TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[human]

I don't know if anyone but me sees how bigoted and biased this is. If I took out the term 'police' and replaced it with anything else-[ muslims, hispanics, Gypsies etc] --it would be seen as a very unfair rant. You cannot lump ALL of a group together and blame them aLL for the recklessness of one. I cannot say ' Muslims behead people, THEY pick on Christians etc'...because that is racist and untrue.

So how is it OK to say that the police beat homeless people to death? Am I the only one that has a problem with this sweeping generalization? This is the thread about a cop who was out of line, lost his temper and pushed a non-compliant driver too a questionable arrest.

It is not a thread about how cops are beating to death homeless people, or shooting black kids in the back, etc....is it?

I think it displays why people are afraid . Unless one knows LE personally, who knows which LE is a rogue?

 

[human]

Every single one that is murdered on our soil!
Hell he could have sang God Bless America also!

That would be how many?

The ones killed elsewhere don't count?

 

[Elisaa444]

Speaking about this part of the exchange:
(Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?

Bland: I'm in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

**
All I can think about regarding this snippet of the exchange is that let's pretend for a moment what would have occurred if SB actually did step out of her vehicle at that point - I wonder what BE planned to do then? Was he then going to answer her QUESTION? Seriously, what was his response going to be IF she had gotten out of her car after asking him what I consider a valid question? I don't think his plan was to answer her question (as to Why did she have to put out her cig since she was in her vehicle) as he could have done that without her exiting her vehicle.
Also, because it is clear IMO in how he is asking her to put out her cigarette that he kindly asking her to put it out. BE is not saying this is an lawful order. He asks her: "you mind putting out your cigarette please, if you don't mind?" That is not an order. I too would have asked why. Just because BE was politely asking her to put it out does not mean, IMO, that she has to simply comply and not ask questions. IMO, she asked him a simple question. She asked him because he is supposed to be the one with the answers. He is wearing the badge. He could have just explained to her why he is asking. Like I stated earlier IF he had given her an explanation as to why he is asking and treated her like her question mattered (therefore she mattered) we don't know - SB could have then just put it out. We don't know and will never know.

Seems to me his little bitty ego got hurt when she simply asked him a question. In this question she did not curse him. She did not call him names. She asked him a simple question and it is more than clear he did not like to be challenged. Since he is a rookie I suppose he has not yet grasped that the public will "challenge" you (if you call asking questions to a polite request "challenging") and ask you questions as to why this and that is happening or why do I have to do this or that.

Surely, he does not assume everyone he pulls over has to comply with whatever he says (even if he asked nicely) just because he has a badge. IMO, with this approach he is making his work life pretty stressful. BE is the one working that day, he is the one in charge in this situation, he is the one wielding the power therefore it is of my opinion it is his sole responsibility to be the professional one, to be the one to remain calm and in control, to communicate with the public in a respectful way by answering the questions they have especially when the questions are asked in a non-combative manner. The question(s) are being asked to the LEO because the public assumes they have an explanation as to why this or that is being requested. I also believe many people think it is not unreasonable to ask a LEO a reasonable question. IMO, it does NOT mean someone is provoking. Not even in the slightest. Really. I can't ask a question I truly want to know the answer to because I am seen as "provoking?" But BE, the LEO, can ignore my question and then order me out of the car for....??? for asking a question he didn't like ?? I personally would have lost it if I asked a LEO that same question and the LEO ignored it and ordered me to now exit my car. What?!?!? What is going on here?!? I can't ask a question in response to a request (not an order) without being treated in an aggressive manner. I will never understand how anyone thinks this is by any stretch of the imagination "OK." Had BE answered her as to why she needed to put the cig out this entire horrible situation could have gone much differently. Maybe if BE showed her an ounce of respect as a human being and answered her she would have complied and simply put the cig out.
Instead, he chose to be indifferent, aggressive and he chose to escalate an already tense exchange which is not IMO the best way to handle any traffic stop. After he ignored her and ordered her out of the vehicle for "asking a question :facepalm:" things THEN went down hill rapidly and I 1000% understand why SB was angry as she was and I would have been too. If I was ordered out of my car for asking a reasonable question and was told "I'll light you up" I cannot imagine what my reaction would have been but it would not have been good.


Again, I just wish I knew what BE's plan was when he FIRST said:
"Well, you can step out of the car now"
IF she had what was he going to then do?? Lecture her for not immediately responding to his polite request? Lecture her on the dangers of smoking :facepalm:? Lecture her for having the audacity to ask him a question when he is wearing a badge? What was his plan? We will never know. I wish SB would have simply stepped out to see what his plan was at that point. IMO, in his mind, he didn't like that she wasn't just shaking and scared and put out her cig because he is a big, bad police officer. I don't like to admit this but I'll be honest here. Because of situations like this, for years now, my attitude has totally changed when I am pulled over. I am no longer very friendly. I am not rude either. I just refuse to be a woman that has to put on this 'act' because of the big bad police. I don't want them to think that I am scared of them because I am not. If I did something to warrant a ticket then give me the ticket. I refuse to cry and beg for a warning or give a false excuse as to why I did x,y or z. I've only been pulled over for speeding over the past 20 years. When I am pulled over and I am asked "do you know why you're being pulled over?" I say "Probably because I was going too fast. Here is my license, registration and insurance card." I always have it ready to go. The LEO usually looks at me waiting for me to continue to explain why I was speeding. If they ask I'll answer. But if they're waiting on me to tremble and cry they'll be waiting forever. Go run my stuff. Make your decision. Warning or ticket. I'll take care of it and let's be on our way. I have not been treated badly by any LEO but I can speculate as to why and I believe there are many factors - one being the kind of car I drive.
Once when I was pulled over for speeding the LEO went into a conversation with me about how fast my car can go and specs on the engine, etc. My co-worker and good friend at the time was black and when we pulled away she was in serious disbelief of the traffic stop she had just experienced. She said she could not believe her ears. I could.
Rant Over.:shame:

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't know if anyone but me sees how bigoted and biased this is. If I took out the term 'police' and replaced it with anything else-[ muslims, hispanics, Gypsies etc] --it would be seen as a very unfair rant. You cannot lump ALL of a group together and blame them aLL for the recklessness of one. I cannot say ' Muslims behead people, THEY pick on Christians etc'...because that is racist and untrue.

So how is it OK to say that the police beat homeless people to death? Am I the only one that has a problem with this sweeping generalization? This is the thread about a cop who was out of line, lost his temper and pushed a non-compliant driver too a questionable arrest.

It is not a thread about how cops are beating to death homeless people, or shooting black kids in the back, etc....is it?

It's okay to say it because they do (Danziger Bridge, homeless man shot to death by LAPD, officer shot homeless man in Florida, etc.), and it's relevant because that's what happens when cops lose their temper and think they can get away with bad behavior. Unarmed citizens become victims.

 

[human]

Debit card? CC could possibly be used, they would get their $$ first. Wiring the money like Western Union? Many ways maybe even PayPal heck everyone else does that. She spoke with one of four sisters at iirc 1:50pm Saturday.

The onky knowledge is I have is about my nephew who was stoped because he had an unpaid ticket from riding a dirt bike on a trail wihtout a license in another county. It was paid, but the info was not entered.

He was put into a squad and cuffed. He has shoukder isssues from work and asked to have the cuffs dine anither way. They were so vicious but he insisted being a white Former Marine.

His wife had to get a sitter and get cash to pay the bail.

He had to go to the ither county, missing work . They admitted it was not entered into the system.

Oh well. Mr. Big crimmie who did not know he had to have a sticker on his dirt bike and had paid the fine months ago.

And I have more ridiculous stories.

 

[arkansasmimi]

http://www.hcdistrictclerk.com/edocs/public/Search.aspx?Tab=tabCivil

 

[bluesneakers]

Speaking about this part of the exchange:
(Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?

Bland: I'm in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

**
All I can think about regarding this snippet of the exchange is that let's pretend for a moment what would have occurred if SB actually did step out of her vehicle at that point - I wonder what BE planned to do then? Was he then going to answer her QUESTION? Seriously, what was his response going to be IF she had gotten out of her car after asking him what I consider a valid question? I don't think his plan was to answer her question (as to Why did she have to put out her cig since she was in her vehicle) as he could have done that without her exiting her vehicle.
Also, because it is clear IMO in how he is asking her to put out her cigarette that he kindly asking her to put it out. BE is not saying this is an lawful order. He asks her: "you mind putting out your cigarette please, if you don't mind?" That is not an order. I too would have asked why. Just because BE was politely asking her to put it out does not mean, IMO, that she has to simply comply and not ask questions. IMO, she asked him a simple question. She asked him because he is supposed to be the one with the answers. He is wearing the badge. He could have just explained to her why he is asking. Like I stated earlier IF he had given her an explanation as to why he is asking and treated her like her question mattered (therefore she mattered) we don't know - SB could have then just put it out. We don't know and will never know.

Seems to me his little bitty ego got hurt when she simply asked him a question. In this question she did not curse him. She did not call him names. She asked him a simple question and it is more than clear he did not like to be challenged. Since he is a rookie I suppose he has not yet grasped that the public will "challenge" you (if you call asking questions to a polite request "challenging") and ask you questions as to why this and that is happening or why do I have to do this or that.

Surely, he does not assume everyone he pulls over has to comply with whatever he says (even if he asked nicely) just because he has a badge. IMO, with this approach he is making his work life pretty stressful. BE is the one working that day, he is the one in charge in this situation, he is the one wielding the power therefore it is of my opinion it is his sole responsibility to be the professional one, to be the one to remain calm and in control, to communicate with the public in a respectful way by answering the questions they have especially when the questions are asked in a non-combative manner. The question(s) are being asked to the LEO because the public assumes they have an explanation as to why this or that is being requested. I also believe many people think it is not unreasonable to ask a LEO a reasonable question. IMO, it does NOT mean someone is provoking. Not even in the slightest. Really. I can't ask a question I truly want to know the answer to because I am seen as "provoking?" But BE, the LEO, can ignore my question and then order me out of the car for....??? for asking a question he didn't like ?? I personally would have lost it if I asked a LEO that same question and the LEO ignored it and ordered me to now exit my car. What?!?!? What is going on here?!? I can't ask a question in response to a request (not an order) without being treated in an aggressive manner. I will never understand how anyone thinks this is by any stretch of the imagination "OK." Had BE answered her as to why she needed to put the cig out this entire horrible situation could have gone much differently. Maybe if BE showed her an ounce of respect as a human being and answered her she would have complied and simply put the cig out.
Instead, he chose to be indifferent, aggressive and he chose to escalate an already tense exchange which is not IMO the best way to handle any traffic stop. After he ignored her and ordered her out of the vehicle for "asking a question :facepalm:" things THEN went down hill rapidly and I 1000% understand why SB was angry as she was and I would have been too. If I was ordered out of my car for asking a reasonable question and was told "I'll light you up" I cannot imagine what my reaction would have been but it would not have been good.


Again, I just wish I knew what BE's plan was when he FIRST said:
"Well, you can step out of the car now"
IF she had what was he going to then do?? Lecture her for not immediately responding to his polite request? Lecture her on the dangers of smoking :facepalm:? Lecture her for having the audacity to ask him a question when he is wearing a badge? What was his plan? We will never know. I wish SB would have simply stepped out to see what his plan was at that point. IMO, in his mind, he didn't like that she wasn't just shaking and scared and put out her cig because he is a big, bad police officer. I don't like to admit this but I'll be honest here. Because of situations like this, for years now, my attitude has totally changed when I am pulled over. I am no longer very friendly. I am not rude either. I just refuse to be a woman that has to put on this 'act' because of the big bad police. I don't want them to think that I am scared of them because I am not. If I did something to warrant a ticket then give me the ticket. I refuse to cry and beg for a warning or give a false excuse as to why I did x,y or z. I've only been pulled over for speeding over the past 20 years. When I am pulled over and I am asked "do you know why you're being pulled over?" I say "Probably because I was going too fast. Here is my license, registration and insurance card." I always have it ready to go. The LEO usually looks at me waiting for me to continue to explain why I was speeding. If they ask I'll answer. But if they're waiting on me to tremble and cry they'll be waiting forever. Go run my stuff. Make your decision. Warning or ticket. I'll take care of it and let's be on our way. I have not been treated badly by any LEO but I can speculate as to why and I believe there are many factors - one being the kind of car I drive.
Once when I was pulled over for speeding the LEO went into a conversation with me about how fast my car can go and specs on the engine, etc. My co-worker and good friend at the time was black and when we pulled away she was in serious disbelief of the traffic stop she had just experienced. She said she could not believe her ears. I could.
Rant Over.:shame:

Clicking thanks isn't enough when you clearly put so much time and consideration into your rant! Thank you.

 

[Elisaa444]

It can be if it is just done to cop an attitude. Is it really that important to keep your ciggie lit at all times? Is that a civil right that must be protected?

Actually, she ASKED HIM A QUESTION TO HIS POLITE REQUEST. She simply ASKED BE "I'm in my car, Why do I have to put out my cigarette?" He then ignored her and ordered her out of her car.

How is asking a question to a LEO's polite request (NOT a lawful order) "coping an attitude?"

It would be different IF she had said something like "I'm in my car so no I will not put it out." But she did NOT say that nor did she refuse to put it out. Again, she asked him Why???? She was not challenging him to a lawful order. She was asking him a question in regards to a polite request he made of her.
I can't believe asking a question is seen as "coping an attitude." I suppose I'm coppin an attitude all day. I've been pulled over quite a few times over the last 20 years for speeding and I have asked questions to LEO's and I have never had one to ignore my question let alone order me out of my car for asking it.
IMO, asking a question with no cursing - just a simple question asked in a matter of fact tone - is not having an "attitude."
agree to disagree.

 

[katydid23]

Have you?

I actually know a former gang membet,,a Crips. He was a parent when I was teaching. I asked him why gang members kill each other and not kill white people.

He said it was all about asserting power.

I don't remember the name of it, but there is a good program on PBS that interviews the Bloods and the Crips. I recommend it.

I also have a friend who is now dead. He grew up in Watts. He said they would fight with fists just like boys growing up in my middle class white neighborhood. Guns changed everything.

I know way more about the gangs than I ever wanted to know. I worked in South Central LA in a high school and saw it all up very close and personal.

here is from 5 hours ago:


GANG SHOOTINGS SPARK TACTICAL ALERT IN SOUTH LOS ANGELES

Sunday, July 26, 2015 08:34AM
LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Los Angeles police issued a tactical alert Saturday night after multiple gang shootings in South Los Angeles.

http://abc7.com/news/gang-shootings-spark-tactical-alert-in-south-los-angeles-/882182/

The tactical alert area spanned from Vernon Avenue to Manchester Boulevard and Crenshaw Boulevard to Figueroa and San Pedro streets.

Los Angeles police officials from the 77th Division said officers were investigating at least five shootings in the area. The tactical alert was issued as all their resources dealt with the shootings and other divisions were brought in to help answer other calls.

At about 4:10 p.m., at least one person was killed at 81st and Hoover streets. Authorities said a suspect drove up to the victim and shot him multiple times. The suspect in this shooting remained at large, and authorities say this incident was gang related.

 

[katydid23]

I think it displays why people are afraid . Unless one knows LE personally, who knows which LE is a rogue?

Again, replace the term 'police' with something else, like black people, and say the same thing. Is it biased or bigoted? Can I say ' I am afraid, and unless I know one personally I don't know if they are rogue?'

 

[katydid23]

I think it displays why people are afraid . Unless one knows LE personally, who knows which LE is a rogue?

Why am I afraid of Muslims? Unless one knows one personally, who knows which one is a rogue?

See how that^^^^^ might be seen as bigoted????

 

[bluesneakers]

Again, replace the term 'police' with something else, like black people, and say the same thing. Is it biased or bigoted? Can I say ' I am afraid, and unless I know one personally I don't know if they are rogue?'

Is that something you feel the need to say? Does it somehow relate to this case?

 

[bluesneakers]

Why am I afraid of Muslims? Unless one knows one personally, who knows which one is a rogue?

See how that^^^^^ might be seen as bigoted????

What does your fear of Muslims have to do with anything?

 

[katydid23]

It's okay to say it because they do (Danziger Bridge, homeless man shot to death by LAPD, officer shot homeless man in Florida, etc.), and it's relevant because that's what happens when cops lose their temper and think they can get away with bad behavior. Unarmed citizens become victims.

OKAY. So if there is a case of one cop doing it, then ALL cops are added to the mix? So can I say ' Muslims behead people, Muslims pick on Christians so I hate them and they are all horrible people>?'

 

[Elley Mae]

I do wonder, what does anyone here do when you are driving and you see a police car? If the car is ahead do you slow down and not pass? If you see one ahead do you look at your speed? Are you oblivious to them being around you until they do something that gets your attention? curious I am. At what point do you (the ones that watched the video) think Sandra saw the police car?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Speaking about this part of the exchange:
(Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?

Bland: I'm in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

**
All I can think about regarding this snippet of the exchange is that let's pretend for a moment what would have occurred if SB actually did step out of her vehicle at that point - I wonder what BE planned to do then?

Respectfully snipped for space, ... Only answer I know.... we don't know, nor will we ever know, because it didn't happen.
JMHO, next line matters to me in this ...

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?

Bland: I'm in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

Bland: I don’t have to step out of my car.

 

[bluesneakers]

OKAY. So if there is a case of one cop doing it, then ALL cops are added to the mix? So can I say ' Muslims behead people, Muslims pick on Christians so I hate them and they are all horrible people>?'

You asked why police shooting homeless people is part of the discussion here. I did my best to explain.

 

[katydid23]

It's okay to say it because they do (Danziger Bridge, homeless man shot to death by LAPD, officer shot homeless man in Florida, etc.), and it's relevant because that's what happens when cops lose their temper and think they can get away with bad behavior. Unarmed citizens become victims.

I am sorry but I am beside myself with surprise and sadness right now.
It is OKay to say 'because they do.'

So can cops say that because they saw one young black man pull a gun on them, that from that point on the cops can say "It is OKay to say 'because they do.' "

If you can do it, why can't the cops? Why can't they think the black driver from Chicago, who had prior DUI's might have drungs or guns in her car? YOU GUYS are doing the same type of thinking here and are defending it.

It seems very hypocritical to me. Branding all cops with the same brush and defending it like it is fine. But then accusing the cop of doing the same. What is the difference then?

If this cop has seen blacks committing lots of crime, is it OKAY for him to say ALL blacks are going to do that and it is OKAY for him to judge them all the same way? because that is what you all are doing yourselves to the cops.

 

[katydid23]

Is that something you feel the need to say? Does it somehow relate to this case?

Are you really so blind that you cannot see that you are doing the exact same thing against cops? Those are YOUR words. If I replace 'police' with 'Muslims' it sounds very bigoted, right?

 

[arkansasmimi]

I do wonder, what does anyone here do when you are driving and you see a police car? If the car is ahead do you slow down and not pass? If you see one ahead do you look at your speed? Are you oblivious to them being around you until they do something that gets your attention? curious I am. At what point do you (the ones that watched the video) think Sandra saw the police car?

Myself, LOL, I have thought of this often, if the LEO officers get a chuckle when they see all the traffic behind them, or everyone suddenly tapping brakes... knowing they are looking at the speed gauge. Or how many people when they see flashing lights for a second have their heart pounding wondering doing a quick run down ..crap what did I do ... just to have the officer pass on by... Yep I do that :naughty:

I personally think she saw the police car immediately, lol he was right there! Clear as day can see on the dash cam video! Less than a min til he was stopped behind her. JMHO