TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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Another interesting thing about SDA's is they came out of a historical movement called the Great Awakenings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church
Many protestant denominations came from the Great Awakenings, but that reminds me of the names of that ministry posted up thread. When I first saw that ministry page it made me think of Pentecostal or Charismatic churches because of the name but they could be an SDA ministry. Now I'm going to have to look into their denominational background to satisfy my curiosity.

You omitted two interesting thing about the 7th-day Adventists. One is that they have their own schismatic, cult-like subgroups too, the most well known of which were the Branch Davidians. (Although the notorious ones led by David Koresh were actually a splinter from the main Branch Davidians.) These groups were often caught up in these millennial enthusiasms (i.e., thinking that the world was about to end on a given day), disposing of all of their possessions, only to be inevitably disappointed & having to deal with this crisis of faith.

So there are other cults out there besides the FLDS, existing under the radar, that LEK may have come from.

The other interesting thing? It is to a 7th-day Adventist we owe the creation of the Graham cracker. Originally intended to be the perfect food, it became a quite successful snack food & made the owner a lot of money. (Not relevant to finding LEK's birth name, but it is an entertaining bit of trivia.)
 
PIM, how did you come to the conclusion that DS is the daughter of that particular RS-- the one born in SD? I see that there is another man with the same name who was born and lived in and around LA,?
I saw the photo of RS in CO, and I see what you mean--there is a resemblance to LEK, in my and my husband's opinion.

Well, it's a bit like asking me which puzzle piece I put in first or second after I've done a 200-piece puzzle, so I'm not sure if I can retrace my steps. Key is that I found her birth record which states her full name, birth date and place, and her mother's maiden name. And it helped a lot that her mother's first name was unusual. Plug that info in and eventually you get CA address records with other family member names. And then marriage and/or divorce records for the adults which confirm their full names, dates, etc. Also need to take into account that middle names were sometimes used as first names during childhood for that generation - especially nicknames variations (eg. Billy for William).

I'm glad you were able to find her father's photo! If you have access, check out Leon also in the 1953 Deadwood High School yearbook - (freshman group photo, bottom of the page; first kid in 2nd row) - he's wearing the striped shirt that reminds me of her Idaho ID, and he also has that same S demeanor.
 
There is a Deborah J. Stalder S. on Spokeo and Radaris. All previous addresses are in California except one and age is 57.

b5934e1593ac3504e708a1ea63ab101b.jpg

Yes, unfortunately this is a puzzle piece on the table that (for me) just sits there, as it has no connections to the 'family unit' I've found (such as it is). It's the problem with Radaris and Spokeo - they list residential names, and often times they throw in names of co-habitors, (and sometimes multiple name variations for a single person), but there are no associated relational records to build upon. When I do a search on this couple (and I did, on two sites) nothing shows up--no marriage record, no parents' names. So, for all I know, these could be one or two people who were adopted or legally changed their names by the time they got married, with no connection surname-wise to their family of origin, or they may even be two people in a common-law marriage, with no legal record of their names, births, or parentage. Which is fine, but it doesn't give me record tools to make more family connections with - like when I do a directory search for a person on ancestry, and it meshes with a yearbook searches (city/date) and/or addresses that other family members also have on their timelines for that year.

In any case, the DJS I am tracking never lived in NY or in Tarzana, CA, that I have found, yet--and the DJS (Shepherd) I did find who lived in Canyon County [formerly called Tarzana] has birthdates alternately listed as 1957, and Sep 1949...but not 1959...

Also, just now, I found the DS in Tacoma to have the middle initial "L" and she was b. Apr 1958.

And, the Oakey Blvd, Las Vegas, DS has "A" for a middle initial, b. 1965.


Going cross-eyed, now... Off to bed. :) :offtobed:
 
Just getting caught up here~~have had family in visiting....

I just re-read this post....

So, that means....for some reason, she needed to stay Becky Sue Turner between 1997-2001 for some reason???? What was that reason??? Someone NEEDED to find her in Idaho as Becky Sue Turner 10-15 years later...WHY and WHO needed to find her there???

Something tells me whoever helped FLEK change her identity DIDN'T know she changed it again....and...FLEK didn't trust that person all that much...

WHY oh why oh why???

Forgive me … this is probably no more related than I am to the King of Siam.

Boise, Idaho, 2001 rang a bell with me from the UID Lyle Stevik thread.

UID “Lyle Stevik” (suicide, Grays Harbor, WA, September 17, 2001) had attached earlobes. He gave a false address in Meridian, Idaho (10 minutes outside of Boise but addy connected to a motel/hotel).

Got looking through some old threads on Lyle, and came across this pic of Joaquin Cano Garcia (last seen in Morocco May 12, 1996) that someone suggested as a possible for Lyle … and IMO the resemblance to FLEK is uncanny.

Lyle on the left, Joaquin on the right:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Harbor-17-Sept-2001-5&p=12240382#post12240382

Can’t find background info on Joaquin, other than some pages seem to indicate he was a desperado of some type, file was at one time on Doe Network but no longer there, and I can’t find anything to indicate if he was ever located.

Joaquin Cano Garcia.jpg

(Pic of Joaquin Cano Garcia from Doenetwork
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/JCGarcia.jpg)

FLEK 1.jpgFLEK 2.jpgFLEK 3.jpg

PS: Not saying JCG = FLEK .. just wondering about a possible family connection.
 
I can't write the victim's friends because their names or comments weren't in those news articles you linked upthread. But I don't think I'd write them even if I had the names, to be honest. Nor would I write DJS's living relative(s). I'm not LE nor a federal investigator...I'd leave that sort of personal contact up to them.

When you looked, did you have access to public records (directories, yearbooks, military records, death and birth records, etc.) such as you'd find on an ancestry site? I can understand your doubts, and there is of course the chance I'm wrong. But every find has been a fit, and the consistent level of complex fits I've found is convincing me - it's the sort of 'aha' collection you do with ancestry research (each new find builds upon the previous verified hunch), and to be honest, I do have significant experience in recognizing those. Not to mention her father's CO military photo (and other relative photos) which would absolutely convince you; I'd post here but I'm afraid it'd be against TOS. (Are we allowed to post a photo if the person is both unnamed and deceased?)

The Debby Stalder who got in trouble was the Van Nuys Debbie Stalder (trial in Van Nuys), and I don't believe there were two Debby Stalders of the identical age living there at the same time. At least, two different ones don't show up in the yearbooks and public records that I've found. After high school graduation (1977) she disappears, (though I believe she may have been staying at least part of that time with her mother in Van Nuys), gets involved in drug dealing and a murder, then shows up 8 and 11 years after graduation testifying as state's witness in a murder trial. There's your missing decade. Between trials I'm thinking she was staying with the Stalder relative in Scottsdale, AZ. The coincidence that he also worked as the social security office branch mgr in Flagstaff is eyebrow-raising.
Sorry, just so I'm clear - there is a DS from the 1975 Grant High School, Van Nuys yearbook who uses the married name in her Classmates profile that is mentioned in EmiLove's screengrab from Radaris above. So that's not the DS that testified in the murder trial, right? Although the yearbook photo does hold a little resemblance to FLEK oddly....I'm keen to do some more research to see if I can find a photo of the missing DS so just want to make sure I'm on the correct trail.
 
I can't write the victim's friends because their names or comments weren't in those news articles you linked upthread. But I don't think I'd write them even if I had the names, to be honest. Nor would I write DJS's living relative(s). I'm not LE nor a federal investigator...I'd leave that sort of personal contact up to them.

When you looked, did you have access to public records (directories, yearbooks, military records, death and birth records, etc.) such as you'd find on an ancestry site? I can understand your doubts, and there is of course the chance I'm wrong. But every find has been a fit, and the consistent level of complex fits I've found is convincing me - it's the sort of 'aha' collection you do with ancestry research (each new find builds upon the previous verified hunch), and to be honest, I do have significant experience in recognizing those. Not to mention her father's CO military photo (and other relative photos) which would absolutely convince you; I'd post here but I'm afraid it'd be against TOS. (Are we allowed to post a photo if the person is both unnamed and deceased?)

The Debby Stalder who got in trouble was the Van Nuys Debbie Stalder (trial in Van Nuys), and I don't believe there were two Debby Stalders of the identical age living there at the same time. At least, two different ones don't show up in the yearbooks and public records that I've found. After high school graduation (1977) she disappears, (though I believe she may have been staying at least part of that time with her mother in Van Nuys), gets involved in drug dealing and a murder, then shows up 8 and 11 years after graduation testifying as state's witness in a murder trial. There's your missing decade. Between trials I'm thinking she was staying with the Stalder relative in Scottsdale, AZ. The coincidence that he also worked as the social security office branch mgr in Flagstaff is eyebrow-raising.

If you search the victim JC's name in google and fb you might still find people who talk about him. He apparently was on a debate team at USC and they still talk about him. There is more than one reference to his early death. The problem is not that you have not located the correct Debbie, which might be true, but determining that FLEK is Debbie. Unless there are reports that Debbie disappeared in 1988, what would you base your conclusion on? I only know Deborah J. Stalder testified in a Van Nuys courtroom, but I cannot find what city she is from or where she grew up. There is a Deborah J Stalder still living in California, and several Deborah Stalders elsewhere. That is also assuming the one you are looking for never took a married name. Did your deborah disappear or do you just not see a record of her that you think fits? Unless we find a photo of her back then, or someone that knows her recognizes FLEK, not sure how we can ever say its her. I googled her and there are posts on WS about 2 years ago debating DS connection to this case. Some of the current posters participated. Maybe you can take a look and see what they found out.
 
I have 2 sisters. If you look at sister 1, I resemble her. If you look at sister 2, there is no resemblance. Sister 2 has olive skin, dark hair, and no freckles like my mom and sister 1 and I are fair skinned with light brown to blonde hair and freckles. Why I am mentioning that is because it is very possible FLEK doesn't look like anyone in her family. Because of my own family, I don't place a lot of weight on FLEK resembling anyone else in her family.
 
Forgive me … this is probably no more related than I am to the King of Siam.

Boise, Idaho, 2001 rang a bell with me from the UID Lyle Stevik thread.

UID “Lyle Stevik” (suicide, Grays Harbor, WA, September 17, 2001) had attached earlobes. He gave a false address in Meridian, Idaho (10 minutes outside of Boise but addy connected to a motel/hotel).

Got looking through some old threads on Lyle, and came across this pic of Joaquin Cano Garcia (last seen in Morocco May 12, 1996) that someone suggested as a possible for Lyle … and IMO the resemblance to FLEK is uncanny.

Lyle on the left, Joaquin on the right:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Harbor-17-Sept-2001-5&p=12240382#post12240382

Can’t find background info on Joaquin, other than some pages seem to indicate he was a desperado of some type, file was at one time on Doe Network but no longer there, and I can’t find anything to indicate if he was ever located.

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(Pic of Joaquin Cano Garcia from Doenetwork
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/JCGarcia.jpg)

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PS: Not saying JCG = FLEK .. just wondering about a possible family connection.

Nice to see you SillyBilly! :seeya:

Thanks for making the connection. They DO look very similar!! He obviously looks Latino. So, is FLEK Latino? She looks Irish to me in some photos~~but in the picture that she is suntanned, she doesn't. My inclination is that an Irish person would burn instead of tan~~and FLEK looks very tan with an olive complexion. Hum...something to think about. Does that put us back to Doss? I wish we could get a rule out on her or confirmation.
 
I'm thinking her drug-dealer cohorts were ultimately being supplied by the Bangkok syndicate, yes--based on what was happening with the huge West Coast investigation at that same time period (see timeline upthread--I wove it in with her history). The "letter of reference" could have been been typed by a Roger Steinbeck in Bangkok (if she was there at some point--unlikely, unless she was possibly worked in BPDaniels' strip club over there). Or, the letter of reference could be something she made up (say, if her father went to the region for military--he served in Korea and Vietnam, according to his veteran's gravesite records). If her father wrote her a letter from there (he was serving overseas while she was growing up), she could have covered the body of the letter with a cover sheet, photocopied it, and then typed the letter of recommendation herself on the photocopy.

The way the letter is worded, though, is odd (even apart from sounding bland and fake). It sounds like whoever wrote the letter was both her landlord AND her employer, who was complimenting her on her work as well as not being too loud for the other tenants. If she was in the sex trade over there, it's a fairly creepy letter from her 'employer.'

Another curious oddity...there IS a Roger R Steinbeck who was admitted to the CA Bar in 2008. Wonder if there's any connection (a son or relative of the 1988 one if there was an actual Roger Steinbeck?)

I would normally think that as well, but like I said...I've seen that EXACT letter (grammar and punctuation mistakes and all). My run away friend had a copy of it~~showed it to me when I finally got back in touch with her years later and we talked about her running away. We had talked about the mistakes in the letter and she said no one really pays attention to that anyway in the jobs she was working. IE: waitress jobs, etc. My friend would have used it between 1983-1986, so I'm guessing it was around for awhile before FLEK starting using it.
 
I have possible Anaheim (jr high--name but no photo), and Van Nuys (highschool) listings for her. The 1975 photo was for a May 1975 yearbook (Ulysses S Grant high school), and as an underclassman, was likely taken in fall 1974 (at least that's how they did ours back then) - which would mean she was about 15 when it was taken. So no, I don't see a strong resemblance to the older LEK photos, but the tentative expression on her face (especially), the dark hair, brows, and hairline, the eyes, etc., could be a match IMO. My 15-yr old photos don't look much like my 28-yr old ones, either. Youth rounds the face somewhat. The interesting thing about the Stalder photos I've found...they all seem to have a familial tendency to not smile broadly at the camera; instead, most of them just look directly at the camera with a slightly open mouth. Intense eyes, a bit slack-jawed about the mouth.

The 1977 "Shield" yearbook photo (Ulysses S Grant high school) has curiously disappeared. I know there was discussion of it in the earlier threads, but I can no longer pull it up in the yearbook search. If anyone can post that photo, I'd sure love to see it.

Re the obit--do you mean the Tacoma dad obit? No, haven't seen that as I haven't made a Tacoma Stalder connection on my tree (yet), so no hints for the Tacoma family. I'd be interested in seeing it, though! My DJS's dad died in 1995 and was buried in a CA military cemetery. No obits, as was the usual for the men in this family.

Speaking of...

While researching I was struck by how many of the S family members did NOT have vital records (eg. Birth, marriage, and death certificates). Remember when LEK said to her future mother-in-law "we don't do that?" Well, she was right. The S family doesn't seem to believe in obits, either, as I've found none (with the exception of a couple of the South Dakota matriarchs). I don't know if this is a masonic thing or not--does anyone here know?

BBM. No not the Tacoma DS, she was mentioned in her father's Obit. That's how I found her maiden name. The Obit I'm talking about is for the father of the Los Angeles DS--the RS you mentioned above who died in 1995. It was only 2 lines. I found it in another news search engine. Here's what it said (I'm going to edit the names to protect their privacy a bit)

R*** "B***" St@lder, 62, of Anaheim died Dec. 15. Arrangements by Forest Lawn Mortuary, Cypress. Services held at Church of Our Fathers, Cypress.

Survivors: wife, C****; son, G*****; one grandchild.


Orange County Register, The (Santa Ana, CA) - Thursday, December 28, 1995
"



No mention of a daughter--if she died she would usually be mentioned, but not always. Some people just list survivors. Like I said I could be convinced with some twisting they deliberately left her out to protect her/protect them. It's also possible there was no big family conspiracy to hide her but that she continued to be a drug dealer after her testimony and the family disowned her/pretends she never existed. Are the people she put away with her testimony still alive/in prison?
 
Do you know what States they were born in? Many States don't release birth and marriage records due to identity theft.

Yes, thank you I wanted to mention that. It's harder to find records for living people. Not all records are on Ancestry.
 
You omitted two interesting thing about the 7th-day Adventists. One is that they have their own schismatic, cult-like subgroups too, the most well known of which were the Branch Davidians. (Although the notorious ones led by David Koresh were actually a splinter from the main Branch Davidians.) These groups were often caught up in these millennial enthusiasms (i.e., thinking that the world was about to end on a given day), disposing of all of their possessions, only to be inevitably disappointed & having to deal with this crisis of faith.

So there are other cults out there besides the FLDS, existing under the radar, that LEK may have come from.

The other interesting thing? It is to a 7th-day Adventist we owe the creation of the Graham cracker. Originally intended to be the perfect food, it became a quite successful snack food & made the owner a lot of money. (Not relevant to finding LEK's birth name, but it is an entertaining bit of trivia.)

Thanks! I did not know either of those facts about SDA's. SO here's a scary thing, a while back I had a hair-brained theory FLEK escaped from the Branch Davidians before the Waco raid. If you read their history 1987/1988 was a key time when there were big splits from that group. I searched for pictures of the Davidians and found one of an unnamed woman that looks a little like Lori. But that's all I ever found. I didn't think it was provable or enough evidence to bring up before, so I kept it to myself. Now I'll have to go back and see if I can find that photo.

ETA: Here is the photo I saw: http://www.wacotrib.com/news/religion/davidian/image_85e7cf1d-fcba-5c12-9854-fd806b8685cc.html
The woman I'm looking at is the one leaning over to hug and looking at the camera. Her hands don't look like Lori's hands but they are at a weird angle and she is twisting her body in an unnatural position-if you look at her legs it's really odd how she is bending and twisting at the same time. So we don't get a true idea of how tall she is next to the other women. This photo was taken in 1988 but I can't find exactly when or anyplace where the names of the women are given.
 
Sorry, just so I'm clear - there is a DS from the 1975 Grant High School, Van Nuys yearbook who uses the married name in her Classmates profile that is mentioned in EmiLove's screengrab from Radaris above. So that's not the DS that testified in the murder trial, right? Although the yearbook photo does hold a little resemblance to FLEK oddly....I'm keen to do some more research to see if I can find a photo of the missing DS so just want to make sure I'm on the correct trail.

Interesting that there is someone on Classmates connected to that 1975 photo. That would be the married person I mentioned upthread who has a different birthdate than my DJS, daughter of RS. The 1985 article posted yesterday mentioned that "26 year old" DJS was testifying. http://articles.latimes.com/1985-08-07/local/me-3831_1_execution-style-murders

That's a match to my DJS b. May 1959. Not sure if it's a match to the married DS, as her birthdates have been alternately found (last night) to be 1949 and 1957.

And, that 1975 yearbook photo (in itself) would not prove a connection to LEK to me, if that's what you're asking. It just came up in hints on ancestry (along with the Anaheim junior high yearbook that had no labeled photo of her) due to her having family in the area at that time. The site makes those possible connections and provides them as hints, though we are left to determine if they are indeed the person we are looking for. I'd have to see the 1977 senior photo (same school) to get off the fence, and find it unusual that WSers were able to see the photo a couple years ago and exclaim over the resemblance--but the photo and yearbook is no longer findable online (nor does it come up as a hint on ancestry). I spent the better part of an afternoon trying to dig it up, finally deciding it'd be easier to contact the local library. Real life has been unusually busy and full since then, so I threw the whole thing on the back burner.

To be clear again--the 1977 senior yearbook photo for a DS from same school (Ulysses S Grant, Van Nuys) was referenced in these threads (I did a forum search and read all the Stalder posts in here when I was digging all this up last month). There were early comments by WSers about how striking the similarity was. But I was new to this case last month, and after reading those comments, I was not able to ever find that 1977 senior photo again in a search (nor even find the yearbook on ancestry!). I am also not a member of Classmates, so if someone here is and can get hold of a copy, I'd really be interested.

I have 2 sisters. If you look at sister 1, I resemble her. If you look at sister 2, there is no resemblance. Sister 2 has olive skin, dark hair, and no freckles like my mom and sister 1 and I are fair skinned with light brown to blonde hair and freckles. Why I am mentioning that is because it is very possible FLEK doesn't look like anyone in her family. Because of my own family, I don't place a lot of weight on FLEK resembling anyone else in her family.

Agreed--and the sibling I found for DJS does not bear a striking resemblance to her. There is a possible third marriage record for her father, and if it is a match (no confirmation), then her sibling would have had a different (also later divorced) mother. Which, to me, makes sense on the individual timelines as far as where the siblings were living when.

I do, however, place a bit more weight on parent-child similarities. And to me, LEK bears a striking resemblance to DJS's dad RS, and also resembles several of his brothers. Those brothers/uncles, in turn, bear a striking resemblance to the photo of JTurner posted in these threads. So that, coupled with records finds, makes me suspect the connection.


BBM. No not the Tacoma DS, she was mentioned in her father's Obit. That's how I found her maiden name. The Obit I'm talking about is for the father of the Los Angeles DS--the RS you mentioned above who died in 1995. It was only 2 lines. I found it in another news search engine. Here's what it said (I'm going to edit the names to protect their privacy a bit)

"



No mention of a daughter--if she died she would usually be mentioned, but not always. Some people just list survivors. Like I said I could be convinced with some twisting they deliberately left her out to protect her/protect them. It's also possible there was no big family conspiracy to hide her but that she continued to be a drug dealer after her testimony and the family disowned her/pretends she never existed. Are the people she put away with her testimony still alive/in prison?

Thanks, Gardener1850! No, I had not seen this brief obit, though it is a definite match to my S family. Personally, the fact that DJS is left out makes me think all the more that she may have been our LEK in TX and possibly still being hidden and protected by family. Dad RS died at the end of 1995, and if I recall, LEK declared bankruptcy in 1997, after a couple years of taking out car and student loans. The multiple overlapping addresses that I have for RS (one posh home plus several apartment or townhome addresses) and also have for C and G until RS's death (and even beyond) lead me to believe her father was possibly continued military and/or that there was no shortage of money. So he either was paid quite well in his vocation (continued military or government work after Vietnam?), or he was involved in something criminally lucrative (drug trafficking from his military days with Asian contacts?). One expensive Los Angeles 'burb golf course address I found, in particular, is listed as an address for RS (and his subsequent family members) from the time he graduated military school at age 21 until well past his death (with C's name continuing to be associated with it as well). I have wondered if it (or some of those apts) is government-owned. I have found not only the identical multiple addresses repeated over the years, but with slight variations to his middle initial or associated birth date. G also did this a bit after joining the military. You know they are the same people due to their joint address, so the fudging is either intentional or the public records system is making consistent 'mistakes.' (I do have a 1953 address for dad RS at Quantico, for what that's worth. Could just have been Marine training.)

Anyway, I've found no marriage or death dates for a DJS in that L.A. area from 1977 to 1995 to otherwise explain her absence from the obit and if the DJS who appears earlier in these multiple address records with this family was LEK, she was alive and well under an alias in TX. Possibly 'disowned' by family, but the plethora of PO boxes around the country near military bases makes me think otherwise.

And, I don't know the answer to your last question. Hopefully someone else might have that?
 
Interesting that there is someone on Classmates connected to that 1975 photo. That would be the married person I mentioned upthread who has a different birthdate than my DJS, daughter of RS. The 1985 article posted yesterday mentioned that "26 year old" DJS was testifying. http://articles.latimes.com/1985-08-07/local/me-3831_1_execution-style-murders

That's a match to my DJS b. 1959. Not sure if it's a match to the married DS, as her birthdates have been alternately found (last night) to be 1949 and 1957.

And, that 1975 yearbook photo (in itself) would not prove a connection to LEK to me, if that's what you're asking. It just came up in hints on ancestry (along with the Anaheim junior high yearbook that had no labeled photo of her) due to her having family in the area at that time. The site makes those possible connections and provides them as hints, though we are left to determine if they are indeed the person we are looking for. I'd have to see the 1977 senior photo (same school) to get off the fence, and find it unusual that WSers were able to see the photo a couple years ago and exclaim over the resemblance--but the photo and yearbook is no longer findable online (nor does it come up as a hint on ancestry). I spent the better part of an afternoon trying to dig it up, finally deciding it'd be easier to contact the local library. Real life has been unusually busy and full since then, so I threw the whole thing on the back burner.

To be clear again--the 1977 senior yearbook photo for a DS from same school (Ulysses S Grant, Van Nuys) was referenced in these threads (I did a forum search and read all the Stalder posts in here when I was digging all this up last month). There were early comments by WSers about how striking the similarity was. But I was new to this case last month, and after reading those comments, I was not able to ever find that 1977 senior photo again in a search (nor even find the yearbook on ancestry!). I am also not a member of Classmates, so if someone here is and can get hold of a copy, I'd really be interested.



Agreed--and the sibling I found for DJS does not bear a striking resemblance to her. There is a possible third marriage record for her father, and if it is a match (no confirmation), then her sibling would have had a different (also later divorced) mother. Which, to me, makes sense on the individual timelines as far as where the siblings were living when.

I do, however, place a bit more weight on parent-child similarities. And to me, LEK bears a striking resemblance to DJS's dad RS, and also resembles several of his brothers. Those brothers/uncles, in turn, bear a striking resemblance to the photo of JTurner posted in these threads. So that, coupled with records finds, makes me suspect the connection.




Thanks, Gardener1850! No, I had not seen this brief obit, though it is a definite match to my S family. Personally, the fact that DJS is left out makes me think all the more that she may have been our LEK in TX and possibly still being hidden and protected by family. Dad RS died at the end of 1995, and if I recall, LEK declared bankruptcy in 1997, after a couple years of taking out car and student loans. The multiple overlapping addresses that I have for RS (one posh home plus several apartment or townhome addresses) and also have for C and G until RS's death (and even beyond) lead me to believe her father was possibly continued military and/or that there was no shortage of money. So he either was paid quite well (continued military or government work after Vietnam?) or he was involved in something criminally lucrative (drug trafficking from his military days with Asian contacts?). One CA Los Angeles 'burb golf course address I found, in particular, is listed as an address for RS (and his subsequent family members) from the time he graduated military school at age 21 until well past his death (with C's name continuing to be associated with it as well). I have wondered if it (or some of those apts) is government-owned. I have found not only the identical multiple addresses repeated over the years, but with slight variations to his middle initial or associated birth date. G also did this a bit after joining the military. You know they are the same people due to their joint address, so the fudging is either intentional or the public records system is making consistent 'mistakes.' (I do have a 1953 address for dad RS at Quantico, for what that's worth. Could just have been Marine training.)

Anyway, I've found no marriage or death dates for a DJS in that L.A. area from 1977 to 1995 to otherwise explain her absence from the obit and if the DJS who appears earlier in these multiple address records with this family was LEK, she was alive and well under an alias in TX.

Just to make sure I'm understanding how you're making the connection between DJS and the RS in the obituary I posted above, are you saying you have them both at the same address? Is that how you drew the conclusion he is her dad? Because that name is common and the Los Angeles birth records only give mother's maiden name. A simpler explanation for the obituary is that the RS who died in Orange County, CA never had a daughter named Deborah. Can you point us to the address they have in common?
 
And, that 1975 yearbook photo (in itself) would not prove a connection to LEK to me, if that's what you're asking. It just came up in hints on ancestry (along with the Anaheim junior high yearbook that had no labeled photo of her) due to her having family in the area at that time. The site makes those possible connections and provides them as hints, though we are left to determine if they are indeed the person we are looking for. I'd have to see the 1977 senior photo (same school) to get off the fence, and find it unusual that WSers were able to see the photo a couple years ago and exclaim over the resemblance--but the photo and yearbook is no longer findable online (nor does it come up as a hint on ancestry). I spent the better part of an afternoon trying to dig it up, finally deciding it'd be easier to contact the local library. Real life has been unusually busy and full since then, so I threw the whole thing on the back burner.
RS&BBM

Those "hints" Ancestry is giving you are taken from other people's family trees. People who suspected DS of being LEK have made case theory family trees and attached those year book photos. I also see hints for Roger Steinbeck when I type in DS's name. But there is no concrete link. The hints are drawn from those theory trees. You are seeing multiple birth dates for DS because there is more than one person with that name. When the birthdate is wrong you have to have a good reason to link the records (like you know for sure it's an error or there was confirmed identity theft) or else you should conclude they are not the same person. I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive, but I'm having trouble figuring out how you concluded that different DS's with different DOB were all the same person. It sounds like you are depending on the hints. Those are wrong (IMO) because they are based on theories of other people, not on actual records.
 
Just to make sure I'm understanding how you're making the connection between DJS and the RS in the obituary I posted above, are you saying you have them both at the same address? Is that how you drew the conclusion he is her dad? Because that name is common and the Los Angeles birth records only give mother's maiden name. A simpler explanation for the obituary is that the RS who died in Orange County, CA never had a daughter named Deborah. Can you point us to the address they have in common?

I can try but it may be a long post, and unfortunately real life demands I leave in 15 minutes and I'm not ready yet (ack!). So will have to come back later, do the research and answer your question.
 
RS&BBM

Those "hints" Ancestry is giving you are taken from other people's family trees. People who suspected DS of being LEK have made case theory family trees and attached those year book photos. I also see hints for Roger Steinbeck when I type in DS's name. But there is no concrete link. The hints are drawn from those theory trees. You are seeing multiple birth dates for DS because there is more than one person with that name. When the birthdate is wrong you have to have a good reason to link the records (like you know for sure it's an error or there was confirmed identity theft) or else you should conclude they are not the same person. I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive, but I'm having trouble figuring out how you concluded that different DS's with different DOB were all the same person. It sounds like you are depending on the hints. Those are wrong (IMO) because they are based on theories of other people, not on actual records.

I understand how the hints work, having been on ancestry for several years and locating dozens of our own missing family members (due to alias and hiding issues). That is why I am 'on the fence' about the pictured DS in the 1975 yearbook, especially since I can't see the follow up photo from 1977. I am not on the fence, however, that there was a daughter in this family named DJS. Again, back later, as soon as I can to answer more. :)
 
I would normally think that as well, but like I said...I've seen that EXACT letter (grammar and punctuation mistakes and all). My run away friend had a copy of it~~showed it to me when I finally got back in touch with her years later and we talked about her running away. We had talked about the mistakes in the letter and she said no one really pays attention to that anyway in the jobs she was working. IE: waitress jobs, etc. My friend would have used it between 1983-1986, so I'm guessing it was around for awhile before FLEK starting using it.

So you're saying that there was a letter floating around in the late 1980s used by people who wanted to hide their past? Did your friend happen to mention where he/she got it? (I'm guessing it was most likely taken from one of those sketchy "How to become a different person" books that used to be advertised in the back of sleazy magazines & have been mentioned in this forum over the years -- but it might have been shared in a loose-knit group of people.)

This is an unexpected fact...
 
Thanks! I did not know either of those facts about SDA's. SO here's a scary thing, a while back I had a hair-brained theory FLEK escaped from the Branch Davidians before the Waco raid. If you read their history 1987/1988 was a key time when there were big splits from that group. I searched for pictures of the Davidians and found one of an unnamed woman that looks a little like Lori. But that's all I ever found. I didn't think it was provable or enough evidence to bring up before, so I kept it to myself. Now I'll have to go back and see if I can find that photo.

ETA: Here is the photo I saw: http://www.wacotrib.com/news/religion/davidian/image_85e7cf1d-fcba-5c12-9854-fd806b8685cc.html
The woman I'm looking at is the one leaning over to hug and looking at the camera. Her hands don't look like Lori's hands but they are at a weird angle and she is twisting her body in an unnatural position-if you look at her legs it's really odd how she is bending and twisting at the same time. So we don't get a true idea of how tall she is next to the other women. This photo was taken in 1988 but I can't find exactly when or anyplace where the names of the women are given.

IMHO, she doesn't look much like LEK, but you might still be onto something: although a small group, there were more people in the Branch Davidians than appear in published photographs. It's a line of research (aka a rabbit hole ;-) worth investigating.

As for the SDA, I learned about their connection to the Branch Davidians (which most 7th-day Adventists would rather forget) thru Maritn Gardner's book, Urantia: The Great Cult Mystery: many of the people connected with that odd & lengthy book had SDA backgrounds. And the Urantia Foundation (which published the Urantia Book for years) is a very mysterious & litigious group. Not to say LEK had anything to do with the Urantia people, & if she had it would only be replacing one mystery with another.

I mention all of this just to point out that if you believe LEK was a refugee from some cult, there are many possible candidates besides LDS splinter groups mentioned here & in related threads. And many more who have no connection to the SDA, either: as long as one is not at the center of some scandal or crime, it can exist for decades without ever attracting publicity. Yeah, it's sort of an embarrassment of riches.
 
I apologize for posting three times in a row, but I'm going to throw out an idea I just had while writing my last post. It might already have been mentioned in a thread here before. Or it might be just a coincidence.

* At one point, LEK described her father as an "failed stockbroker"

* LEK first recorded existence is in 1988

* 19 October 1987, stock markets around the world suffered a major crash. The Dow lost over 22% of its value, so this was a significant financial event.

I wonder if LEK's father had lost his job in the 1987 market crash, & as a result (either direct -- e.g. he & her mother/stepmother committed suicide -- or indirect) she changed her identity. If nothing else, it could explain why she picked 1988 (out of all possible years) to change her identity.
 
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