TX - Man punches elderly poll worker after being told to remove MAGA hat - October 27, 2024

[Inthedetails]

A previous Supreme Court ruling Burson v. Freeman 504 U.S. (1992) restricted free speech in a polling place. So federal law protecting free speech does not apply to polling places. You cannot stand up and give a campaign speech in the polling place, for example, even though your speech is protected in other places.

The issue at hand is the apparel ban. The Supreme Court case to which you refer overturned apparel bans in Minnesota, but in Texas and my state of Nevada, as well as others, apparel with political slogans is illegal in the polling area.

As others here have said, it was not legal in Texas and instead of punching a polling place worker, he should sue the state of Texas to overturn the apparel ban.

Or just walk out of the place like a grown-up gentleman with your dignity intact. Put your hat on later.

It's always an option to behave like a decent person, whether you're happy about it or not.

jmo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

So who gets to call it if one wears a red shirt or blue shirt
A red cap vs blue cap
MAGA vs HOPE (or whatever the inspiring word of the week has been announced to be on MSM....

And why does San Antonio end up in here (WS) waaayy too much??

Of course there can be a gray area, but the prohibition is about "electioneering".

So even if everyone knows what wearing a red hat means in terms of political support, I personally doubt if a good case could be made for removing someone from a polling place simply for wearing a specific color.

However, a MAGA hat is referencing a specific candidate's campaign slogan, even without spelling out a name. To me that is clearly electioneering.

Freedom of speech is of course an important right, but it does not apply in every location or situation, as has been mentioned.

 

[Anxala]

As others here have said, it was not legal in Texas and instead of punching a polling place worker, he should sue the state of Texas to overturn the apparel ban.

RSBM

But is someone whose default reaction is to assault a poll worker for doing his job likely to be the type of person who would do that? Who would think like that? Who would care enough about it to try and make positive change?

Because what you're suggesting would require a mindset not remotely typical or likely of this MAGA .

 

[Friday Fan]

Jacque Callenan specifically said, "No talking politics while standing in line". Obviously, she feels that certain behaviors are causing disruptions because I have never heard her say that before. She's our elections admin.
Whatever it is, it does not give anyone the right to punch someone! These are civil statutes, (like parking in the wrong spot). Even if a civil statute is vague, it does not give someone the right to punch someone.

BTW: He has a prior for resisting

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/jesse-lutzenbeger-assault-san-antonio-19868318.php

 

[cenazoic]

based on a Supreme Court ruling, it is over reach by the state to restrict freedom of speech at poling places.

Please actually read the ruling you posted. That is NOT, in fact, what the Court ruled.

Part of Minnesota’s law (that dealing with apparel, specifically) was struck down because the wording in the Minnesota law was not specific enough to make it consistently interpreted and applied. The ruling basically tells Minnesota to tighten up its legislative language if they want to bar political clothing in or near (100 feet) polling places.

And so, it is the current law:

Office of the State Of Minnesota Secretary of State

Office of the State Of Minnesota Secretary of State

www.sos.state.mn.us

 

[DS2021]

Honestly, whether or not the law is constitutional is irrelevant. You cant assault someone for infringing on your constitutional rights

 

[airportwoman]

I was at the library today, and saw a woman crying on the sidewalk. I didn't approach her, but I just know that she was not allowed to vote because she was wearing a "TRUMP 2024" t-shirt. Granted, she probably didn't know that any kind of candidate promotion is not allowed within a certain distance of polls, but the rules are the rules.

That said, I was also there on Monday (I'm a volunteer and help manage a self-service bookstore) and lots of people were coming in to vote. To a person, they were quite pleasant and understanding when we told them it wasn't taking place there on that day, and when and where they could vote.

p.s. I'm in Iowa.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I was at the library today, and saw a woman crying on the sidewalk. I didn't approach her, but I just know that she was not allowed to vote because she was wearing a "TRUMP 2024" t-shirt. Granted, she probably didn't know that any kind of candidate promotion is not allowed within a certain distance of polls, but the rules are the rules.

That said, I was also there on Monday (I'm a volunteer and help manage a self-service bookstore) and lots of people were coming in to vote. To a person, they were quite pleasant and understanding when we told them it wasn't taking place there on that day, and when and where they could vote.

p.s. I'm in Iowa.

It really shouldn't prevent anyone from voting -- she could find a restroom (probably one right there at the polling place) and turn her shirt inside out. Or borrow a sweatshirt to put over it. MOO

 

[kaen]

It really shouldn't prevent anyone from voting -- she could find a restroom (probably one right there at the polling place) and turn her shirt inside out. Or borrow a sweatshirt to put over it. MOO

Absolutely true. So, why the tears? Unfairness? Freedom of speech? Attention-seeking? A belief that one should be able to do whatever they want but others restricted? The whole thing is just ridiculous. Follow the rules. Vote but keep your preferences to yourself when in the polling place. Doesn't seem hard to me.

 

[Cryptic]

It really shouldn't prevent anyone from voting -- she could find a restroom (probably one right there at the polling place) and turn her shirt inside out. Or borrow a sweatshirt to put over it. MOO

Absolutely true. So, why the tears? Unfairness? Freedom of speech? Attention-seeking? A belief that one should be able to do whatever they want but others restricted? The whole thing is just ridiculous. Follow the rules.

Avoiding drama at polls is in everyone's best interest.

I would instruct poll workers that when they need to enforce the "no political messaging" ban, to also suggest some possible alternatives. As you suggested: cover up shirt with a borrowed jacket, turn shirt inside out etc.

I had to come up with the "turn shirt inside out" option on my own. Though there was no drama involved with me being potentially turned away, it would have been helpful had the poll worker suggested it.

And... in fairness to the turned away voter, the law is more than a little obscure. Most people have never heard of it. So, the attention seeking possibility, though possible, might be diminished.

 

[Eridachtlin]

The article states that he was approached after he put his hat back on in the polling place and was being escorted out after doing what he was explicitly asked not to do. And, asked a 2nd time to remove the hat. The people who are working the polls have a duty. He has been charged with a felony. I think LE has taken all the facts into account. JMHO.

My tendency, in any situation, would be to let angry people in the process of leaving continue to leave without accosting them. But, hey, that's just my street smarts talking. I tend not to get beaten up.

 

[Twick]

So who gets to call it if one wears a red shirt or blue shirt
A red cap vs blue cap
MAGA vs HOPE (or whatever the inspiring word of the week has been announced to be on MSM....

And why does San Antonio end up in here (WS) waaayy too much??

The poll workers do,

 

[Inthedetails]

My tendency, in any situation, would be to let angry people in the process of leaving continue to leave without accosting them. But, hey, that's just my street smarts talking. I tend not to get beaten up.

Our voting places of all places need to follow the rules strictly. You'd think that would be something all of us could agree upon without anger and violence in face of being asked to comply (which is not the same as being accosted, quite a loaded word for this situation).

jmopinion

 

[airportwoman]

I won't post a link, because nobody really needs to see the picture, but I saw a story earlier today of a very obese elderly woman voting in her bra because she was asked to remove her pro-Trump t-shirt, and also said something very disgusting to the male security guard.

 

[Cryptic]

The poll workers do,

Yes, but they are probably under general guidance by managers in Austin as to what is acceptable and what is not.

For example, maybe: Colored hats are OK (We all wear blue jeans- right?). But, colors in conjunction with slogans, pictures, or symbols are not.

As a side note, my brother in law works at a VA hospital as a contractor. Election or no elections, employees and contractors are allowed: One standard sized political sticker and one advocacy sticker on their cars. Any more than that, and they cant park their car on government property.

The explanation he was given is that govt. employees cant give the perception they have political biases which could interfere with their treatment of patients. So.... no Trump mo'biles and no Harris busses.