TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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  • #1,381
Although, thinking about it... a till clock could be out by a few minutes as probably not linked online in 1988... OR some kind of daylight savings adjustment that hadn't been made to its clock?

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Just thinking about that. It could have actually been 0849, but the clock hadn't been adjusted for the seasonal time change.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *
 
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The records office was open by 7:49am?! Are these usual hours for these places (I'm UK and it's 9-5 for those places here...).

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This says they open at 8 AM: http://www.recorder.co.kern.ca.us/recorder/how_to_obtain.php

That is their opening time today but I would not be surprised if the Kern County Recorder showed up to find FLEK waiting on the doorstep and had her request from Friday all ready to go. She may have let her in and let her pick up the record and pay early on Monday. I suspect IIywrch's observations are right on. I think FLEK had already checked out of her motel (if she stayed in one) and planned to leave Bakersfield as soon as she got the document.
 
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If the birth certificate had been mailed, I'd bet there would have been a charge for this, too. Neither of the charges on the receipt seem to be a postage or mailing fee, suggesting it was picked up.
 
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5. One peculiar thing is how her teeth got so separated as she got older. My eyes tell me she had braces as a kid or had some extensive cosmetic dental work done before she became Becky Sue Turner in 1988. And her teeth were pretty good for a long time. Then that one picture with the hat . . . her teeth are separated as if she never had straight teeth at all. I'm wondering if there is some disease that would cause that. Me? I never had braces or work done and my teeth have remained the same way for the last 30 years. Not LEK's. Is there some nationality or ethnicity that is more susceptible to some kind of disease that changes the configuration of a person's jaw? Is there a genetic makeup that's more prone to that? That might also be helpful in narrowing done her nationality. Also, maybe someone should pony up a couple bucks for her DNA to be traced to find out what her ancestry is. Has that been done yet?

I wrote a long response to this but my computer ate it. Extracted molars could be the cause for shifting teeth. This is why dentists push people to save molars instead of yanking them.

I'm just getting caught up on this thread..apologies if this has been mentioned already...

I'm certainly no dentist, but I had perfect teeth growing up. I'm around FLEK's age and I'm now starting to have problems due to drink pop/soda. That could be a reason for the separation, I'm not sure.

I also have a friend (she's Greek) and she has Sjogren's Syndrome. In other words, dry mouth. Although my friend doesn't have separation of her teeth like FLEK did, it does cause decay. I have also heard that diabetes does the same thing as well. From what i read, there are many things that could cause tooth decay, so IMHO I don't think it will help us identify who she is. Unfortunately.
 
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Gum disease can cause movement of teeth, and teeth do move around most people's mouth as they age. (Orthodontist's refer to this as "growing", love it!) If someone has had orthodontic treatment, without adequate retention, (more common a few decades ago, if FLEK did have ortho) then teeth can relapse into their earlier positions. (BigCityAccountant- I am a dentist, and implore you to give soda up, it is so destructive)
 
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Gum disease can cause movement of teeth, and teeth do move around most people's mouth as they age. (Orthodontist's refer to this as "growing", love it!) If someone has had orthodontic treatment, without adequate retention, (more common a few decades ago, if FLEK did have ortho) then teeth can relapse into their earlier positions. (BigCityAccountant- I am a dentist, and implore you to give soda up, it is so destructive)


LOL minusfour we should be friends, I have thousands of dollars of dental work. & With more pending. lol

Yes if FLEK didn't keep up with a dental care plan + not using retainers, her teeth would shift. (Aside from missing molars, which can cause shifting.)

When I have time I'll look at her photos- I just noticed her nose job didn't look that great.
 
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Gum disease can cause movement of teeth, and teeth do move around most people's mouth as they age. (Orthodontist's refer to this as "growing", love it!) If someone has had orthodontic treatment, without adequate retention, (more common a few decades ago, if FLEK did have ortho) then teeth can relapse into their earlier positions. (BigCityAccountant- I am a dentist, and implore you to give soda up, it is so destructive)

Great to have an expert opinion here! Do you think the deterioration of her teeth could have been caused by bulimia? We know that she struggled with that at least at one time in her life. How about drug abuse, could that cause that kind of damage? (Referring to the damage seen in the 'pink hat' picture).
 
  • #1,388
Gum disease can cause movement of teeth, and teeth do move around most people's mouth as they age. (Orthodontist's refer to this as "growing", love it!) If someone has had orthodontic treatment, without adequate retention, (more common a few decades ago, if FLEK did have ortho) then teeth can relapse into their earlier positions. (BigCityAccountant- I am a dentist, and implore you to give soda up, it is so destructive)

Could it have been caused by some sort of injury? Say she'd been punched in the mouth, could anything like that cause the teeth to separate or grow apart?
 
  • #1,389
I went back and had another look at the photos. The pink hat photo is interesting, because the teeth positions are so different. In that photo, the two upper central incisors look slightly discoloured, and-to my eye- the left central incisor, (on the right side in the photo, mirror image), looks smaller than the right-both of these factors suggest that these teeth had been restored with a white filling material. Injury can certainly move a tooth, but the movement looks symmetrical-in one of the earlier photos, there is a gap between the two central teeth, and then in the pink hat photo there are gaps between the two central teeth and both left and right lateral incisors. Bulimia certainly causes tooth damage, but in the upper teeth it is usually mostly on the surfaces closest to the roof of the mouth, (where the vomit hits) and on the biting surfaces of the back teeth until it is quite severe. If the two central incisors had been restored in the pink hat photo, it may be that this was necessary due to bulimia. (And her weight did seem to go up and down)
It's a pity that the earlier photos don't show her teeth more clearly.
It could be that she had had some cosmetic work-veneers-that were taken off by the time of the pink hat photo. (So the gaps were always there, but were hidden by the veneers) That would have been super expensive, and her teeth in the pink hat photo don't look terrible-if I had teeth that looked like that I wouldn't be spending thousands for cosmetic purposes.
My best guess is that she had orthodontic treatment and that this had started relapsing by the time of the pink hat photo. If you look at the fullness of her smile in the earlier photo, the teeth all have a slight inclination outwards, like Angelina Jolie's smile) Retention of tooth position
post orthodontic treatment has always been troublesome, although this has improved enormously in the past decade or so.(Too late for FLEK)
 
  • #1,390
I went back and had another look at the photos. The pink hat photo is interesting, because the teeth positions are so different. In that photo, the two upper central incisors look slightly discoloured, and-to my eye- the left central incisor, (on the right side in the photo, mirror image), looks smaller than the right-both of these factors suggest that these teeth had been restored with a white filling material. Injury can certainly move a tooth, but the movement looks symmetrical-in one of the earlier photos, there is a gap between the two central teeth, and then in the pink hat photo there are gaps between the two central teeth and both left and right lateral incisors. Bulimia certainly causes tooth damage, but in the upper teeth it is usually mostly on the surfaces closest to the roof of the mouth, (where the vomit hits) and on the biting surfaces of the back teeth until it is quite severe. If the two central incisors had been restored in the pink hat photo, it may be that this was necessary due to bulimia. (And her weight did seem to go up and down)
It's a pity that the earlier photos don't show her teeth more clearly.
It could be that she had had some cosmetic work-veneers-that were taken off by the time of the pink hat photo. (So the gaps were always there, but were hidden by the veneers) That would have been super expensive, and her teeth in the pink hat photo don't look terrible-if I had teeth that looked like that I wouldn't be spending thousands for cosmetic purposes.
My best guess is that she had orthodontic treatment and that this had started relapsing by the time of the pink hat photo. If you look at the fullness of her smile in the earlier photo, the teeth all have a slight inclination outwards, like Angelina Jolie's smile) Retention of tooth position
post orthodontic treatment has always been troublesome, although this has improved enormously in the past decade or so.(Too late for FLEK)

Thank you so much for this analysis. FLEK's teeth have been the subject of much scrutiny and speculation, so your analysis is really very helpful.
One of the ideas that I have seen tossed around is that she may have sometimes worn temporary, removable teeth covers-- like snap on veneers. I don't know the proper name for them, but I guess actors wear them sometimes? Do you have any thoughts about whether or not she might have been wearing such a thing in some of the photos?
 
  • #1,391
Thank you so much for this analysis. FLEK's teeth have been the subject of much scrutiny and speculation, so your analysis is really very helpful.
One of the ideas that I have seen tossed around is that she may have sometimes worn temporary, removable teeth covers-- like snap on veneers. I don't know the proper name for them, but I guess actors wear them sometimes? Do you have any thoughts about whether or not she might have been wearing such a thing in some of the photos?


I agree! Thank you so much minusfour for joining us and welcome to our group!! :wagon:

Your analysis has provided much insight about FLEK....and I'm working on giving up the soda pop! LOL...when we were kids we never had it, only for birthdays and special holidays...I blame my parents for why I like it so much as an adult...LOL
 
  • #1,392
Just looking up the departure date on the passport application. I found this to be interesting...it may or may not be related.

The Germanreunification (German: Deutsche Wiedervereinigung) was the process in 1990 in which the German Democratic Republic(GDR/East Germany) joined the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG/West Germany) to form the reunited nation of Germany, and when Berlinreunited into a single city, as provided by its then Grundgesetz constitution Article 23.
The East German regime started to falter in May 1989, when the removal of Hungary's border fence with Austria opened a hole in the Iron Curtain. It caused an exodus of thousands of East Germans fleeing to West Germany and Austria via Hungary. The Peaceful Revolution, a series of protests by East Germans, led to the GDR's first free elections on 18 March 1990, and to the negotiations between the GDR and FRG that culminated in a Unification Treaty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reunification
 
  • #1,393
Hello all...just catching up.

A few quick questions/observations:

1. On BPJr: Have we looked into a few businesses he was listed as agent on in the California business filings? I know attorneys are often listed as agents but these businesses seem somewhat questionable.
2. On the note: Since BPJr was disbarred in 1989, I feel like the note page is from before that. Given the name of the office, it just goes to my gut.
3. I read a few threads back about BPJr and connection with immigrant groups in the area. It seems he would know identity brokers or even just the hoops to jump through.
4. Also! BPJr attended an unaccredited law school aimed at social idealists. The catalogue for the school stresses these ideas. So, I feel this could be a hint into his mindset. It made me think he had a certain level of respect for the court system and he might be willing to go around it if he thought the cause was just.

Moo. Carry on!


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Not sure if it's a scar, but no by "bump on her forehead" I mean the way FLEK had a vertical line running from the inner edge of each eyebrow up her forehead towards her hair line. Can't tell if it's a bump or an impression but Kimberly seems to have a similar vertical impression. I'll see if I can attach a picture.
attachment.php
Sorry, your post is a bit old, but i'd like to point something out. When i was born, I had a birthmark on my forehead (red, shaped a bit like a rabbit), that faded as I aged. When i was about 16/17, I have many photos without it.

Now that I'm 30, for whatever reason the birthmark has become more prominent and it can sometimes look similar to the "bump" in the photo.

I'm not at home right now, but if that would be helpful in any way, when i get back i can try to show you an example for comparison.

Edit: also, sorry if this has been resolved, I didnt have a chance to look through the entire thread. Their eyes seem to be a different shape an colour? Just contacts or?
 
  • #1,396
Sorry, your post is a bit old, but i'd like to point something out. When i was born, I had a birthmark on my forehead (red, shaped a bit like a rabbit), that faded as I aged. When i was about 16/17, I have many photos without it.

Now that I'm 30, for whatever reason the birthmark has become more prominent and it can sometimes look similar to the "bump" in the photo.

I'm not at home right now, but if that would be helpful in any way, when i get back i can try to show you an example for comparison.

Edit: also, sorry if this has been resolved, I didnt have a chance to look through the entire thread. Their eyes seem to be a different shape an colour? Just contacts or?

Related to the bump: This seems to be the only picture of Lori that shows it. Looking closely I think it is just two thin peices of hair and a shiny forehead. Since there aren't any real high quality photos of her online we are only left to speculate. Again, one more thing that could be cleared up quickly if we had anyone who had ever met her to refer to. At this point I'd be thrilled if the cashiers from her regular grocery store came forward! That would probably be a treasure chest of info actually... Do we know if there were any Cuban markets near Longview? Or anywhere she regularly shopped?
 
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Didn't Lori own a Honda? Have her vehicle registrations/who she purchased her car from ever been tracked down?

It would be a part of her 1997 bankruptcy filing.


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  • #1,400
Which leads to an interesting scenario. While we've all agreed that the steps for stealing another person's identity was fairly common knowledge back in 1980s, one implication has been overlooked: the county records departments were also aware of that procedure. And it stands to reason that the county clerks would occasionally challenge people who sought birth certificates who seemed suspicious. (e.g., "So Ingrid Berkovitz, why are you requesting the birth certificate of one BST?") And LEK doesn't strike me as someone who could manage to get past this speedbump with a bit of what has been called "social engineering". (e.g, "Oh, this is for my sister-in-law, & I'm picking it up for her as a favor. She's applying for a passport so she can visit Europe next summer.")

What I'm implying from this scenario is either she possessed ID with BST's name on it -- not necessarily the BST who died in a house fire in December 1971, since investigations have uncovered a number of women with the same name -- or had a name on the check close enough to BST that it did not raise any suspicions from the clerk who issued her the bc. Say the name was something like "Becky Smith", so the clerk would assume LEK (or whoever picked up the bc, let's just call her LEK for convenience) was married, & that was why the last names did not match.

Or maybe I'm adding unneeded complexity to this mystery, & about to suffer a cut from Occam's Razor...



Someone suggested it as a possibility because the birth certificate was printed one day (20 May 1988), & paid for on another day (23 May 1988); that poster inferred that LEK ordered the bc one day over the phone, then paid for it the next. But SunnyNZ's research shows that birth certificates could not be ordered over the phone; & a detail I noticed on the receipt strongly suggests that the person who paid for the certificate hadn't driven from, say, LA to Bakersfield that morning to get it.

Which in itself indicates very strongly that the person who obtained the bc spent a few days in the county seat; if LEK had traveled all the way from LA to get it, only to be told she would need to come back for it a few days later, I doubt she'd drive all that way back just to make the same trip three days later. Especially if that person didn't drive, or owned a beater car of questionable reliability.

Now IMHO, this is a bit of required complexity to this mystery. It's not unusual for it to take a business day for a county records office to produce a birth certificate: in days before widespread computerization, it could easily take a complete working day for someone to search thru the county records to find & make a copy of a given birth certificate. And a bit of research shows 20 May 1988 was a Friday & 23 May was a Monday; if I read the bottom of the receipt correctly, the bc was picked up at 7:49 am on Monday. Had LEK driven from, say, LA to Bakersfield to pick it up, according to Google it would take a little under two hours to drive there, & required LEK to leave home no later than 5:45 that morning -- which IMHO, is highly unlikely. (Who would get up so early on a Monday to get a document that will be there all day? Why not wait until at least 7:00 am to leave, & pick it up around 9:00 am? And even if LEK was fitting this around a work schedule, she wouldn't be back in LA until 10 am at the earliest; she'll be missing the entire morning either way.)

However, this timeline indicates that LEK might not have known it would take a business day to process the request, was forced to spend the weekend in Bakersfield, & picked up the bc first thing Monday morning so she could return to wherever home was.

A professional identity broker would know this, & would avoid requesting one on a Friday -- well, unless she/he lived in Bakersfield. (A surprising coincidence!) Someone who had never requested a birth certificate before would likely make that mistake, but if she lived in Bakersfield would likely pick it up at some other time than first thing on a Monday morning. (Showing up first thing on a Monday morning would be remarkable enough that someone might remember it, even decades later, so even a crafty professional broker would avoid doing this.)

However, all of this armchair sleuthing tells us only (1) the birth certificate was obtained by an amateur (& likely LEK), & (2) LEK was not living in Bakersfield, CA in May 1988. While eliminating some possibilities, this information doesn't eliminate enough to really help. But at this point IMHO any help, no matter how small, is something.
Something I'm not sure if I've mentioned before: As somebody who is approximately the same age as "Lori" either was (or tried to pass herself off as being), I would submit that it is very possible that, in 1988, she could have easily presented herself at the Kern County records office in person, presenting an out-of-state ID stating that her name was "Becky Turner". Because many states were in various stages of raisinng the drinking age back to 21 during this time, and because many states had not quite yet gotten past the practice of making simple laminated driver's licenses, she could have easily gotten, say for example, a "Delaware" driver's license, not from an "identity broker", but from some enterprising college kid with access to a laminating machine, a Polaroid camera, and not much else.
 
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