TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[ninij9]

I will try to explain IzzyB,
I grew up in Corona a suburb of New York. Cops were tough. We had beat cops. We were raised to treat them like dignitaries, yes sir, no sir, please sir. It was our culture. So by my upbringing my ears hear her as challenging the officer, questioning his authority and all for a routine stop that would have had her on Her way had she just swallowed her agenda for a moment. I was raised to respect their dangerous job. Respect there guns, and watch our mouths. And listen to them within reason. Obviously if a cop says something bizarre like take off your shirt no deal, but put out your cigarette, get out of the car, all perfectly reasonable requests on a traffic stop for someone with an extensive history on her record. Sorry if I offend. Jmo.

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[bwt42]

He likes them! Mooommmmm!!!!!

Pickled brussels sprouts are excellent

 

[kimlynn]

My perception of video differs from yours. I was immediately shocked by the tone she took with the officer from go.

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That's fine. We all see things differently. I thought she was polite. She said hello when he approached. She gave him the documents and sounded happy when she told him it was her first day there in answer to his question.
She sounded amused/playful when she said she was waiting for him and that it was his job (thinking she meant that it was his gig as to what to do)
When he asked about irritation she was matter of fact and calm in her answer.
Really she only got defensive when he told her to step out of her car and who can blame her. I think I would be startled as well if LE asked me to step out due to a traffic infraction.
And of course it all went bad during the car struggle. I can't blame her for that either. She probably thought he went crazy and she was alone. IMO

 

[ninij9]

Alas, 'tone' is not enough to justify what happened to Sandra. I may not have understood your post completely, so please forgive me if I have made a mistake.

My gut initial reaction to the video was "oh no, she is purposefully giving him a hard time." First words out of her mouth were loud and she was on the defense. She made the officer repeat every order over and over again. She was very dramatic. Of course these are my perceptions only. For the record I feel as though the officer made just as many mistakes. But he fed off of her lead I thought.

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[Deleted member 39678]

That's fine. We all see things differently. I thought she was polite. She said hello when he approached. She gave him the documents and sounded happy when she told him it was her first day there in answer to his question.
She sounded amused/playful when she said she was waiting for him and that it was his job (thinking she meant that it was his gig as to what to do)
When he asked about irritation she was matter of fact and calm in her answer.
Really she only got defensive when he told her to step out of her car and who can blame her. I think I would be startled as well if LE asked me to step out due to a traffic infraction.
And of course it all went bad during the car struggle. I can't blame her for that either. She probably thought he went crazy and she was alone. IMO

I agree with your post until you get to the struggle part. Sandra should have never struggled with the officer IMO.

She should have instead fought him in court. She probably would have won. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

That's fine. We all see things differently. I thought she was polite. She said hello when he approached. She gave him the documents and sounded happy when she told him it was her first day there in answer to his question.
She sounded amused/playful when she said she was waiting for him and that it was his job (thinking she meant that it was his gig as to what to do)
When he asked about irritation she was matter of fact and calm in her answer.
Really she only got defensive when he told her to step out of her car and who can blame her. I think I would be startled as well if LE asked me to step out due to a traffic infraction.
And of course it all went bad during the car struggle. I can't blame her for that either. She probably thought he went crazy and she was alone. IMO

I agree word for word your assessment of the situation, especially the BIB part. I was preparing to write the same but your post is perfect, imo.

 

[EllieBee]

I will try to explain IzzyB,
I grew up in Corona a suburb of New York. Cops were tough. We had beat cops. We were raised to treat them like dignitaries, yes sir, no sir, please sir. It was our culture. So by my upbringing my ears hear her as challenging the officer, questioning his authority and all for a routine stop that would have had her on Her way had she just swallowed her agenda for a moment. I was raised to respect their dangerous job. Respect there guns, and watch our mouths. And listen to them within reason. Obviously if a cop says something bizarre like take off your shirt no deal, but put out your cigarette, get out of the car, all perfectly reasonable requests on a traffic stop for someone with an extensive history on her record. Sorry if I offend. Jmo.

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Wow. I am sorry for your experience with such obnoxious cops.

I hope that as an adult, you know you don't have to give up your civil rights for ANYONE, even a police officer.

Unfortunately, I think too many people just acquiesce , because they are afraid of police brutality.

That is a shame.

 

[EllieBee]

Pickled brussels sprouts are excellent

Gross! (IMO, only)

Actually, no! They are just NASTY! :lol:

 

[katydid23]

I guess we all do hear things differently. I did not hear playfulness or light amusement when she said 'she was waiting on him...etc...'.... I thought that was passive./aggressive rudeness, not playfulness. And I think if he thought she was being lighthearted and playful, then he would have had a different reaction too. Maybe it is her social media and her very negative views of 'the devil' , meaning LEOS, which prevents me from believing she was being playful and amused at that moment.

 

[ninij9]

Wow. I am sorry for your experience with such obnoxious cops.

I hope that as an adult, you know you don't have to give up your civil rights for ANYONE, even a police officer.

Unfortunately, I think too many people just acquiesce , because they are afraid of police brutality.

That is a shame.

Not obnoxious cops. They were neighborhood hero's, we RESPECTED them. We were polite to them. They helped us when things went wrong. But you NEVER disrespected a cop. My mother would have killed me. The Burroughs were tough, cops were tougher. Now We have lost our respect for these officers yet we still expect them to endanger their lives for us but we can be idiots and jerks if we want because they are public servants. Nah, I prefer the older way. Respect is earned.
And please don't twist my words to mean something they are not. Thank you. I respect you enough not to do that to you.[emoji4]
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[IzzyBlanche]

I will try to explain IzzyB,
I grew up in Corona a suburb of New York. Cops were tough. We had beat cops. We were raised to treat them like dignitaries, yes sir, no sir, please sir. It was our culture. So by my upbringing my ears hear her as challenging the officer, questioning his authority and all for a routine stop that would have had her on Her way had she just swallowed her agenda for a moment. I was raised to respect their dangerous job. Respect there guns, and watch our mouths. And listen to them within reason. Obviously if a cop says something bizarre like take off your shirt no deal, but put out your cigarette, get out of the car, all perfectly reasonable requests on a traffic stop for someone with an extensive history on her record. Sorry if I offend. Jmo.

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I'm not offended at all, in fact I am grateful for your willingness to share your perspective. Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I am trying to have patience here.

Some of what you are talking about is relevant to this situation but please STOP with personal stories about what happened to you.

Stop with the talk of students and teachers. Yes it is important but this thread is about SANDRA BLAND and her case directly.

I am loath to uapprove posts that are well written and can be shown to have some relevance to this case BUT I will if you all don't stop. I cannot let you discuss other areas that are not related directly to Sandra's case. Again, If I do let you steer the conversation in this direction then within 10 minutes this thread is off the rails.

Thank You

Bump Bump

 

[kimlynn]

I agree with your post until you get to the struggle part. Sandra should have never struggled with the officer IMO.

She should have instead fought him in court. She probably would have won. JMO

From what I could see and that was mainly him,he was the one grabbing at her.
Here she has this male stranger barking at her and tussling with her for a traffic incident.
This guy started out friendly and then went to frosty and then outright anger in a matter of seconds.That is scary.
I agree with fighting in court but I think she was scared and didn't know what to do or think.She just reacted and her instinct was to try and protect herself. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Wow. I am sorry for your experience with such obnoxious cops.

I hope that as an adult, you know you don't have to give up your civil rights for ANYONE, even a police officer.

Unfortunately, I think too many people just acquiesce , because they are afraid of police brutality.

That is a shame.

How is it obnoxious to say 'yes sir' and 'no sir' and mind one's mouth during a traffic stop? It is an officer wearing a badge and enforcing the law. Why not show them some respect?

When did she say she gave up any of her civil rights?

 

[human]

I agree with your post until you get to the struggle part. Sandra should have never struggled with the officer IMO.

She should have instead fought him in court. She probably would have won. JMO

She had been stopped before for violations. I did not listen to much of her FB posts, but I Did enjoy them. She seemed very bright and matter of fact.

Does anyone know if she commented on how she was treated in the past?

When the police started with the talk of lighting her up and handcuffing her and pushing her head to the ground, she must have been terrified.

She knew what has happened in the past to others and here was this insane situation over a blinker.

I would have thought I landed in the Twilight Zone.

 

[EllieBee]

I'm just wondering how nobody except the coroner noticed dozens of cuts in various stages of healing on an exposed arm.

Well, those spaghetti strap maxi dresses are notorious for covering one's arms.

Oh.

Wait.

Nevermind.

 

[Confusion]

BBM
I believe this. I believe some of the good guys can get caught up in a situation that ends badly.

I also believe that there is a possibility the way they are being trained to conduct business is leading to more stress on the job. I wonder if they were trained a little differently could it make it a better, more rewarding and less stressful job?

I think they are being trained to expect every person they encounter as hostile and potentially dangerous. They don't need to think that way to be effective. At least in my opinion. This is coming from someone who doesn't know much at all about LE. But I do know their are ways to lower stress levels no matter what your profession.

I think it is at least worth considering.

All of the above is definitely JMO.

I agree that some different or additional training could make a big difference. Always, expect the best but prepare for the worst. Speak respectfully, stand where you wouldn't be an easy target, be alert to anything that seems off, if it does look like there will be problems, request help before it's absolutely necessary, etc.

In addition, nothing to do with your post:

There could be a lot of reasons for the way the officer behaved during this stop, but I don't feel that any of them excuse it.

1. He sees a black person driving a car with Illinois plates and immediately assumes the driver is a Chicago criminal involved in some type of illegal activity. Since it is, at the very least, racial profiling, I feel it's totally wrong to automatically treat the person as if it is a proven fact.

2. He has had so many bad stops that he's burnt out. I think that burnout in any job means it's probably time for a career change, but burnout after a year seems more like you never were suited for the job.

3. He had a very bad day/week/month/etc. Anyone who has a job that involves carrying and being allowed to use a deadly weapon really needs to be able to completely separate work from private life. If you tend to lose control when you're angry/tired/worried/scared/whatever, you really need to be in a job where people's lives don't count on you to be the voice of reason and under control.

4. He felt disrespected and resented it. It happens to everybody, and it can't affect your job performance or you aren't cut out for that line of work.

5. His feelings were hurt because he was trying to be polite & friendly and she didn't respond the way he wanted her to. Same as #4.

6. He thought he was behaving appropriately. He needs at least some retraining, and probably a different job.

Probably a dozen or more other things I skipped, but I think I made my point. I believe that no matter what she said or did (since she didn't threaten or commit any violent acts), his behavior was unjustified. I know there are people who disagree with me about some or all of this, but this is how I see it.

MOO

 

[EllieBee]

She had been stopped before for violations. I did not listen to much of her FB posts, but Indid enjoy them. She seemed very bright and matter of fact.

Does anyone know if she commented on how she was treated in the past?

When the police started with the talk of lighting her up and handcuffing her and pushing her head to the ground, she must have been terrified.

She knew what has happened in the past to others and here was this insane situation over a blinker.

I would have thought I landed in the Twilight Zone.

Nope. Not the Twilight Zone. Just Amurrica.

Breaks my heart. But it is what it is.

 

[RR0004]

That's fine. We all see things differently. I thought she was polite. She said hello when he approached. She gave him the documents and sounded happy when she told him it was her first day there in answer to his question.
She sounded amused/playful when she said she was waiting for him and that it was his job (thinking she meant that it was his gig as to what to do)
When he asked about irritation she was matter of fact and calm in her answer.
Really she only got defensive when he told her to step out of her car and who can blame her. I think I would be startled as well if LE asked me to step out due to a traffic infraction.
And of course it all went bad during the car struggle. I can't blame her for that either. She probably thought he went crazy and she was alone. IMO

Which brings to mind that in my neck of the woods, we're told to stay in the car. At night if stopped, I remember when I was younger being told not to put the window down until an officer verifies that they are actually a police officer (you can place a call to do that if you're still not convinced)...or driving to a well lit area. I realize that this was broad daylight, but being asked to get out of the car for a lane change violation to me is just unheard of...unless I was going to have my car searched...and for that there would have to be good reason, otherwise it would be unlawful. The officer asking her if she's irritated~ come on, who wouldn't be in her situation. She spots a police car and moves over (we're taught that here as well But, oops (obviously the worst mistake of her life), she didn't put on her blinker??! I think she knew what the stop was all about. That part, IMO, she got absolutely right.

 

[EllieBee]

Not obnoxious cops. They were neighborhood hero's, we RESPECTED them. We were polite to them. They helped us when things went wrong. But you NEVER disrespected a cop. My mother would have killed me. The Burroughs were tough, cops were tougher. Now We have lost our respect for these officers yet we still expect them to endanger their lives for us but we can be idiots and jerks if we want because they are public servants. Nah, I prefer the older way. Respect is earned.
And please don't twist my words to mean something they are not. Thank you. I respect you enough not to do that to you.[emoji4]
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I apologize. I read your initial post and thought it a history to be pitied.

Please accept my apology for misunderstanding your post. Often, type is easy to misconstrue because we cannot hear vocal cues nor see expressive cues.

I hope I didn't upset you. Cheers, friend!