TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[human]

I hate drunk drivers. No excuse.

How does one pay fines if they have no money?

 

[human]

If she hadn't fought she wouldn't have had a Felony Assult on a Public Servant charge. But if she had gone to court she most likely could have got it dropped. JMHO. To begin with she only had a Warning...

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

So she could have asked for a Public Defender when she went for Plea/Arraignment.

She asked for an attorney while in the car. How did that work out?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Sadly, I bet when the Bail Bondsman called Mother Friday night, she thought same ole same ole..... That could have been another trigger to why SB was in that low spot. She allegedly had made amends with her Mother week prior now she not bailing her out. She spoke to one of four sister on Saturday after court 1:50pm. I had wondered why she didn't call her Mother..maybe she did and didn't take the call. Sad.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Trooper BE told whoever he was speaking with on cellphone, that when he went back to SB car, that she was still mad, and looking straight ahead, irritated wouldn't look at him

I don't understand why it's that big a deal to him that she's irritated and won't look at him. So what? Surely everyone he pulls over doesn't greet him with a sunny smile. Why was her attitude that big a deal to him? Why not just accept she's irritated, hand her the ticket and be done with her? Why continue to escalate the situation? I would hope his superiors would be asking him some of these questions during their investigation.

 

[arkansasmimi]

She asked for an attorney while in the car. How did that work out?

No, she said she was going to call her attorney, when she was in the car. Not the same.

I believe the attorney afforded to you under Miranda, is at the Plea/Arraignment you have to ask for one and if you qualify a Public Defender is appointed. Maybe they can appoint you one prior not sure on that. I doubt she had an attorney she could call anyway...but she might she had enough legal wranglings in recent past. JMHO

 

[EllieBee]

I have been rolling this around in my head, and I think what has been bugging me about how attitude affects your outcome in dealing with police is this:

If you have broken a law, say like speeding, (which could potentially harm or kill other motorists) but because you are nice to the police you never get ticketed, points on your license or jail time, how is that law being enforced?

It shouldn't matter that you are nice and chummy with the cop that pulls you over. If you broke the law, especially repeatedly, you ought to be subject to the legal consequences.

By the same token, one should not be excessively punished for choosing to remain silent and speak to their attorney. Or ask for what they are under arrest.

I understand that civility begats civility. I am always polite, wherever I go. Even when I have to be assertive. I agree that it helps to be polite even in potentially volatile situations.

But when it comes to the law, police should not give polite law breakers a "pass".

 

[desertmama]

Jayme Fraser ‏@JaymeKFraser Jul 23
Left wrist #SandraBland

Thank you. Definitely not what I had pictured in my head.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Dude! Your life is seriously more exciting than mine!

I was told decades ago that one should always step out of the car when stopped, so that the officer(s) can see one isn't armed. So the next time I was stopped (expired registration sticker on a borrowed car), I turned off the ignition and got out as the officers approached. I ended up facing a female officer almost a foot shorter than I. (I'm 6'3".) And I SAW the flash of fear in her eyes, even though she recovered immediately as I stepped back from her with my open hands clearly visible.

I got to take a drunk test for my stupidity (I wasn't drunk), but even so, I wasn't abused or disrespected. I did learn a lesson about getting out of the car when stopped.

So, yeah, I have to wonder why the cop in question wanted Ms. Bland out of that car...

Was it me???? LOL, I just smiled reading your post, as I can just picture that in my mind.

Sometimes a LEO has a personal preference, and some it just depends on the actual and individualized situation/surroundings...and combination of preference for that type of surrounding.

I do not know if that specific agency had a set policy on officer safety on traffic stops by the side of the road. There are ALWAYS discussions of "experts" as to which is safer - driver side approach or passenger side approach. Different academies teach different approaches...many times why? Personal preferences of the instructors.

My "preference" has always been passenger side. Does that mean I always used it? No, as it could change due to the shoulder (rocks, too narrow, weeds, etc.).

ETA: Duh, I forgot to respond to your question about why he wanted her out of the car. So sorry. It could be a similar situation - at that point, after what has transpired, his preference was to have her out of the car. For whatever reason, he maybe felt safer. Many people question that, but until one really puts themselves in that situation, it's hard to understand. I'm not sticking up for him, please understand. Just trying to voice the experience that in that given situation, that is going downhill, he wanted her out of the car, out of concern for the reaction he was getting from her. He's entitled to ask her. I'm already anticipating some here will disagree with that, and think I'm finding "safety" as his excuse. No...I'm saying that at the time, he may have been asking himself why he's getting such the reaction from her, and doesn't know and would feel better pulling her out (bad choice of my words in this point!). There's a reason why traffic stops are hazardous, and it's because there is much unknown of the person and their items in their vehicle.

And Nova, thank you for not being disrespectful to LEO's. I teach my own kids that. Just as they need to be respectful to all adults. It doesn't normally hurt the situation, and sometimes it does help.

P.S. For other posters asking about "middle of the road" - I don't get hung up on the fact that he wasn't in the actual center/middle of the road, it's a general term to state he was in the road. I don't see that use of his description as a fabrication at all. Now, his part about trying to de-escalate the situation? Ummm, no. Disagree with that

 

[zencompass]

In my opinion everything from the conversation at her car to the discovery of Sandra in the cell needs to be scrutinized.

Sending prayers to Sandra's family and friends who are experiencing incredible sadness in this situation.

 

[human]

It is not really possible to be accurate on internet posts, but what it seems like to me is that some people are self satisfied that Sandra died.

She was 28 years old. That is young. She has done stuff that other posters on here have done or their children or relatives have done. Did they deserve death?

She is not a serial killer or a rapist. I assume she is not a sex abuser. She uses MJ just like William F Buckley the huge conservative did and bragged about.

I neither drink nor used drugs so I am not trying to absolve my own issues. I see a lot of schadenfreude , IMHO

 

[Elley Mae]

Just want to say that her interactions with the police officer and her 3 days in jail are 2 different things to me. As much as some want to say that the cop could/should have deescalated the situation, I say that she could have started off by giving him her license the first time he asked for it, as far as I am concerned it started there, imo. She too could have deescalated the situation as well. I got to say that I knew someone that was in jail and their father bailed him out and told him then that it was the last time and low and behold he ended up in jail again, guess who did not bail him out. If I have read correctly more then one person knew she was in jail and needed 500 to get out, maybe I am mistaken. And I am suppose to feel bad about her? Heck I found out past thursday that my sister died the sunday before.... Don't ask me if I care cause you'll be disappointed. As far as I am concerned she committed suicide, so no I don't feel sorry for people that kill themselves. jmo idk I know, I know I am cold, sorry just the way I am.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Dozens protest outside Katy home of state trooper
By Tina Nazerian Updated 8:20 am, Monday, July 27, 2015

Harris County Sheriff's deputies arrive on horseback before a protest by African-American community leaders calling for the firing and indictment of State Trooper Brian Encinia on Sunday, July 26, 2015, in Katy. The demonstrators gathered at an apartment complex, lined by Harris County deputies on horseback, to protest against the trooper who arrested Sandra Bland.

"We believe that the state of Texas should have indicted this trooper a long time ago for assaulting and violating the civil rights of sister Sandra Bland," he said. "We don't think he's qualified to wear the uniform."
He said earlier in the day that he has been in contact with the Bland family, but would not disclose more details.
DPS officials confirmed Sunday that Encinia remains on administrative duty.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

An apartment complex? With presumably more than one innocent family (in that they had absolutely nothing to do with any of this)? I understand the community's frustration, but this is not the best way to make positive changes.

 

[stmarysmead]

It is not really possible to be accurate on internet posts, but what it seems like to me is that some people are self satisfied that Sandra died.

She was 28 years old. That is young. She has done stuff that other posters on here have done or their children or relatives have done. Did they deserve death?

She is not a serial killer or a rapist. I assume she is not a sex abuser. She uses MJ just like William F Buckley the huge conservative did and bragged about.

I neither drink nor used drugs so I am not trying to absolve my own issues. I see a lot of schadenfreude , IMHO

I haven't read one post that "seems self-satisfied" that this young woman died. Not one.

It is because her death is a tragedy...one that I believe every poster here would wish to have been prevented...that we are analyzing mistakes that were made...by her, by LE, by officials at the jail, etc.

These debates where we choose a side to be an angel and make the other side, a devil...may give some grudging satisfaction to the debaters....but they solve no problems and certainly don't advance empathy or better understanding.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I haven't read one post that "seems self-satisfied" that this young woman died. Not one.

It is because her death is a tragedy...one that I believe every poster here would wish to have been prevented...that we are analyzing mistakes that were made...by her, by LE, by officials at the jail, etc.

These debates where we choose a side to be an angel and make the other side, a devil...may give some grudging satisfaction to the debaters....but they solve no problems and certainly don't advance empathy or better understanding.

I just want to say ... this is really well-written and well-stated.

I'm struggling to remain balanced with this because it brings out strong feelings in me (and I know in many of you), but I think that balance is the only way to get answers and make changes that can prevent another death like this.

If there is a positive in this, it's that Sandra Bland's wish to make the world a better place may just come true after all.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I just want to say ... this is really well-written and well-stated.

I'm struggling to remain balanced with this because it brings out strong feelings in me (and I know in many of you), but I think that balance is the only way to get answers and make changes that can prevent another death like this.

If there is a positive in this, it's that Sandra Bland's wish to make the world a better place may just come true after all.

Yours is also well stated

 

[sonjay]

It is not really possible to be accurate on internet posts, but what it seems like to me is that some people are self satisfied that Sandra died.

She was 28 years old. That is young. She has done stuff that other posters on here have done or their children or relatives have done. Did they deserve death?

She is not a serial killer or a rapist. I assume she is not a sex abuser. She uses MJ just like William F Buckley the huge conservative did and bragged about.

I neither drink nor used drugs so I am not trying to absolve my own issues. I see a lot of schadenfreude , IMHO

She killed herself. No one said she deserved to die. No one doled out death to her as punishment for her behavior during the traffic stop.

It doesn't serve any purpose, and it muddies the issues, to conflate the cause of her death with the behavior of the participants during the traffic stop.

 

[human]

I do not want to look at any quotes , but it is my impression that her death is not mourned, but rather justifications are found for the LE behavior and snarking on her behavior.

I have an FB post that she asked 14 times why she was being arrested. Is that true?

And if LE stopped me and I gave them the required paperwork, I would be a wreck because as much as I try to organize, I put things in a safe order and then cannot remember what the safe place was.

She may have thought she gave him her license as I am sure a thousand things were going through her mind.

Right now, I am not exactly sure where my proof of insurance is in the multiple places in my wallet. I have the cab card in my glove compartment, but in what? With my car manuals? My receipts for car repairs or with my First Aid Kit? What did I decide months ago?

 

[ZOOL]

In my previous post to this thread I listed bullets which are part of a generally accepted timeline. The tenth bullet says:

•During this entire timeline ..., there has been no reason explained to Sandra Bland's 14 requests for why she has been arrested, though Encinia at the onset of their confrontation -- after requesting Bland to extinguish her cigarette -- has said "I am giving you a lawful order, please step out of your car". To which, Bland has replied in many words (paraphrased here): You said I was free to go. I'm in my car. There is no law that says that I must stop smoking. And why am I under arrest?

I believe Justice Ruth Bader Ginzberg's opinion in Rodrigeuz v. United States carries a great deal of weight here in Sandra Bland's arrest. (see also), and I believe --judging from the 40 or 50 pages between my original post and the on-going posts -- that the Ginzberg opinion may help to narrow the current discussion on an issue of whether or not Encinia et al (a) overstepped his authority, and (b) subsequently realized his shaky position, thus falsifying his arrest affidavit and complaint after-the-fact.

 

[Norwegian]

Just read about Ralkina Jones, who was arrested on Friday after arguing with her husband at his work place, found dead in jail over the weekend.

Link:

 

[kimlynn]

Respectfully BBM and I disagree, View attachment 78816

Yes I disagree with BE as well. The picture you posted shows clearly that he wasn't in the middle of the street. All cars were pulled over to the curb.