TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[Owutatangledweb]

I know you have been here for a few years working on this. Do you have a plausible theory and connection between LEK and the Amish?

If you do I would love to hear it. Because I'm leaning that way.

I do not have any one theory at this time. I think anY theory that has been thrown out here can be supported by at least a half a dozen things. As to Amish or Mennonite, there is the potential PA connection with the "libary" connection. THere are Amish all over PA, OH, and NY. There is the poor spelling indicating she may not have been in a traditional school setting all her life, there is the intimation she may have come from a strict or conservative background, there is her look in the first ID photo. There is the fact many young Amish leave that lifestyle. There is the fact she seemingly came out of nowhere. There is the fact she had no discernible accent. That makes me think of the Midwest because I heard at one time (don't know where) that newscasters often start out in the Midwest in order to lose any accent they have. Don't know if that's true, just heard it somewhere. I don't know if that's six, but I'm sure I can come up with another one for this "possibility". It is in no way my theory. It is just another one of the many "possibilities" discussed throughout these threads.

IMO, there is only one factual "lead" that we have right now and that is the information in the FOIA information that was obtained. And even that is speculation, albeit by a person more directly related to the case. However, because we don't know the extent to which the investigator followed that lead, IMO it is one that should be followed. IMO it should be followed respectfully because it IS based on speculation.

That's where I'm at right now. All possibilities still open.

 

[dvo]

As to Amish or Mennonite, there is the potential PA connection with the "libary" connection. THere are Amish all over PA, OH, and NY. There is the poor spelling indicating she may not have been in a traditional school setting all her life, there is the intimation she may have come from a strict or conservative background, there is her look in the first ID photo. There is the fact many young Amish leave that lifestyle. There is the fact she seemingly came out of nowhere. There is the fact she had no discernible accent. That makes me think of the Midwest because I heard at one time (don't know where) that newscasters often start out in the Midwest in order to lose any accent they have.

Amish folks often have a Pennsylvania Dutch Accent. It's very distinctive:
[video=youtube;wjr2CexQ5V4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjr2CexQ5V4[/video]

 

[dejaraine]

Amish folks often have a Pennsylvania Dutch Accent. It's very distinctive:
[video=youtube;wjr2CexQ5V4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjr2CexQ5V4[/video]

Although I agree that some have a very distinct accent I've worked with enough to know that not all have this accent. Geographical location influences accent immensely so if we took one Amishman from PA and one from WA or TX there would be a different accent.

Either way LEK's DNA would easily tell us what her ancestral roots were and could determine from there if she was of German descent. i know it's been catalogued for comparison anyone know if it's been determined what her roots were?

 

[dejaraine]

Can someone post the link to the Google map with all the pin points of LEK's known locations or important places?

I saw it somewhere but don't know where.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I do not have any one theory at this time. I think anY theory that has been thrown out here can be supported by at least a half a dozen things. As to Amish or Mennonite, there is the potential PA connection with the "libary" connection. THere are Amish all over PA, OH, and NY. There is the poor spelling indicating she may not have been in a traditional school setting all her life, there is the intimation she may have come from a strict or conservative background, there is her look in the first ID photo. There is the fact many young Amish leave that lifestyle. There is the fact she seemingly came out of nowhere. There is the fact she had no discernible accent. That makes me think of the Midwest because I heard at one time (don't know where) that newscasters often start out in the Midwest in order to lose any accent they have. Don't know if that's true, just heard it somewhere. I don't know if that's six, but I'm sure I can come up with another one for this "possibility". It is in no way my theory. It is just another one of the many "possibilities" discussed throughout these threads.

IMO, there is only one factual "lead" that we have right now and that is the information in the FOIA information that was obtained. And even that is speculation, albeit by a person more directly related to the case. However, because we don't know the extent to which the investigator followed that lead, IMO it is one that should be followed. IMO it should be followed respectfully because it IS based on speculation.

That's where I'm at right now. All possibilities still open.

If we are willing to consider Amish or Mennonite, I wonder if she could have been raised in a Hutterite society? I went to high school with students from what was then called the Society of Brothers, now called the Bruderhof. They attended public schools but did not serve in the military. Many were born in Paraguay, and were relocated to the U.S. They had a conservative style of dress, though more brightly colored than Amish or Mennonite. I doubt there would be much of a paper trail for someone raised in one of those communities in Canada or the U.S. They did drive cars, I don't know if they voted.

This was in Pennsylvania.

 

[HerStory]

If we are willing to consider Amish or Mennonite, I wonder if she could have been raised in a Hutterite society? I went to high school with students from what was then called the Society of Brothers, now called the Bruderhof. They attended public schools but did not serve in the military. Many were born in Paraguay, and were relocated to the U.S. They had a conservative style of dress, though more brightly colored than Amish or Mennonite. I doubt there would be much of a paper trail for someone raised in one of those communities in Canada or the U.S. They did drive cars, I don't know if they voted.

This was in Pennsylvania.

My older son is good friends with a lot of Hutterite people. I also have a connection to another former Hutterite lady ..... If anyone has any questions I need to ask.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

My older son is good friends with a lot of Hutterite people. I also have a connection to another former Hutterite lady ..... If anyone has any questions I need to ask.

First a disclaimer: I haven't the slightest evidence that FLEK was a Hutterite. Just another avenue of investigation.
An interesting question would be, what happens when someone leaves? In general are they left alone or would there be reason to cover one's tracks as thoroughly as FLEK did?

Someone posted asking about FLEK's DNA. It would not only tell us her ethnic background but also would turn up relatives. Many cases could be solved if LE would use commercial DNA tests and forensic genealogists.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Amish ethnography. http://margaretspark.blogspot.com/2012/08/ethnography-of-amish.html

There is a map of church districts at the link.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

There is a map of where Hutterite colonies at this link. There are 5 colonies in the State of Washington.

https://cas.uab.edu/peacefulsocieties/societies/hutterites/

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Google "the Nine" and Hutterite to learn about a book written by nine escapees. At this link is a pic of just nine of them.. Can't but help notice the tall matronly looking lady with dark hair.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...rite-colony-members-tell-all-in-new-book.html

 

[sunnynz]

First a disclaimer: I haven't the slightest evidence that FLEK was a Hutterite. Just another avenue of investigation.
An interesting question would be, what happens when someone leaves? In general are they left alone or would there be reason to cover one's tracks as thoroughly as FLEK did?

Someone posted asking about FLEK's DNA. It would not only tell us her ethnic background but also would turn up relatives. Many cases could be solved if LE would use commercial DNA tests and forensic genealogists.

I just did a little reading, it seems that they are a pacifist religion so the consequences are likely not dangerous but there were also a couple of sites that mention some child abuse so it may vary from colony to colony. It's definitely an interesting theory that could explain some of FLEK's personality traits and quirks. This is one site for anyone who's interested which details a group of nine members who left the church. http://www.thenine9.com/

 

[HerStory]

Google "the Nine" and Hutterite to learn about a book written by nine escapees. At this link is a pic of just nine of them.. Can't but help notice the tall matronly looking lady with dark hair.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...rite-colony-members-tell-all-in-new-book.html

That is the area which I am from...

 

[Sherwood Park]

First a disclaimer: I haven't the slightest evidence that FLEK was a Hutterite. Just another avenue of investigation.
An interesting question would be, what happens when someone leaves? In general are they left alone or would there be reason to cover one's tracks as thoroughly as FLEK did?

Someone posted asking about FLEK's DNA. It would not only tell us her ethnic background but also would turn up relatives. Many cases could be solved if LE would use commercial DNA tests and forensic genealogists.

They already have FLEK's DNA. If FLEK was of Amish heritage I"m sure Velling would have mentioned it. He told us about heart issues, he would have told us about Amish heritage.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

They already have FLEK's DNA. If FLEK was of Amish heritage I"m sure Velling would have mentioned it. He told us about heart issues, he would have told us about Amish heritage.

I don't know if there is such a thing as a genetically distinct Amish heritage, but I recently did an Ancestry DNA test and hundreds of close and distant relatives showed up. All DNA tests are not created equal, and all databases are surely not. CODIS, which is what she was probably entered in, is frankly very limited.

I think this case may not be solved until FLEK's daughter is old enough to do a familial DNA test on her own.

 

[HerStory]

I don't know if there is such a thing as a genetically distinct Amish heritage, but I recently did an Ancestry DNA test and hundreds of close and distant relatives showed up. All DNA tests are not created equal, and all databases are surely not. CODIS, which is what she was probably entered in, is frankly very limited.

I think this case may not be solved until FLEK's daughter is old enough to do a familial DNA test on her own.

j

I wholeheartedly agree! The ancestry DNA matching is pretty awesome!

 

[tarheelslim]

I'm not sure why it would make sense for her to be from an Amish community. From what I understand, they give adolescents distance and wait for them to choose to be a part of the community, and if you don't want to live by their rules you just walk away. I haven't heard of any scary cult-like conditions which would cause someone to want to change their identity to distance themselves from the Amish.

 

[dejaraine]

I'm not sure why it would make sense for her to be from an Amish community. From what I understand, they give adolescents distance and wait for them to choose to be a part of the community, and if you don't want to live by their rules you just walk away. I haven't heard of any scary cult-like conditions which would cause someone to want to change their identity to distance themselves from the Amish.

Yeah, it's not really like they can just walk away though. When an Amish person chooses the "English" way of life they are dead to the other Amish. Their family gets in BIG trouble if they even associate with them. They risk getting ex-communicated themselves. Ex-communicated means the fire of hell. So there is really no going back once you leave. (A pretty easy way to explain being shunned would be, I'm an only child and all my family is dead.)

How do you exist in the "English" world if you don't? The Amish aren't issued birth certificates or given SSNs. And it doesn't have to be scary for someone to need an identity. If she does leave from one of these communities no one is going to put out a missing bulletin because they are told that person is dead to them.

It's strange to me that she didn't want her photograph taken and/or published. WS members assumed that she didn't want it bc she was afraid of someone recognizing her. Odd and extremely inconvenient for us bc in the past six years NO ONE has recognized her with her photo being all over to give us a window to her pre-BST life.

She was known to be very religious; is it a stretch to question perhaps it was a religious preference not to be photographed?
"When her future mother-in-law wanted to announce their wedding in the paper, Lori refused the offer, saying it simply wasn't her style.
"She said, 'We don't do things like that,'" Blake's mother, Nancy Ruff, told The Seattle Times."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...man-article-1.1383957?localLinksEnabled=false

Who is we? Was that a slip?

The home for sale didn't have any photos or portraits out either. They could have been taken down but the house looked very lived in and not staged for selling.

It is strange to me that she didn't get her driver's license for year. Was it because she couldn't drive and had to practice?

There's a tie to a seamstress/bridal shop; Amish women know how to sew; I would call most expert seamstresses. It's not a stretch to think if she were Amish she may attempt to get work there.

On her passport she lists Germany as a country she is going to visit on 03/20/90. Well Germany isn't Germany to the rest of the world at that point. For a fleeting moment i thought of a time traveler but it's probably better explained she comes from German ancestry and that's how she translates it instead of E/W Germany. And she's not a dummy when it comes to social studies either because in less than a month after requesting that she scores better than 93% of the student taken that GED.

Her obsession with the Ruff family recipes. Recipes are VERY important to Amish women. Besides God/prayer/church I would say cooking/baking history is probably the next thing that binds the women to their family.

Then there is a word on the note page "tore" or "toren" or "torem". Was this a slip back to her native language? On the note page she's really good at capitalizing proper nouns which leads me to believe it's not a name or a specific place.

At the end of the day, it's speculation and assumptions. I'm new to this case and WS in general. I know many of you have been here since the beginning I commend you for being here for so long. I'm only trying to offer new perspectives. There are other things but I touched on the ones that really pointed me in the direction of the Amish.

Others suggested anabaptists or Hutterites and yes I believe that it could be possible (from the little I was able to read last night) she comes from one of those communities as well I just don't know enough about them.

 

[HerStory]

After speaking to several people regarding Hutterite beliefs and practices..... it is unlikely that FLEK would require a new identity or fear discovery from leaving a typical Hutterite colony.

I am really sceptical that she came from a religious colony. LDS..... maybe. However, my gut and money lie on a TT and SBH link.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Yeah, it's not really like they can just walk away though. When an Amish person chooses the "English" way of life they are dead to the other Amish. Their family gets in BIG trouble if they even associate with them. They risk getting ex-communicated themselves. Ex-communicated means the fire of hell. So there is really no going back once you leave. (A pretty easy way to explain being shunned would be, I'm an only child and all my family is dead.)

How do you exist in the "English" world if you don't? The Amish aren't issued birth certificates or given SSNs. And it doesn't have to be scary for someone to need an identity. If she does leave from one of these communities no one is going to put out a missing bulletin because they are told that person is dead to them.

It's strange to me that she didn't want her photograph taken and/or published. WS members assumed that she didn't want it bc she was afraid of someone recognizing her. Odd and extremely inconvenient for us bc in the past six years NO ONE has recognized her with her photo being all over to give us a window to her pre-BST life.

She was known to be very religious; is it a stretch to question perhaps it was a religious preference not to be photographed?
"When her future mother-in-law wanted to announce their wedding in the paper, Lori refused the offer, saying it simply wasn't her style.
"She said, 'We don't do things like that,'" Blake's mother, Nancy Ruff, told The Seattle Times."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...man-article-1.1383957?localLinksEnabled=false

Who is we? Was that a slip?

The home for sale didn't have any photos or portraits out either. They could have been taken down but the house looked very lived in and not staged for selling.

It is strange to me that she didn't get her driver's license for year. Was it because she couldn't drive and had to practice?

There's a tie to a seamstress/bridal shop; Amish women know how to sew; I would call most expert seamstresses. It's not a stretch to think if she were Amish she may attempt to get work there.

On her passport she lists Germany as a country she is going to visit on 03/20/90. Well Germany isn't Germany to the rest of the world at that point. For a fleeting moment i thought of a time traveler but it's probably better explained she comes from German ancestry and that's how she translates it instead of E/W Germany. And she's not a dummy when it comes to social studies either because in less than a month after requesting that she scores better than 93% of the student taken that GED.

Her obsession with the Ruff family recipes. Recipes are VERY important to Amish women. Besides God/prayer/church I would say cooking/baking history is probably the next thing that binds the women to their family.

Then there is a word on the note page "tore" or "toren" or "torem". Was this a slip back to her native language? On the note page she's really good at capitalizing proper nouns which leads me to believe it's not a name or a specific place.

At the end of the day, it's speculation and assumptions. I'm new to this case and WS in general. I know many of you have been here since the beginning I commend you for being here for so long. I'm only trying to offer new perspectives. There are other things but I touched on the ones that really pointed me in the direction of the Amish.

Others suggested anabaptists or Hutterites and yes I believe that it could be possible (from the little I was able to read last night) she comes from one of those communities as well I just don't know enough about them.

You echo many of my thoughts. I believe in the use of Occam's Razor, that the simplest explanation that satisfies the known facts is the most likely one. Being raised in an environment such as we speculate, and then leaving it for unknown reasons, would satisfy what little we know about FLEK's unusual behavior. But then, it seems that there are no simple explanations when it comes to FLEK, a woman who created herself as an adult, out of whole cloth, formed few attachments, never tipped her hand, and left this world on her own terms, however tragic it was.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi Sleuthers!

Can someone refresh my memory...Did Lori have any scars??