doctor's can recognize the difference between a woman who has and hasn't given birth.

I'm not sure about where you live, but here all women who are pregnant receive a vaginal exam.

Regardless, it is true, we don't know if she had ever had any children in the past; not likely something she would reveal to anyone.

 

[ClaireNC]

Actually a doctor would know if she had given birth to children, a physical exam would have determined that. Doctor's can recognize the difference between a woman who has and hasn't given birth.

I'm not sure about where you live, but here all women who are pregnant receive a vaginal exam.

Regardless, it is true, we don't know if she had ever had any children in the past; not likely something she would reveal to anyone.

As I said a few posts up... quoting myself "We don't really know if she had given birth to any children before. The SSI investigator might know, the doctors might know, but that information was never disclosed."

 

[LucyOso]

As I said a few posts up... quoting myself "We don't really know if she had given birth to any children before. The SSI investigator might know, the doctors might know, but that information was never disclosed."

And, even if her OB/GYN knew (did an exam or she disclosed), that information is private. If she told him, she had a pregnancy when young and gave the baby up and didn't want her current husband to know, the doctor would have to respect her privacy on that. So, in reality, unless there is a court order for the doctor to hand over her charts, I highly doubt anyone would know about her previous child bearing circumstances.

 

[dogperson]

I know that generally a doctor can tell from a gynecological exam if a woman has given birth but I once had a doctor ask me during the actual exam how many children I've had. (None! I am 43 and no kids.) He seemed surprised. I don't know what they go by on these exams but apparently they can be mistaken from time to time.

 

[sloane7777]

I know that generally a doctor can tell from a gynecological exam if a woman has given birth but I once had a doctor ask me during the actual exam how many children I've had. (None! I am 43 and no kids.) He seemed surprised. I don't know what they go by on these exams but apparently they can be mistaken from time to time.

yes thats exactly what I meant, I had a friend that told her gyno that this was her first child and it was never questioned after the exam (she had given a child up for adoption at 16) and even in the delivery room (I was with her) all parties including the Gyno were totally unaware, giving first child labor tips etc, I asked her if she shouldnt have said something about this being the second just in case, complications etc and she VETOED it quickly,she just didnt want that in her medical records at this drs office , being a small town I understood.

 

[Sherwood Park]

I know that generally a doctor can tell from a gynecological exam if a woman has given birth but I once had a doctor ask me during the actual exam how many children I've had. (None! I am 43 and no kids.) He seemed surprised. I don't know what they go by on these exams but apparently they can be mistaken from time to time.

Doctor's make mistakes, hopefully he didn't miss anything seriously life threatening during your examine.

I didn't mean for this to turn into an argument with anyone, I only know that where I live pregnant women are examined thoroughly before and after, and they have the means to tell if a woman has delivered before. Anything a doctor notices is noted on his records, it doesn't mean he is sharing it with the entire medical staff or all her relatives.

Might not be the same everywhere and that's alright as long as women are still recieving proper pre/post natal care and gynecological (for some reason this word sounds weird) care.

Peace.

 

[ClaireNC]

Whatever FLEK told her doctors and whatever her doctors found is private. Period...

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Whatever FLEK told her doctors and whatever her doctors found is private. Period...

In some cases, i.e. In the case of commission of a crime, such as identity theft, social security fraud, income tax invasion, sometimes a subpoena or warrant solves that little HIPPA problem. That IS how this whole thing started isn't it? A crime was committed and it was being investigated. LE obtains medical records all the time for prescription drug abuse cases for instance. The fact is, we don't know if there was a subpoena or warrant for the information, or if she waived her patient privilege by allowing her doctor to speak in front of her husband. Period. The problem we are having is that we just have too little information from the investigator.

Can doctors be wrong? Yes. Fact is, because people can be wrong, we have to continue to keep an open mind to possibilities until they are ruled out. JMHO.

 

[Sherwood Park]

In some cases, i.e. In the case of commission of a crime, such as identity theft, social security fraud, income tax invasion, sometimes a subpoena or warrant solves that little HIPPA problem. That IS how this whole thing started isn't it? A crime was committed and it was being investigated. LE obtains medical records all the time for prescription drug abuse cases for instance. The fact is, we don't know if there was a subpoena or warrant for the information, or if she waived her patient privilege by allowing her doctor to speak in front of her husband. Period. The problem we are having is that we just have too little information from the investigator.

Can doctors be wrong? Yes. Fact is, because people can be wrong, we have to continue to keep an open mind to possibilities until they are ruled out. JMHO.

Exactly! We don't know.

And as I've mentioned months ago, there is a young child whose best interest and privacy must still be taken into consideration by her paternal family. If FLEK did or did not have other children out there, this is not necessarily information that the Ruff family or investigators would provide to the public.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Whatever FLEK told her doctors and whatever her doctors found is private. Period...

There is no period, just a question mark. You don't know that, especially when dealing with a legal case and specifically a case of stolen and false identity.

 

[shadowdancer]

Whatever FLEK told her doctors and whatever her doctors found is private. Period...

Not at all, if the doctor was made privy to information that can help in an official investigation, or which relates to the endangerment of the patient, their family or the public, they are not only able to share the information, but they are positively obliged to do so.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

It is counterproductive to go around in circles on the subject of whether FLEK previously had children. Doctors, family, and the SSA investigator may or may not know but we have no way to, so let's move on.

No one has yet answered my question about her voice, what she sounded like. There seem to be no recordings of her that have been made public either. That is a shame, your origins can be pinpointed by your expressions. A man once asked me if I was from Scranton, Pa. I'm not but my mother grew up there. This was in a completely different part of the country and really startled me.I wish we had a shot at identifying FLEK's expressions and accent.

 

[Sherwood Park]

It is counterproductive to go around in circles on the subject of whether FLEK previously had children. Doctors, family, and the SSA investigator may or may not know but we have no way to, so let's move on.

No one has yet answered my question about her voice, what she sounded like. There seem to be no recordings of her that have been made public either. That is a shame, your origins can be pinpointed by your expressions. A man once asked me if I was from Scranton, Pa. I'm not but my mother grew up there. This was in a completely different part of the country and really startled me.I wish we had a shot at identifying FLEK's expressions and accent.

We've been officially told that she had no identifiable accent, but who knows, maybe someone else might detect an accent. I would think that if they had any remaining letters, cards, post cards, emails, etc. you might be able to detect some "regionalisms" in her writing. Maybe in the future her in-laws or the detective might be able to release those types of things if they are available.

I wish a list of requests could be made to the family and the investigator(s) for copies of items or additional information about FLEK.