TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[CoverMeCagney]

Just pootling about having a little google here and there, and adding a few questions as I go:

1) How did she get BST's date of birth which would have been needed to obtain the birth certificate? It isn't on BST's grave or mentioned in obits etc, and it was apparently incorrect on BST's death certificate. Is that right? Because if it is, then she must have been told the DoB by someone, or gone and looked it up somewhere.

2) Chris McCandless - this photo shocks me whenever I see it, the similarities are amazing, far closer than anyone else I've seen suggested. Not that anyone is suggesting him, and he looks very different on other pictures, but I've read somewhere that before he went on his wilderness trek he found out his father had a whole other secret family.



3) I've also read the following "....in the Live Chat w/Velling that she obtained the passport under Lori Kennedy but listed Becky Turner's parents as her parents on the application". Do we believe that to be true? Why would she do that?

4) I googled "402 months" and found a man who got sentenced to that long after raping a 19 year old woman in 1984, in PA. Has this been covered already? (probably!)
http://articles.mcall.com/1984-12-05/news/2441580_1_sentencing-guidelines-co-defendant-robbery

5) Is this the same Ben Perkins (an attorney from CA who got disbarred in 1989 for cocking up bankruptcy filings)
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-12/news/mn-396_1_consumer-bankruptcies/3

Sorry if I've brought up things that have been done to death already!!

 

[Hank36]

Crazy question:

Could she have gotten breast implants for any reason other than cosmetic? Can women get implants post-mastectomy, or perhaps an injury to a breast? (I would have to believe that it is entirely possible to receive only one implant, and not a set of two.)

I'm not willing to assume that she got the breast implants in order to work as a stripper. That said, as with much of this case, so many details about this woman have never been made public.

I think the real mystery in this case is what her husband and her in-laws were able to discover about her, and whether they chose to keep any information private in order to protect her daughter. If I'm starting to lose interest in trying to figure out answers to these questions, it's because I don't think either the family or the SSA are currently pursuing any answers themselves.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Crazy question:

Could she have gotten breast implants for any reason other than cosmetic? Can women get implants post-mastectomy, or perhaps an injury to a breast? (I would have to believe that it is entirely possible to receive only one implant, and not a set of two.)

I'm not willing to assume that she got the breast implants in order to work as a stripper. That said, as with much of this case, so many details about this woman have never been made public.

I think the real mystery in this case is what her husband and her in-laws were able to discover about her, and whether they chose to keep any information private in order to protect her daughter. If I'm starting to lose interest in trying to figure out answers to these questions, it's because I don't think either the family or the SSA are currently pursuing any answers themselves.

Yes. They can, and sometimes do.

And I very much believe that the Ruffs know more about her than they have revealed. Blake especially. How are you married to someone and know absolutely zero about their past? Even if she didn't reveal specifics, she had to have revealed generalizations. Even most strangers who are intimate exchange random pillow talk about how much they enjoy going to certain places or they have visited certain sites, etc. He knew she enjoyed watching basketball games. What else? Surely there was more. And then there's the Cuban food. That's an odd one. If she had liked Mexican, one wouldn't wonder. This is Texas. There's a taco place on every corner. But Cuban? That's a clue. Someone tell us more.

And she did all of this, and came this far, to end it all with a bullet to the head on Christmas?

Who are you, Lori???

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Me again! Sick of me yet?!

Set of documents relating to Lori. I hadn't seen some of these (eg her CV):

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f249/strange-life-death-lori-erica-ruff-163134/

 

[bears10]

Just pootling about having a little google here and there, and adding a few questions as I go:

1) How did she get BST's date of birth which would have been needed to obtain the birth certificate? It isn't on BST's grave or mentioned in obits etc, and it was apparently incorrect on BST's death certificate. Is that right? Because if it is, then she must have been told the DoB by someone, or gone and looked it up somewhere.

2) Chris McCandless - this photo shocks me whenever I see it, the similarities are amazing, far closer than anyone else I've seen suggested. Not that anyone is suggesting him, and he looks very different on other pictures, but I've read somewhere that before he went on his wilderness trek he found out his father had a whole other secret family.

View attachment 100643

3) I've also read the following "....in the Live Chat w/Velling that she obtained the passport under Lori Kennedy but listed Becky Turner's parents as her parents on the application". Do we believe that to be true? Why would she do that?

4) I googled "402 months" and found a man who got sentenced to that long after raping a 19 year old woman in 1984, in PA. Has this been covered already? (probably!)
http://articles.mcall.com/1984-12-05/news/2441580_1_sentencing-guidelines-co-defendant-robbery

5) Is this the same Ben Perkins (an attorney from CA who got disbarred in 1989 for cocking up bankruptcy filings)
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-12/news/mn-396_1_consumer-bankruptcies/3

Sorry if I've brought up things that have been done to death already!!

Number 1 has been driving me nuts. I really think she had help from an underground organization, especially bc of this. IMO there's no way she walked around a graveyard and picked BST. So unlikely. JMO

 

[MrsMole]

Me again! Sick of me yet?!

Set of documents relating to Lori. I hadn't seen some of these (eg her CV):

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f249/strange-life-death-lori-erica-ruff-163134/

I think your previous post brought up some really great questions. One that has had me hung up for a while is how she knew BST's birth date. No matter how you look at it, it doesn't seem to make sense.
- If we assume she got the idea for the BST identity walking around the cemetery, that provides no answer to how she knew BST's birth date. It also doesn't explain who she knew her birth place either.
- If we assume she saw the house fire article through microfiche, it STILL doesn't explain how she knew BST's birth date. It also doesn't really explain how she knew her birth place either, since the article has an error and lists Becky Sue Turner as being born in CA and WA.
- If we assume she got the ID from an identity broker, I guess that could explain where she got both pieces of info. But that begs a lot of other questions, like how did she know where to find an identity broker and how did she pay for one?
- If we assume she knew BST/knew the family, it's still a stretch. She would have been approx. BST's age (somewhere between 2 and 9) when BST passed away, meaning she had to remember a toddler's birthday for a reaaaallllly long time. Since we can assume she probably didn't write it down between age 2 and age 9 for later use, this seems very unlikely.

So. How did she get BST's birth date? Either there is some way she got the data that we aren't thinking of, or she just knew the year and somehow got lucky by calling the county records department and getting the birth cert without knowing the exact date. Seems like a stretch, but you never know.

 

[Gardener1850]

Just pootling about having a little google here and there, and adding a few questions as I go:

1) How did she get BST's date of birth which would have been needed to obtain the birth certificate? It isn't on BST's grave or mentioned in obits etc, and it was apparently incorrect on BST's death certificate. Is that right? Because if it is, then she must have been told the DoB by someone, or gone and looked it up somewhere.

2) Chris McCandless - this photo shocks me whenever I see it, the similarities are amazing, far closer than anyone else I've seen suggested. Not that anyone is suggesting him, and he looks very different on other pictures, but I've read somewhere that before he went on his wilderness trek he found out his father had a whole other secret family.

3) I've also read the following "....in the Live Chat w/Velling that she obtained the passport under Lori Kennedy but listed Becky Turner's parents as her parents on the application". Do we believe that to be true? Why would she do that?

4) I googled "402 months" and found a man who got sentenced to that long after raping a 19 year old woman in 1984, in PA. Has this been covered already? (probably!)
http://articles.mcall.com/1984-12-05/news/2441580_1_sentencing-guidelines-co-defendant-robbery

5) Is this the same Ben Perkins (an attorney from CA who got disbarred in 1989 for cocking up bankruptcy filings)
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-12/news/mn-396_1_consumer-bankruptcies/3

Sorry if I've brought up things that have been done to death already!!

1. We've been talking about this again recently. Still driving me crazy.
2 I was so intrigued by Mccandless' similarity that I looked up his story and found all his siblings. His father's other family was not a secret when he was a kid. They grew up part of their childhood together and spent vacations and holidays together. There are pictures of all the kids on the beach and hiking together on family trips. Chris and his sister were very close to their half-siblings--two of which were born in overlapping years with them. His dad had two women pregnant at the same time. The only secret was that his dad had not actually divorced his first wife when he left to live with his 2nd wife. Chris's parents were also very abusive and the siblings have spoken out about that in recent years. His sister Carine, who wrote a book about the parents abuse driving Chris into the wilderness, looks a bit like FLEK. So I tracked down all 3 of his half sisters (and 3 half brothers). They are all on fb or other websites. Two even posed with Sean Penn for a movie that came out about Chris. SO unless Chris' dad had a 3rd secret wife I don't think FLEK is related to them.

3. Yes, she used BST's parents names because she was claiming to have changed her name from BST to Lori. She had to have a BC to apply for a passport and BST's was the only one she had that was tied to the LEK identity.

4. I tried briefly to discover who might be the 19 year old but did not find out (and probably better not to out a rape victim anyway)

5. Yes That is him. That article has been discussed a lot from the very early threads. We have debated whether the disbarment means he was dirty or just a bad attorney. He continued to work as a para-legal and dispense legal advice that way long after he was disbarred. In the early 80's he also gave legal aide to a Church-run Shelter for women escaping domestic violence.

 

[honesty]

I for one would LOVE to hear more about what you have learned about the underground. It was still alive and well in the early 90's as well. Beyond then I have no idea of such activities still existing.
I could not count the hours I've sat deep in thought trying to figure out who FLEK was and how she pulled all this off. There's almost NO WAY she did this in her own. She was very young when she got her Idaho ID. I would say 22 TOPS. Most people that age may think of pulling something off lile she did but not be able to follow through the way she did.



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[Laughing]

Anyone available in Dallas to try for her bankruptcy papers?

Didn't she have a debt to a pain specialist?

She is tall, has long hands, fertility problems, breast implants -- what if she had some sort of mixed chromosomes?

So many questions!

During her life, probably few (or none) laid awake at night thinking about her -- now a bunch of us do....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I for one would LOVE to hear more about what you have learned about the underground. It was still alive and well in the early 90's as well. Beyond then I have no idea of such activities still existing.
I could not count the hours I've sat deep in thought trying to figure out who FLEK was and how she pulled all this off. There's almost NO WAY she did this in her own. She was very young when she got her Idaho ID. I would say 22 TOPS. Most people that age may think of pulling something off lile she did but not be able to follow through the way she did.



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From what I have read tonight it seems Ben P was a bit of a dodgy attorney. I would not be at all surprised if he knows dams well who Lori was but can't / won't say cos he'll get told off again.

 

[Gardener1850]

From what I have read tonight it seems Ben P was a bit of a dodgy attorney. I would not be at all surprised if he knows dams well who Lori was but can't / won't say cos he'll get told off again.

Ben Perkins died in 2013, so he is not talking.

 

[honesty]

Just pootling about having a little google here and there, and adding a few questions as I go:

1) How did she get BST's date of birth which would have been needed to obtain the birth certificate? It isn't on BST's grave or mentioned in obits etc, and it was apparently incorrect on BST's death certificate. Is that right? Because if it is, then she must have been told the DoB by someone, or gone and looked it up somewhere.

2) Chris McCandless - this photo shocks me whenever I see it, the similarities are amazing, far closer than anyone else I've seen suggested. Not that anyone is suggesting him, and he looks very different on other pictures, but I've read somewhere that before he went on his wilderness trek he found out his father had a whole other secret family.

View attachment 100643

3) I've also read the following "....in the Live Chat w/Velling that she obtained the passport under Lori Kennedy but listed Becky Turner's parents as her parents on the application". Do we believe that to be true? Why would she do that?

4) I googled "402 months" and found a man who got sentenced to that long after raping a 19 year old woman in 1984, in PA. Has this been covered already? (probably!)
http://articles.mcall.com/1984-12-05/news/2441580_1_sentencing-guidelines-co-defendant-robbery

5) Is this the same Ben Perkins (an attorney from CA who got disbarred in 1989 for cocking up bankruptcy filings)
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-12/news/mn-396_1_consumer-bankruptcies/3

Sorry if I've brought up things that have been done to death already!!

McCandless story is AMAZING! Ues his father had a wife and kids by a lady in California and while he was still married he had children with Christopher's mother. He eventually divorced his wife and left his family in California and relocated with Christopher's mother and siblings out East.

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[CoverMeCagney]

Ben Perkins died in 2013, so he is not talking.

How old was he? And is there a connection between him and Jennifer Perkins (also mentioned in Lori's notes)?

Do you guys think he was involved in whatever capacity?

 

[Linda9681]

How old was he? And is there a connection between him and Jennifer Perkins (also mentioned in Lori's notes)?

Do you guys think he was involved in whatever capacity?

There is a thread dedicated to him here


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[Gardener1850]

How old was he? And is there a connection between him and Jennifer Perkins (also mentioned in Lori's notes)?

Do you guys think he was involved in whatever capacity?

Born in 1954 and he was BP Jr. His father BP Sr died in 2001. I did his complicated family history and could not find a Jennifer Perkins in his family anywhere. I think he could have been involved but never even met Lori. He could have just given her some "legal advice" over the phone. He was questioned before his death and claimed not to know her. It's also possible that FLEK (or the person writing the notes) was searching for someone by the last name of Perkins. Maybe the Ben Perkins she called was not the right Perkins family. His family came from Jackson County, MS. I can see someone on the phone asking BP Jr if he is related to the Perkins family in ______ (her home state) and he says, "No my family is from Jackson, MS". She writes down Jackson, M, thanks him and hangs up the phone. It could be as simple as that. Just one of many theories I have about Ben Perkins though. His involvement with the shelter made me strongly suspect he could have been involved in getting FLEK her new identity but I have not found any connection between him and the other players we know about.

 

[bears10]

I for one would LOVE to hear more about what you have learned about the underground. It was still alive and well in the early 90's as well. Beyond then I have no idea of such activities still existing.
I could not count the hours I've sat deep in thought trying to figure out who FLEK was and how she pulled all this off. There's almost NO WAY she did this in her own. She was very young when she got her Idaho ID. I would say 22 TOPS. Most people that age may think of pulling something off lile she did but not be able to follow through the way she did.



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I would love to share my research on the underground stuff. I have a lot of it lol. My best friends wedding is this weekend so give me a couple days and I'll send you some info and links that are really interesting and just seem way too coincidental.

 

[sunnynz]

.

So. How did she get BST's birth date? Either there is some way she got the data that we aren't thinking of, or she just knew the year and somehow got lucky by calling the county records department and getting the birth cert without knowing the exact date. Seems like a stretch, but you never know.

Yes this is a huge question mark for me and I believe she had help from an underground network which had access to public records. There is a coroner who is mentioned in previous posts on this thread whose name is a very similar spelling to the Laciner name on the notes page, he also has a bit of a sketchy past. It has been theorised that he, or someone similar, may have been a contact that may have provided such info for people on the run.

ETA: I just don't believe that someone so young could have completed such a seamless ID change (actually two ID changes in a short space of time) without some help. Especially in pre-internet days.

 

[sunnynz]

Anyone available in Dallas to try for her bankruptcy papers?

.

There was someone on here who offered a couple of weeks back to do some local research including this, sorry I can't remember which user it was.

 

[SavetheQueen]

There was someone on here who offered a couple of weeks back to do some local research including this, sorry I can't remember which user it was.

A lot of these documents should be available via online through PACER, or just through ordering them through the applicable agency if they're now public record. This week, I will look and see what I can personally get my hands on. Being a new person here, I'm not sure exactly what it is that I need to go after. Some direction or a listing would be great.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[sunnynz]

A lot of these documents should be available via online through PACER, or just through ordering them through the applicable agency if they're now public record. This week, I will look and see what I can personally get my hands on. Being a new person here, I'm not sure exactly what it is that I need to go after. Some direction or a listing would be great.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

Thanks, that'd be awesome. We talked about her bankruptcy papers, any additional papers on file for her LEK name change, and doing a search in local phone directories to see if it turned up any addresses for FLEK that we don't already know about. Ummm, there may have been other things people suggested too, I'm sure they will jump in with them if so.