Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #7

[gone500miles]

After watching the Disappeared episode, I was thinking that perhaps he did just decide to walk away. The show kind of nudges you in that direction. My thinking was not that he was less of a great guy to do so or that he loved his family any less. It was along the lines of he had a perfect storm kind of crisis in his life where everything that could go wrong did so, all at once, and from multiple directions. The pension drop, the wife's affairs, and who knows what else that we are not knowledgeable of nor should we be.

But I don't believe that is what happened. If you are going to walk away, you don't need to stage anything. You just walk away. You need money but you don't want cards or even the driver's license. Nothing that can trace back, you take some of the money and you buy a new identity - move on.

The reason for staging the garage as the scene is misdirection - it's a decoy for the real crime scene so that the real one doesn't fall under investigation.

In all the searches for Mr. Chambers, they were looking for his body - not the scene of his murder.

 

[cooksheila]

I believe so. As soon as he was declared dead she received half his pension. I believe the pension pays for any cause of death. If she had left the status as Missing she would receive his whole pension for 7 years. So by declaring him dead she lost half his pension.

I wonder if this was a Freudian slip or she was out thinking herself.

 

[ocgrad]

I had to post this. It was so enlightening to me to understand how the evidence brought forth from a PI can be brought to court to be heard by a judge and jury even when an incompetent or corrupt county sheriff isn't prosecuting.

Wrongful death suit latest turn in EquuSearch founder's quest for daughter's killer

 

[ocgrad]

After watching the Disappeared episode, I was thinking that perhaps he did just decide to walk away. The show kind of nudges you in that direction. My thinking was not that he was less of a great guy to do so or that he loved his family any less. It was along the lines of he had a perfect storm kind of crisis in his life where everything that could go wrong did so, all at once, and from multiple directions. The pension drop, the wife's affairs, and who knows what else that we are not knowledgeable of nor should we be.

But I don't believe that is what happened. If you are going to walk away, you don't need to stage anything. You just walk away. You need money but you don't want cards or even the driver's license. Nothing that can trace back, you take some of the money and you buy a new identity - move on.

The reason for staging the garage as the scene is misdirection - it's a decoy for the real crime scene so that the real one doesn't fall under investigation.

In all the searches for Mr. Chambers, they were looking for his body - not the scene of his murder.

Yes, the blood was misdirection in the same way as the phone pings. It all said, "Search here around the home for him, no search around the bridge. By the time time you're sufficiently sure his body isn't in the lake any evidence at the real crime scene will be lost".

 

[Tripod]

This is a bit out there but I've been thinking about it.

I asked my husband the other day if he has ever thought about just disappearing? He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, no. I have thought about it, not seriously but I can't see how anyone can just disappear.

So that brings me to MC who once told his son in law that it would be easy to just disappear. Which means he'd given it thought but maybe not seriously.

If he were to just disappear, what would he need? Money, his d.l. and his glasses. He would definitely take his glasses. (And the glasses were not found with the billfold and his hat).

Since we don't really know what money he had squirreled away, it's hard to say if there was money missing.

But why "stage" the shop to make it look like he"d been hurt? Would this lend credence to those who believe he was murdered and "buried" somewhere. That would make disappearing easier as investigators wouldn't go too far beyond his home to look for him.

It would have been easy enough to slice his own finger and let it bleed.

I know this doesn't sound all that possible because most believe he would never do that. But why can they think suicide and NOT voluntarily missing? Both are remote possibilities in my mind. But why would others stage the scene in the shop to look like a potential suicide or that he'd been hurt? Why not hurt him away from the scene and take his body and dispose of it then?

That's exactly it, Razz. You might remember that I've never thought the blood in the shop was staged- mostly because I could not come up with a logical reason for it ( even from an evil killer's perspective, whatever that is). His truck was home exactly where he would park it, he was seen leaving WalMart, his phone was tracked going home at that time, the mascara and cold or sinus med taken into the house, etc. etc. If NONE of that were there, except perhaps the truck, how would that have impacted an investigation or opinions? Sure, an investigator could think there might be a crime scene elsewhere, but there'd still be no clues as to where that might be, same as now.
I don't know if I've made much sense, but I'll probably stick to my "no staging" scenario until the end.

 

[Tripod]

I had to post this. It was so enlightening to me to understand how the evidence brought forth from a PI can be brought to court to be heard by a judge and jury even when an incompetent or corrupt county sheriff isn't prosecuting.

Wrongful death suit latest turn in EquuSearch founder's quest for daughter's killer

Thanks so much for posting this, ocgrad.

 

[Tripod]

Yes, the blood was misdirection in the same way as the phone pings. It all said, "Search here around the home for him, no search around the bridge. By the time time you're sufficiently sure his body isn't in the lake any evidence at the real crime scene will be lost".

But if there were no phone pings at all, nor any blood, nor any signs he arrived home from WalMart, what would HCSO have done differently? They would have had even less to work with or consider, and it'd most definitely have been considered a missing persons case, as it still is If there was a crime here, I feel certain it occurred in that garage. You make good points, but I probably can't ever "get" there. As always, I remain willing to eat a healthy serving of crow

 

[Tripod]

I should try to clarify my thinking a little, if I can. Here's one hypothetical:

Let's say that perp X forcefully grabbed MC from his truck somewhere between WalMart and his home, then drove MC to his own home and murdered him there. Perp X then removed MC's body and buried it somewhere. Perp X somehow drove MC's truck back to the Chambers' home and then did a whole bunch of "stuff" to make it look as if MC perhaps had been murdered at his own shop. I'm already at a standstill with this hypothetical because it's too time-consuming and/or risky and complicated. What would there be in this hypothetical that might make LE look at Perp X and his/her home? Ugh, I'm confusing myself now. I haven't addressed the possible elephant in the room, but even doing so doesn't change my thinking.
That phone analysis has a lot to do with it (my thinking), even though it may not be exact and Klein's expert may have a very different take on it. That we don't know.

 

[Razz]

After watching the Disappeared episode, I was thinking that perhaps he did just decide to walk away. The show kind of nudges you in that direction. My thinking was not that he was less of a great guy to do so or that he loved his family any less. It was along the lines of he had a perfect storm kind of crisis in his life where everything that could go wrong did so, all at once, and from multiple directions. The pension drop, the wife's affairs, and who knows what else that we are not knowledgeable of nor should we be.

But I don't believe that is what happened. If you are going to walk away, you don't need to stage anything. You just walk away. You need money but you don't want cards or even the driver's license. Nothing that can trace back, you take some of the money and you buy a new identity - move on.

The reason for staging the garage as the scene is misdirection - it's a decoy for the real crime scene so that the real one doesn't fall under investigation.

In all the searches for Mr. Chambers, they were looking for his body - not the scene of his murder.

I get this but.......

Say he was murdered at a spot near the Takowani (sp) after he left Wal-Mart. It had always been "Queen's" (WS member) theory that MC had been stopped by LE and that's why his d.l. was missing.

If it was someone nefarious who stopped MC, how did they get him to a spot where they and the vehicles were hidden from view while he was murdered.

If I understand correctly, the perps had to bring MC's truck plus his phone and toiletry items back to his home. They had to know that the phone would be analyzed for travel movements.

During the murder, they somehow had to draw blood from MC and transfer it to the shop. Plus, his truck, billfold, (minus the d.l.), and the items he was supposed to pick up. The shop was then staged to make it look like he'd been hurt or killed or there had been an accident.

During this time they had to get rid of the body as well as transfer a fake route from his shop to the bridge at approx. 4 mph.

It appears to me that the perps left themselves wide open for discovery by driving the truck back, staging the shop, getting rid of the body and taking his phone on a trip back to the bridge.
This sounds like a very high risk scenario where everything had to go right.

Certainly there were better ways to murder M.C. without this convoluted plan. A robbery would have been easy and believable and they'd be looking at meth heads right now.

And a reason MC may have staged the scene in the shop is because he needed time to get away before he was discovered ditching Texas.

I suspect MC could be "dumb like a fox." Smiling to himself the whole time.

 

[ocgrad]

I think the risk of being seen driving his truck by some random person who would recognize his specific truck would be less than being seen or heard in his shop assaulting him or moving his bleeding body out. Perhaps taking a route back around through Lone Oak would ensure passing fewer folks and cameras. I'm not sure there was anything special that would make his truck stand out to be recognized until it was in his driveway. And his shop can be entered through more than one door, perhaps they entered toward the back. But even if they entered the front door why would someone be suspicious if they saw someone enter his house or garage with his truck in the driveway? People stop by, David said so. A local woman said she saw a man in a gray and white shirt but either didn't recognize him or notice any more description while going maybe 50+ mph. A little different reaction than seeing him being carried out.
I sort of think that with no visible crime someone could be pretty chill and the whole thing at the house wouldn't take 10 minutes. Then when the blood drops were added the door was locked so it wouldn't be seen and questioned until later that night. Maybe just saying.
And we don't know if they returned to the house right away. I don't think Meeks or Klein has referred to the route back to the house at all or the timeframe. Only that the phone stopped 15 minutes. We can assume it went hack to the house after that but he's never said so and it's interesting because he was discussing the route the phone took that day. Anyway I think for premeditated murder you would want a private location you could control.
As for how to get him to a secure location maybe it was a simple text or call or message, a cry for help, something compelling. Stopped by LE I wouldn't discount and instructed to pull up into the next drive where the ambush was waiting.
In my scenario the only difficult thing is taking a vial of blood. It means adding a person to the crew who could do that, but you're in a secure location and no hurry.

 

[ocgrad]

One other thing I wanted to add, I don't really assume they had to be urgent to bury his body. I mean murder, staging, and disposal or burial need not all happen at once. Again if he was murdered at a secure location, he was taken one place and his phone another so he would not be traced, only what they wanted would be tracked, then his body could have been loaded into an enclosed trailer perhaps, and transported later. No rushed movements to draw attention. Lots of people have backhoes and equipment to work their land so transport to a deer lease, another county, another state might not have been rushed. Maybe later that night.

 

[ocgrad]

I get this but.......

Say he was murdered at a spot near the Takowani (sp) after he left Wal-Mart. It had always been "Queen's" (WS member) theory that MC had been stopped by LE and that's why his d.l. was missing.

If it was someone nefarious who stopped MC, how did they get him to a spot where they and the vehicles were hidden from view while he was murdered.

If I understand correctly, the perps had to bring MC's truck plus his phone and toiletry items back to his home. They had to know that the phone would be analyzed for travel movements.

During the murder, they somehow had to draw blood from MC and transfer it to the shop. Plus, his truck, billfold, (minus the d.l.), and the items he was supposed to pick up. The shop was then staged to make it look like he'd been hurt or killed or there had been an accident.

During this time they had to get rid of the body as well as transfer a fake route from his shop to the bridge at approx. 4 mph.

It appears to me that the perps left themselves wide open for discovery by driving the truck back, staging the shop, getting rid of the body and taking his phone on a trip back to the bridge.
This sounds like a very high risk scenario where everything had to go right.

Certainly there were better ways to murder M.C. without this convoluted plan. A robbery would have been easy and believable and they'd be looking at meth heads right now.

And a reason MC may have staged the scene in the shop is because he needed time to get away before he was discovered ditching Texas.

I suspect MC could be "dumb like a fox." Smiling to himself the whole time.

Yes, I have thought this before, what would have been wrong with that? They would have room to also create misdirection.

 

[TXsleuthing]

I think the risk of being seen driving his truck by some random person who would recognize his specific truck would be less than being seen or heard in his shop assaulting him or moving his bleeding body out. Perhaps taking a route back around through Lone Oak would ensure passing fewer folks and cameras. I'm not sure there was anything special that would make his truck stand out to be recognized until it was in his driveway. And his shop can be entered through more than one door, perhaps they entered toward the back. But even if they entered the front door why would someone be suspicious if they saw someone enter his house or garage with his truck in the driveway? People stop by, David said so. A local woman said she saw a man in a gray and white shirt but either didn't recognize him or notice any more description while going maybe 50+ mph. A little different reaction than seeing him being carried out.
I sort of think that with no visible crime someone could be pretty chill and the whole thing at the house wouldn't take 10 minutes. Then when the blood drops were added the door was locked so it wouldn't be seen and questioned until later that night. Maybe just saying.
And we don't know if they returned to the house right away. I don't think Meeks or Klein has referred to the route back to the house at all or the timeframe. Only that the phone stopped 15 minutes. We can assume it went hack to the house after that but he's never said so and it's interesting because he was discussing the route the phone took that day. Anyway I think for premeditated murder you would want a private location you could control.
As for how to get him to a secure location maybe it was a simple text or call or message, a cry for help, something compelling. Stopped by LE I wouldn't discount and instructed to pull up into the next drive where the ambush was waiting.
In my scenario the only difficult thing is taking a vial of blood. It means adding a person to the crew who could do that, but you're in a secure location and no hurry.

If it was done by LE, once they had him stopped, then they could have arrested him on a bogus charge (outstanding warrant, etc) and taken him anywhere they wanted.

 

[Razz]

Ok. Just bear with me for a bit.

There would have been no need to haul the body out. They would have left him there for BC to "discover".
The perps could have been in the shop by noon and gone by 1:00. That's it. No disposing of the body...no killing him somewhere else, no driving his truck back, no drawing or planting his blood.

One of MC's car buddies thought someone had been waiting for him in the woods and ambushed him when he went into the shop.

How long does anyone suppose MC knew about BC's indiscretions? He had probably known for a while. Does anyone think he would continue to sleep with her?! Yuk!! I'd have been worried about AIDs or STD's.

I'll bet they'd been sleeping apart for a long time. It must have been tough keeping up the appearance of a loving and happy marriage. It may have resembled more of a brother/sister relationship. They both cared about the other but they were no longer in love.

Who's to say he hadn't met a nice lady while on his car trips. They may have struck up a long distance relationship.

I think if BC wanted a divorce, he'd have given it to her and given her half of everything. Or, all of it.

Maybe he started making plans for an escape before she injured herself. I'm sure he felt compelled to help her during this transition. He knew she was going back to work and maybe he made plans a week in advance for this mystery woman to pick him up on the Tawkoni (sp) Bridge the afternoon after BC went back to work.

So, for some misdirection of his own, he staged a crime/accident scene knowing his family would be focused on the shop, never thinking he would have walked away.

I know some family members say that's totally impossible, that he would never just walk away. But I'm sure they didn't think or know his marriage to BC was a sham.

His life seemed to be great. He had a "loving wife", kids that loved him and grandkids that he adored. But actually, it was almost the opposite.
We know about BC and we know about his break with his younger son.

I no longer see suicide (even though
people close to MC do).

I think he may have been biding his time and never letting on what he was really thinking/planning.

I wrote this all out this afternoon and it gave me a different (or another) view.
If nothing else, maybe we can debate and pick apart the merits of another scenario other than murder. ?????

 

[ocgrad]

Ok. Just bear with me for a bit.

There would have been no need to haul the body out. They would have left him there for BC to "discover".
The perps could have been in the shop by noon and gone by 1:00. That's it. No disposing of the body...no killing him somewhere else, no driving his truck back, no drawing or planting his blood.

One of MC's car buddies thought someone had been waiting for him in the woods and ambushed him when he went into the shop.

How long does anyone suppose MC knew about BC's indiscretions? He had probably known for a while. Does anyone think he would continue to sleep with her?! Yuk!! I'd have been worried about AIDs or STD's.

I'll bet they'd been sleeping apart for a long time. It must have been tough keeping up the appearance of a loving and happy marriage. It may have resembled more of a brother/sister relationship. They both cared about the other but they were no longer in love.

Who's to say he hadn't met a nice lady while on his car trips. They may have struck up a long distance relationship.

I think if BC wanted a divorce, he'd have given it to her and given her half of everything. Or, all of it.

Maybe he started making plans for an escape before she injured herself. I'm sure he felt compelled to help her during this transition. He knew she was going back to work and maybe he made plans a week in advance for this mystery woman to pick him up on the Tawkoni (sp) Bridge the afternoon after BC went back to work.

So, for some misdirection of his own, he staged a crime/accident scene knowing his family would be focused on the shop, never thinking he would have walked away.

I know some family members say that's totally impossible, that he would never just walk away. But I'm sure they didn't think or know his marriage to BC was a sham.

His life seemed to be great. He had a "loving wife", kids that loved him and grandkids that he adored. But actually, it was almost the opposite.
We know about BC and we know about his break with his younger son.

I no longer see suicide (even though
people close to MC do).

I think he may have been biding his time and never letting on what he was really thinking/planning.

I wrote this all out this afternoon and it gave me a different (or another) view.
If nothing else, maybe we can debate and pick apart the merits of another scenario other than murder. ?????

If they had murdered him in the shop where anyone could have walked in on them and left his body there the criminal investigation would have been immediate and with most real investigations it would have started with Becca and spread out from there. But with no body there has been almost no criminal investigation. That's got to benefit the killers and co-conspirators.
I think him walking away to another life with someone else has more possibility than suicide. He had already mentioned it would be easy for someone to disappear.
But I just don't think he would leave everything he had worked for with her. Especially knowing her life and what her choices had done to their life together. I think he had it and he wanted a divorce which is why she wanted her SIL there when she came home after that, as a buffer. But I think she didn't want a divorce because she didn't want half the money.

 

[Talullah]

A divorce might’ve meant choosing a boyfriend, and I think she liked things the way they were. She had a sweet set up-well respected husband, connections to people with pull, financial security and boy toys who surely enjoyed what she could offer thanks to her life with MC.
Life for a non-local in a small town is lonely, which she is if she stayed in the area. BC may have boyfriends but with her reputation I imagine things have slowed down.

 

[Tripod]

As Razz said above, I think it's very good to talk about and pick apart every possible scenario and theory here. Sure, we probably get way off the beaten track at times, but I already see a few things that are a bit different popping up in this discussion. Thinking in and out of the box is always a good thing
It has troubled me as to why, if foul play, MC's body wouldn't have been simply left at the shop, but ocgrad's possible explanation fits the bill for that, if the killer/s were truly that clever. Most people know, or should, nowadays that there often is quite a lot of forensic evidence left on a murder victim, too.

I had a thought last year that perhaps one of the reasons BC did what she did re: speeding up the process for a death certificate and will probation was to make an effort to "flush" MC out, if indeed he walked out on his own. Remember, by law she had to place a notice in the local newspaper/s for any and all to see. Since he never has shown up nor made a peep it COULD further point to a suicide, for some people. I can't say that I put a great deal of stock into it, but it is one thought that ran through my head a few times, moreso earlier on before I knew many of the things about BC that are now known.

 

[Talullah]

Nothing I’ve read makes me think BC wants MC found. She’s never shown anything other than indifference-that I know of.

 

[ocgrad]

As Razz said above, I think it's very good to talk about and pick apart every possible scenario and theory here. Sure, we probably get way off the beaten track at times, but I already see a few things that are a bit different popping up in this discussion. Thinking in and out of the box is always a good thing
It has troubled me as to why, if foul play, MC's body wouldn't have been simply left at the shop, but ocgrad's possible explanation fits the bill for that, if the killer/s were truly that clever. Most people know, or should, nowadays that there often is quite a lot of forensic evidence left on a murder victim, too.

I had a thought last year that perhaps one of the reasons BC did what she did re: speeding up the process for a death certificate and will probation was to make an effort to "flush" MC out, if indeed he walked out on his own. Remember, by law she had to place a notice in the local newspaper/s for any and all to see. Since he never has shown up nor made a peep it COULD further point to a suicide, for some people. I can't say that I put a great deal of stock into it, but it is one thought that ran through my head a few times, moreso earlier on before I knew many of the things about BC that are now known.

I agree it is a good thing to take different points of view and discuss.

 

[Razz]

Nothing I’ve read makes me think BC wants MC found. She’s never shown anything other than indifference-that I know of.

Could be she knows he walked out on her. I suspect when MC made a decision, he didn't deviate from it. She knows that better than anyone.