TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[PrimeSuspect]

She committed a crime far greater then any of those. The only crime in America, that can get you executed with no trial. She disrespected a police officer.

Hear, hear!!

On a personal note, my daughter just passed her driving test!!!:happydance:

 

[human]

If every police officer had to follow those rules they would be backed up beyond belief. To me it isn't reasonable for anyone to call their lawyer at that time. There is plenty of time to call an attorney once she has been arrested. That's what others do so why should she be afforded something different? What difference would it have made if she called then or later? None. The lawyer couldn't stop her from being arrested. He/she would have told her to call him/her back once she was in jail.

LE have had drastic cutbacks and expecting them to call for backup for every stop is just not reasonable imo. The only reason he needed backup in this case is because he had someone out of control and unruly.

Millions of traffic stops go on without a hitch. I don't find Sandra's demeanor reasonable nor so I think it is the norm either, thank goodness. Most who are stopped are civil to LE because they know you get a lot more with honey than with vinegar.

She would have only gotten a warning if she hadn't been so combative, condescending, and attitudinal. What's wrong with putting her cigarette out like he asked her to do even saying 'please.' Why be so adversarial about a darned cigarette? Why be such an a** about such a trivial thing? It isn't like she hadn't been arrested before. And by law he did have a right to ask her to get out of the car. I cant understand her attitude that day. She was making mountains out of nothing. He had to realize something wasn't right about this woman and I think that is why he wanted her out of the car.

She should have been calmly waiting for her ticket and thanking him for giving her a warning ticket since she already owed hefty fines for breaking traffic laws many times before. I would think anyone would be happy with a warning and not get all rude, cussing, and disruptive.

That is why I believe she was stoned on pot when he stopped her. This is not rational behavior. Its actions like Sandra's that leads to an arrest. It truly sounded like she was trying her best to pick a fight with the officer and accusing him falsely. And I do think she kicked him and it certainly goes along with her irate demeanor that day.

She 'said' he drove her head into the ground yet she had no bruises on her head when she was autopsied. There was nothing showing he abused her physically. I think she did a lot of lying that day when she was out of camera view but also knew it would pick up what she said.

For some reason Sandra had a 500 pound chip on her shoulder that day. At first he was very cordial with her and respectful then things changed and the one who became irate first was Sandra.

Like I have said, and will continue to say, I am very sad she took her own life but I don't think it had anything to do with the arrest. She had been arrested and jailed in the past so this wasn't something new to her but what seems to be new is her family/friends weren't getting her out this time.

IMO

She was so stoned but yet knew she was out of camera range?

BE tells her he is going to yank her out and light her up?

No problemo? This is how LE should talk ?

 

[Montjoy]

Its actions like Sandra's that leads to an arrest.

RSBM

And it's actions like Encinia's and the people paid to provide her with safe custody that lead to costly investigations, huge lawsuits, job dismissals, and even more distrust of Law Enforcement officers by the public at large.

All things considered, I really don't understand how people think that her being uncivil to a LEO is more consequential that what he did -- but maybe it's just me...I really find victim blaming to be disgusting and shameful.

 

[EllieBee]

Hear, hear!!

On a personal note, my daughter just passed her driving test!!!:happydance:

Hurray for your daughter! A great day, indeed!

 

[Montjoy]

Who executed her?

rsbm

Who said that she was executed? Certainly not KaaBoom in the post you quoted -- perhaps you should review it.

 

[EllieBee]

She was so stoned but yet knew she was out of camera range?

BE tells her he is going to yank her out and light her up?

No problemo? This is how LE should talk ?

Of course! Beeotches need to learn their places. Shut up and respect mah authoritah!

I think this BE is a bad person, but sadly, not the exception.

 

[Rocco]

rsbm

Who said that she was executed? Certainly not KaaBoom in the post you quoted -- perhaps you should review it.

Perhaps YOU should review it:

"The only crime in America, that can get you executed with no trial."

 

[KaaBoom]

RSBM

And it's actions like Encinia's and the people paid to provide her with safe custody that lead to costly investigations, huge lawsuits, job dismissals, and even more distrust of Law Enforcement officers by the public at large.

All things considered, I really don't understand how people think that her being uncivil to a LEO is more consequential that what he did -- but maybe it's just me...I really find victim blaming to be disgusting and shameful.

Exactly, it was so simple. All he had to do was swallow his pride, say, "Here is your citation. Have a nice day" and walk away. But instead he had to turn it into a federal case, and now a woman is dead and tax payers are out at least a million dollars.

 

[IBsleuthin]

rsbm --

I think that is one question (and one, IMO that has been answered), but I wouldn't call it *the* question. A question that has not been answered and remains very important is whether she was given appropriate custody and monitoring. It does appear that she should have been on suicide watch. Even if homicide is off the table (and I think is is), the jail could be shown to have been negligent, perhaps criminally so. I would not at all be surprised if there is a lawsuit or settlement down the road, and given that the state has called for an investigation already, all indications are that it would be justified.

Underlined by me.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Her death is absolutely 'The' question because it is the foundation for all subsequent actions.

 

[Montjoy]

Underlined by me.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Her death is absolutely 'The' question because it is the foundation for all subsequent actions.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/23/sandra-bland-autopsy-homicide-texas

Add to this that she has a prior and recent history of attempted suicide; she should have been under a suicide watch. What makes you think that this was a homicide?

 

[IBsleuthin]

I believe this traffic stop went horribly wrong at the point bolded:

Bland: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself. [crosstalk] I am getting removed for a failure to signal?

Encinia: Step out or I will remove you. I’m giving you a lawful order.

Get out of the car now or I’m going to remove you.

Bland: And I’m calling my lawyer.

Encinia: I’m going to yank you out of here. (Reaches inside the car.)

Bland: OK, you’re going to yank me out of my car? OK, alright.

Encinia (calling in backup): 2547.

Bland: Let’s do this.

Encinia: Yeah, we’re going to. (Grabs for Bland.)

Bland: Don’t touch me!

Encinia: Get out of the car!

Bland: Don’t touch me. Don't touch me! I’m not under arrest -- you don't have the right to take me out of the car.

Encinia: You are under arrest!

Common sense should have prevailed. BE could have simply said: "OK call your lawyer" and waited for backup. I know the argument could be that SB could have been armed, but that is a judgment call that cops make during traffic stops. Cops stop all types of people everyday. This wasn't a high crime area. She was driving several hundred yards from Prairie View A&M University, which is a historic, as far as I know a quiet, black teacher/agriculture campus.

Oh I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

This traffic stop went really wrong way before that. People need to learn to listen to the tone of someone's voice, watch for pauses and watch the body language WAY before the trouble starts.

When he walks back to the car and says, "OK ma'am" it is actually starting then. Each video may have a different time stamp but the one I'm watching is the full length version and the part I'm talking about starts at 08:50 and she starts explaining why she's irritated.

Her voice is not tight.

By 09:06 the rollercoaster has already begun to climb. Listen to his voice, watch his pauses.

When he asks her to put out her cigarette he stresses, "Pleeeeese". At this point he's being VERY condescending. He knows that he's asking her to do something in a grey area. He's INCITING her at this point and his voice goes up.

Because he's mad.

This man doesn't belong in law enforcement. This man belongs in jail.


There are thousands of qualified men and women out there training for positions in law enforcement and this man's job should be open.

 

[IBsleuthin]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/23/sandra-bland-autopsy-homicide-texas

Add to this that she has a prior and recent history of attempted suicide; she should have been under a suicide watch. What makes you think that this was a homicide?

Well then if I was going to embark on a lengthy and successful career as a serial killer I'd just get a list of people with prior histories of attempted suicide and I'd just SKATE through life unsuspected...because...well as you said here very clearly...she had a prior history.

And that's exactly what they would WANT everyone to think wouldn't they.

Perfect.

"She's nuts, she's crazy, she's suicidal" This all goes right back to the long held belief that anyone with a mental illness in our society really doesn't matter, really doesn't have RIGHTS, really is less than.

Let's just kill them off and NO ONE will look into it because, she had a prior history.

Must be.

 

[katydid23]

It makes me sick that baby rapers get out in 8-12 years, but God forbid you fight back against a grown bully wearing a badge.

Our society is effed up beyond all repair. It makes me weep for our collctive futures as a police state.

If this was a 'police state' there would not have been 53 people shot in gang shooting in Chicago last 4th of July weekend. :cop:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This mentality. I cannot understand it. We're talking about two humans here. Police officers don't just get to capture -- yes, that's the word I'm going to use -- other humans simply for NOT BEING NICE TO THEM.

***

It's not okay to criticize an outspoken woman for speaking out in a world that discourages outspokenness. It's not okay to criticize someone for refusing to bend to the unreasonable and irrational will of a person in power. It's not okay to support the flawed mentality that politeness is so necessary in any given exchange with another human that its absence justifies a weapon to the face. A knee to the back. A head slammed into the ground. Cuffs to the wrists.

Officer Encinia's demand that Bland step out of her car was -- literally -- unwarranted. Bland had simply bothered his fragile ego. She challenged the social hierarchy allowing Encinia to demand politeness from his "subordinates," and she did so within her rights as an American and as a human. And she was arrested for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-datko/sandrabland-provided-an-i_b_7876526.html

 

[IBsleuthin]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/23/sandra-bland-autopsy-homicide-texas

Add to this that she has a prior and recent history of attempted suicide; she should have been under a suicide watch. What makes you think that this was a homicide?

By the way, that article states her autopsy showed she died of hanging.

There we have the IMPLICATION or assumption that she died of hanging by her own hand.

That's all that says.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

But after writing Bland a warning ticket, Encinia didn’t let her go; he ordered her to stop smoking and get out of the car for no good legal reason.

Then, to cover his tracks — an apparent violation of the Rodriguez ruling — Encinia told his supervisor during their radio exchange that his confrontation with Bland happened while “we were in the middle of a traffic stop and the traffic stop was not completed.”

That's bunkum.

The trooper's authority over Bland ended when he wrote her a warning ticket. But he extended that traffic stop — and goaded her into a confrontation that would give him cause to arrest her — because he didn’t like her attitude.

And for that he is morally — and a civil court may find him legally — responsible for what happened to Sandra Bland in that jail cell.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/07/27/sarah-bland-suicide-death-texas-trooper/30705659/

 

[Montjoy]

Well then if I was going to embark on a lengthy and successful career as a serial killer I'd just get a list of people with prior histories of attempted suicide and I'd just SKATE through life unsuspected...because...well as you said here very clearly...she had a prior history.

And that's exactly what they would WANT everyone to think wouldn't they.

Perfect.

"She's nuts, she's crazy, she's suicidal" This all goes right back to the long held belief that anyone with a mental illness in our society really doesn't matter, really doesn't have RIGHTS, really is less than.

Let's just kill them off and NO ONE will look into it because, she had a prior history.

Must be.

This rant is totally unnecessary.

I didn't say that she had a prior history -- *she* said that she had one when she was incarcerated. And as a result, I think she required more care/attention rather than less. So if you're about to suggest that I don't think she has rights or that she matters, then you're dead wrong, and your suggestion is totally groundless and offensive.

Again, I ask you -- what evidence is there that she was murdered? There is a lot of evidence against it.

 

[Montjoy]

By the way, that article states her autopsy showed she died of hanging.

There we have the IMPLICATION or assumption that she died of hanging by her own hand.

That's all that says.

That's not all it said. There were no defensive wounds as well. And she was alone in her cell in a secure facility; the comings and goings of anyone into the cells was captured on camera.

 

[IBsleuthin]

She committed a crime far greater then any of those. The only crime in America, that can get you executed with no trial. She disrespected a police officer.

I can't quite tell if you are being sarcastic here or not. But I think I might agree with you.

 

[IBsleuthin]

If every police officer had to follow those rules they would be backed up beyond belief. To me it isn't reasonable for anyone to call their lawyer at that time. (Actually if you listen to her voice she is afraid at this point. The reason she is telling him this, in my opinion is that she's trying to get him to BACK OFF and this is what she could come up with.) There is plenty of time to call an attorney once she has been arrested. That's what others do so why should she be afforded something different? What difference would it have made if she called then or later? None. The lawyer couldn't stop her from being arrested. (Oh I beg to differ, this 'police officer' would have behaved FAR differently if she would have had someone with clout sitting there road side.) He/she would have told her to call him/her back once she was in jail.

LE have had drastic cutbacks and expecting them to call for backup for every stop is just not reasonable imo. The only reason he needed backup in this case is because he had someone out of control and unruly. (Have you actually watched the full video from start to finish? She was NOT unruly and out of control to begin with. His actions made her that way).

Millions of traffic stops go on without a hitch. I don't find Sandra's demeanor reasonable nor do I think it is the norm behavior either, thank goodness. Most who are stopped are civil to LE because they know you get a lot more with honey than with vinegar. (NOT true where I come from. People here think they can talk back and holler and swear at the officers all the time because here they are told it's their Constitutional right. Talk to a Highway patrol officer sometime and they'll tell you that people are very rude to them.)

She would have only gotten a warning if she hadn't been so combative, condescending, and attitudinal. What's wrong with putting her cigarette out like he asked her to do even saying 'please.'Try listening to his 'Please' next time you watch the video. He's already highly irritated at this point.) Why be so adversarial about a darned cigarette? Why be such an a** about such a trivial thing? It isn't like she hadn't been arrested before. (So then she has no rights, right?) And by law he did have a right to ask her to get out of the car. I cant understand her attitude that day. She was making mountains out of nothing. He had to realize something wasn't right about this woman and I think that is why he wanted her out of the car. (No, he had a problem with the fact that he doesn't like being talked to AT ALL so he was going to make a mountain out of nothing. He was out to get her. Why didnt' HE just hand her the citation and say, "have a nice day?" Because he wasn't done yet.)

She should have been calmly waiting for her ticket and thanking him for giving her a warning ticket since she already owed hefty fines for breaking traffic laws many times before. I would think anyone would be happy with a warning and not get all rude, cussing, and disruptive.

That is why I believe she was stoned on pot when he stopped her. This is not rational behavior. Its actions like Sandra's that leads to an arrest. It truly sounded like she was trying her best to pick a fight with the officer and accusing him falsely. And I do think she kicked him and it certainly goes along with her irate demeanor that day.

She 'said' he drove her head into the ground yet she had no bruises on her head when she was autopsied. There was nothing showing he abused her physically. I think she did a lot of lying that day when she was out of camera view but also knew it would pick up what she said. And so did he.


For some reason Sandra had a 500 pound chip on her shoulder that day. At first he was very cordial with her and respectful then things changed and the one who became irate first was Sandra. (Actually not true at all and it can all be vividly watched in the video. Anyone with basic training in body language can watch that video and see that HE is the aggressor. I don't know this woman from Adam, I'm not related, I have absolutely no reason to stick up for her except she was bullied this day. Aside from the end result of her death, which I simply do not know how that happened, I have a clear video with audio to watch and I know what I see. This whole thing is disgusting.)

Like I have said, and will continue to say, I am very sad she took her own life but I don't think it had anything to do with the arrest. She had been arrested and jailed in the past so this wasn't something new to her but what seems to be new is her family/friends weren't getting her out this time.

IMO

Answers have been highlighted in blue by me due to the length of the original post.