TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

[Gardener1850]

Did you find her now? I don't want to rule it out unless we are positive it is not a connection.


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I have her birth record, a record of her daughter's birth in 1992 and she is mentioned in her father's obituary in 2009. I also found a yearbook photo on Ancestry that matches her name, birth year and approx location in Texas (a Dallas suburb). She is blonde and does not look like FLEK, IMO. I did not find her social media to verify she is alive past 2009 but I can give details in a PM if anyone wants to look further.

 

[sunnynz]

Ben Jr had a daughter in LA that died. I can find ZERO info on HOW she died. Her first name was Denise. I saw her pic and info on Ancestry. Pics from Ben Jrs funeral are also on there. I have always said and stick to the idea that Ben Perkins was a huge part of all this. If we could figure out HOW we may just get a break. He was interviewed about her by Velling but if he was shady, I doubt he would have admitted much. He has a brother that lives in Jackson MS. The coroner info we just discussed is VERY interesting to me and really could be what she meant by Laciner. I think we know some of the players, we just don't know the game. I also think the Princeton, TX address from the unclaimed funds could be very important. I wish I had time to follow that up!! Princeton lies just NE of Dallas, and is a rocks throw where she settled with Blake ( Lenard, TX). Princeton is sorta " trashy" compared to surrounding towns. I live about 18 minutes from there.


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I feel like the Ben Jr that has been talked about on here might be the wrong kind of lawyer, so I'm not sure if this is a worthy suggestion or not. But is there a way to cross reference him with the Laciner coroner that has been mentioned to see if there were any cases that they were both assigned to?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

So as a bit of an update on my digging into of the Clark County, NV marriage record we found earlier of BST to RWB. I never found out what happened to the BST that married RWB. She disappears into thin air after living with him at the first address in 1989. But there are some strange things about their addresses I wanted to get some opinions on. For one thing the address they supposedly lived together at in 1989 does not exist. It's apartments today but the apartment have a different number and there is just a blank piece of land there on google maps. Possible they tore down the house to build the apartment complex, but IDK.

Second, RWB had a second address in 1989 at the same time he was supposedly living with BST in the house that doesn't exist today. That second address is the address of a hotel. So what I want to know is, in another thread I read that scam artists used to use hotel addresses to get their mail forwarded or something...I'm not sure how this works or what someone would have to have sent to a hotel to get the address put down as public record of their having lived there. I know someone can technically live in a hotel but I feel like something is off about this person living in a hotel and having a home address at the same time in the same city.

Third, another strange thing is that his first name is used with BST's last name on the public records for that house that doesn't exist. Like he took her name after marriage instead of her taking his. It's only reported the one place and then he goes back to using his own surname. This could just be some weird error in recording his name on the public record or something but it's so strange.

Fourth by 1994 he is married to a different woman and living in an upper middle class house that was build in 1991. Well call this 2nd wife K. K married 6 times and RWB was her 5th husband. I found this K alive, sort of. She is list in an obituary in 2013 for her 6th husband's family. I'm being very vague so as to not talk about a living person by name but K has had quite an unusual life and I have a copy of her handwriting from one of her marriage records. She got married twice in Washington state. He handwriting is not an exact match to the note writer but it is very close and has some similarities that were hard to ignore. I hope it's okay if I post a comparison in another post. I really think this person could be related to FLEK or the note writer or both.

I would like to help you with this address question; but can you please clarify what you mean by the "Public record"? For instance, have you actually been searching these addresses on county recorder and county auditor websites? Or, are you speaking of some other wesbsites or records that are on the internet? I say this because if you have the address and search the actual public records on the proper government websites, you should be able to determine if there was an actual building there in that year and in most instances, the type of building as well. I do this everyday in my work, so if you need help with this, please let me know.

I think this is an avenue worth exploring. I started down this course a long time ago and I didn't get as far with it as you seem to have gotten, but I may be able to help you take it further. I think it's is worth pursuing.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

The parts from the note are the top and the bottom and the middle writing is from a marriage record. It's purposely cropped so there is no identifying info. I don't think this is an exact match because of the the difference in J's in the word Jackson. But the word Manchester was so similarly written, with a mix of upper and lower case letters I had to get some opinions. I spent several days thinking this might actually be FLEK in this marriage record but that was before I deduced the note was likely written by someone else. I'm leaning towards this being her sister or another family member. I can't find any pictures of K however or any social media. Her married name is too common.

PS, the above address does not exist so I'm not giving away the name of the person by posting. The street exists but it only goes to 3 digits.

In looking at the way this is written with Perkins written above Ben Jr and Manchester written below the numerical part of the address with "records" written to the side above, I think she was taking this information down from someone over the phone. When I'm on the phone, if someone on the phone is talking too fast for me to write or if I am unsure of spelling, I will leave space to fill that in and then go back and fill it in after I'm off the phone or ask them to repeat that part and then write it down. Note the white space left in those areas. It appears she was leaving space for that information and then didn't have enough space and wrote above and below the areas where we would normally write those things.

 

[Gardener1850]

I would like to help you with this address question; but can you please clarify what you mean by the "Public record"? For instance, have you actually been searching these addresses on county recorder and county auditor websites? Or, are you speaking of some other wesbsites or records that are on the internet? I say this because if you have the address and search the actual public records on the proper government websites, you should be able to determine if there was an actual building there in that year and in most instances, the type of building as well. I do this everyday in my work, so if you need help with this, please let me know.

I think this is an avenue worth exploring. I started down this course a long time ago and I didn't get as far with it as you seem to have gotten, but I may be able to help you take it further. I think it's is worth pursuing.

By Public Record I mean the records listed on Familysearch and Ancestry. To some extent I have also used Spokeo and Whitepages.com I have not looked at any county assessors pages. Here is an example of the public record on FamilySearch: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJWK-KWH4
You can see by that link that Family Search calls these address records "Public Record".

The address that appears to no longer exist is the one in Roeland Park, Kansas from that link above. On Ancestry I can search by address, so when I put that specific address in it tells me everyone they have listed as having been associated with the address (either lived there or owned it at some point). There are about half a dozen people so I suspect there was a house there at some point. Looking at the address on Google Maps though and I only see apartment complexes and a grocery store. Maybe it is one of the apartments without an apartment number? It's just strange. Also strange thing I just noticed is RWB's address dates overlap. I'm not sure if that just means he didn't forward his mail or he maintained two residences (maybe owned both and rented one out?) IDK. Any help you can give would be much appreciated. Ultimately I am trying to locate the BST who married RWB. She lives in Roeland Park, KS in 1989 and then seems to disappear.

 

[Gardener1850]

In looking at the way this is written with Perkins written above Ben Jr and Manchester written below the numerical part of the address with "records" written to the side above, I think she was taking this information down from someone over the phone. When I'm on the phone, if someone on the phone is talking too fast for me to write or if I am unsure of spelling, I will leave space to fill that in and then go back and fill it in after I'm off the phone or ask them to repeat that part and then write it down. Note the white space left in those areas. It appears she was leaving space for that information and then didn't have enough space and wrote above and below the areas where we would normally write those things.

I agree with that interpretation. I think that most of this note was written down over the phone. The question is did someone call Ben Perkins law office first and then this note-writer traced the call using the CNA system? Or did someone else call the note writer and recommend Ben Perkins Jr over the phone? I've been trying to track down any cases BP Jr. tried in court and I've been unsuccessful. Any lawyers among us know how to look up bankruptcy filings from before 1988?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

By Public Record I mean the records listed on Familysearch and Ancestry. To some extent I have also used Spokeo and Whitepages.com I have not looked at any county assessors pages. Here is an example of the public record on FamilySearch: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJWK-KWH4
You can see by that link that Family Search calls these address records "Public Record".

The address that appears to no longer exist is the one in Roeland Park, Kansas from that link above. On Ancestry I can search by address, so when I put that specific address in it tells me everyone they have listed as having been associated with the address (either lived there or owned it at some point). There are about half a dozen people so I suspect there was a house there at some point. Looking at the address on Google Maps though and I only see apartment complexes and a grocery store. Maybe it is one of the apartments without an apartment number? It's just strange. Also strange thing I just noticed is RWB's address dates overlap. I'm not sure if that just means he didn't forward his mail or he maintained two residences (maybe owned both and rented one out?) IDK. Any help you can give would be much appreciated. Ultimately I am trying to locate the BST who married RWB. She lives in Roeland Park, KS in 1989 and then seems to disappear.

Gardener, the following link is how you find the actual public record. There is no such address, assuming that I got the County right. Put in the address and you will see what I mean. Also try the names that you want to try. I found a becky L. B. Just click on that one to see the kind of information that actual public records provide. As far as the stuff that you find in ancestry, I personally believe that they gather some of this stuff from credit reports that are sold or perhaps even utility bills or maybe even post office records. Hard to know where this stuff comes from, IMO.

http://land.jocogov.org/landsearch.aspx

 

[Gardener1850]

Gardener, the following link is how you find the actual public record. There is no such address, assuming that I got the County right. Put in the address and you will see what I mean. Also try the names that you want to try. I found a becky L. B. Just click on that one to see the kind of information that actual public records provide. As far as the stuff that you find in ancestry, I personally believe that they gather some of this stuff from credit reports that are sold or perhaps even utility bills or maybe even post office records. Hard to know where this stuff comes from, IMO.

http://land.jocogov.org/landsearch.aspx

Thank you! That is the correct county and verifies this address doesn't exist.
My question is could it have once existed and not be in the county records or does this indicate the people associated with the address were using a fake address for some purpose?

 

[Gardener1850]

The Becky L. B listed on the county website is too young to be the Becky who married RWB. She was born in 1978. The wedding was in 1988.

 

[dvo]

It is interesting, but probably nothing, that RWB's son and his family live in Hurst, TX, quite near some of LEK's known addresses. Sorry if this has been discussed already..

 

[Linda9681]

I feel like the Ben Jr that has been talked about on here might be the wrong kind of lawyer, so I'm not sure if this is a worthy suggestion or not. But is there a way to cross reference him with the Laciner coroner that has been mentioned to see if there were any cases that they were both assigned to?

I seriously doubt it is NOT the same lawyer. There is a name, address AND phone that all match.


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[Linda9681]

In looking at the way this is written with Perkins written above Ben Jr and Manchester written below the numerical part of the address with "records" written to the side above, I think she was taking this information down from someone over the phone. When I'm on the phone, if someone on the phone is talking too fast for me to write or if I am unsure of spelling, I will leave space to fill that in and then go back and fill it in after I'm off the phone or ask them to repeat that part and then write it down. Note the white space left in those areas. It appears she was leaving space for that information and then didn't have enough space and wrote above and below the areas where we would normally write those things.

And the person who was giving her the info KNEW "Ben Jr " personally, well enough to mention him that way, and knew there was a Ben Sr.


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[CaseCracka]

I can't help but notice that this is very close to the Philadelphia area, where the unnamed 18-year-old runaway alleged to be FLEK was from. I know there has been speculation that the initial informant on this was mixed up with another case, however the communication from Mr. Velling leaked here seems to suggest otherwise (unless it was a hoax). Until this is refuted, it's possible that this case has already been solved with DNA, and not yet officially declared for whatever reason. The library number with no area code seemingly needed would be consistent with an origin around Philadelphia. She may have done research at the library to get started on the whole thing.

My interest in the library number is that it assuredly dates that specific writing to BEFORE 1995, as the article I posted stated when the area code would have been mandatory to dial. I also assume that puts her either IN the area when written or she knew the area code by heart?

 

[CaseCracka]

Oh yeah, and guess what the library had, first in the region in 1981, a coin operated computer.

Not paying for full text but here's an except:

COMPUTER
DEVOURS QUARTERS Author: LARRY REIBSTEIN
Date: January 22, 1981
Publication: Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA) Page: C14
By Larry Reibstein
Inquirer Business Writer
Here's some advice: Don't kick the newest vending machine at the Tredyffrin
Public Library if it doesn't work. It's liable to humiliate you later.
In what is said to be a first in the region, the library last month
installed a coin-operated desk-top computer that gives users 15 minutes of
time for 50 cents.
So far, library patrons have used it mostly to play games - tic-tac-toe,
blackjack, backgammon or...

Some other interesting information on the Compuvend computer that was installed at that library.

At other libraries the computers have access to national information banks.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Ir8aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NkcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6741,4996861

Children and teens predominant users

https://books.google.com/books?id=D...public library coin operated computer&f=false

 

[Linda9681]

Casecracka when I see your name I always think of this meme

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[Gardener1850]

It is interesting, but probably nothing, that RWB's son and his family live in Hurst, TX, quite near some of LEK's known addresses. Sorry if this has been discussed already..

Yes, that's why I keep going back and trying to figure out if that BST was FLEK. RWB's son was born in 1982, however, and I can't figure out his mother's name. There's another person with his same name and same year of birth in Idaho. I found both their fb pages and they are married to women with different names so I know they are different people.

 

[dvo]

Yes, that's why I keep going back and trying to figure out if that BST was FLEK. RWB's son was born in 1982, however, and I can't figure out his mother's name. There's another person with his same name and same year of birth in Idaho. I found both their fb pages and they are married to women with different names so I know they are different people.

I think it has been widely wondered what is up with that marriage record and I think you're the first person to seriously dig in and post about your findings, so thank yo for doing that!! I am reading with bated breath for your next finding on this

 

[Katinka]

http://www.personalityforge.com/userviewer.php?UserID=55526

Do we know if this account was created by Lori or Blake and their relation to Jon Dorner?

 

[Gardener1850]

I think it has been widely wondered what is up with that marriage record and I think you're the first person to seriously dig in and post about your findings, so thank yo for doing that!! I am reading with bated breath for your next finding on this

I just found the mother of RWB's son. They married in 1981 in Jackson County, MO. The marriage record is only on Ancestry and I had overlooked it because RWB said he lived in Colorado at the time. But there is no doubt this is the same RWB. His ex-wife shared an address with his son in Texas in the 90's but they are not listed together anywhere and she had remarried by then. I had to go through all the people who lived at his oldest address Texas address to find her. She remarried in Texas. She uses the same maiden name in her marriage to her second husband: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VY76-QXQ
They also had two kids in the early 90's.The weird thing is her maiden name is not very common yet I didn't find her in any yearbooks or listed in public records for the address she listed on the 1981 marriage record and NONE of the people listed at that address during that time period share her surname. Could be nothing but I'm trying to find her alive today to make sure she's not FLEK. I posted the above link in case anyone wants to help search for KG. I'm good at the genealogy stuff but not so good at finding people on social media.

 

[llywrch]

Midge Montana, thank you for submitting you handwriting sample for us to see. If I may make an observation, it seems to me that you are switching between printed and cursive letters in your writing. Your letters may be different styles on the same page but they are all consistently your style of writing. If we were comparing a sample of cursive writing from FLEK with a sample of printed letters on the notes page I would be inclined to agree that the same person could have written both samples. However, both writings in this case are samples of printed letters. Plus, if really written by the same person we would expect to see a mixing of the two styles on any of the other words, just as you have on your sheet of notes--you fluidly go between the two styles. But we don't have even one example that I see of that. The "These Eyes" is the only thing written in the same style as FLEK's passport application (e's and y match her style of printing). Thanks again for giving us something to think about, but I'm sticking with my theory the majority of the note was not written by FLEK. JMO.

A lot of adults tend to write in a mixture of printed & cursive letters. For example, I do. Well, actually I started using printed characters as a teenager when my cursive deteriorated so badly that I resorted to writing in print letters, but I never lost the tendency to connect my letters. (For a while I even resorted to writing in block letters, only to find that I tried to connect even those letters. But that's neither here nor there.) And I tend to mix my letter-forms: sometimes I make my "y" & "l" with loops, sometimes they're straight lines; my final "s" can sometimes appear as a normal "s" at the end of a word, but often look more like the Greek sigma in final position; & without thinking about it, my "z" alternates from a regular "z" (although with a cross bar) to one that looks much like the number "3". Legibility ranges widely depending on how fast & how careful I write, from a rather attractive hand (if I may say so) to scribbles even I have problems reading.

We were able to determine Midge Montana's general style because she shared a complete page she wrote in one sitting. Were she to share a page with notes & words written at different times over a period of time -- say a few days or a month -- it might not be so easy to say one person wrote it. Especially if she wrote it at different degrees of care & speed.

But I think you make a good argument that much of the note page might have been written by someone other than LEK. (Which raises the question why she kept the sheet of paper: because it had important information, or because of sentimental reasons, or it was simply an accident.) The problem with this theory is that we have such a small sample of her handwriting that we can't be sure. (Much like the case with Spring/Summer 1988: he didn't tell us enough to determine with complete confidence whether he was trolling us or telling the truth. Which means even for the purpose of creating a profile we can't completely trust what he told us.) Which has been the problem with this case: at every turn it keeps coming back to being just a bit shy of enough information to arrive at a solution.