TX Shots fired at a free-speech "draw Muhammad " event in Garland TX

[Trident]

Fwiw, since I know this will never happen, but if religion was removed from every part of the world - it seems to me there would be very little to fight about. Removing religion would not stop all conflicts imo, just many of them.

I have been fortunate enough to have not only traveled much of the world, but spend a lot of time in the many places I have visited. Here is what I have taken away from that -

Everyone adores a new born baby
Everyone loves to sit down to a meal with family, especially if they had the good fortune to marinate/roast something all day - yum!
Everyone mourns the loss of a loved one
Everyone rejoices at a successful crop or business
Everyone likes to walk in the sunshine
Everyone welcomes rain that will grow the crops
Everyone is curious about someone from another part of the world

I have talked to many people along the way - where did you get the outfit you are wearing - it's lovely. What is your life like? What is your family like? What do you like to eat? What do you do for a living? What do you like to do in your spare time?

One of my favorites - a Saudi father who wanted some advice on how to get his children to accept they had to be buckled in their car with the new seatbelt laws in his country - this was while chatting at an ice rink in Dubai no less. Plain old child rearing.

I have seen underweight newborns in a thatched roof hut that would have been in an incubator in the Western world. Young girls weaving carpets all day in extreme heat. People of all ages using an outdoor bathroom - no walls. People scavenging landfill sites for something to sell. Children begging on the street. People shooing them away. Have been on a broken down bus in Johannesburg that raised fears of an intentional incident to attack those on the bus. Enjoyed good food and good company when it turned out that was not the case. Have been 5th or 6th in line for a taxi and been given the right to the next one that arrived. In turn I sent powdered milk and fresh vegetables on the first day of every month to the newborns in the thatched hut, for 2 years. They did well btw.

I don't pretend to have all the answers to the worlds problems - I don't. These are important issues in the world though, imo. Issues where one can join in and rejoice the differences and offer help when and where one can. No religion required. Jmo.

Good post. I believe religion is a terrible thing. A true belief in God is a good thing. When men get together and form a religion, it almost always turns out to be a reflection of someone's, not God's, way of doing things. ALL religions have sinned and come short . . .

 

[i.b.nora]

Someone upthread wrote "Nadir Soofi" different spellings, but a person I knew was Nader (male) There are Sufi moslems, but the name spelling may change. Nadia is female, I believe. This guy was male. JMO

I did not see it upthread, I was only going by how I heard it said once on TV. And, yes, I know Nadia is a female name. But, thanks.

 

[Trident]

I wholeheartedly believe in a citizen's right to free speech. This group's contest is most certainly a protected right.

But I do think it is also prudent to know that when poking a bee hive with a stick, protective gear is a good idea.

I am not saying that it was inevitable, but it was likely. Just because your speech is protected, it doesn't mean you haven't placed yourself in a tenuous position. It sucks, but sadly this is the world we have made.

Normally, if you're smart, you do not poke a bee hive with a stick. If you're smart, you call an exterminator and get rid of it - that is if it's close to your home.

 

[cady]

Per MSNBC Nadir Soofi. JMO

 

[LinasK]

Yep, absolutely. I support the right of people to make unsupported ad hominem attacks. They should not be shot, blown up, beheaded or burned alive for saying what they think. I might wish they would engage in civil discourse by discussing what they actually disagree with, but I support their right to make ad hominem attacks if that's what they prefer.

I condemn anyone who engages in violence against a person or group on the basis of their beliefs or public statements. Even if those committing violence are Islam, or any other religion. It's never, ever justified.

This is one of the posts that should be nominated for post of the day:clap::clap::clap::goodpost:
(...and my disclaimer is that I frequently have diametrically opposing points of view with this poster on other topics and am proud of the label "Liberal". It is not a putdown to me!)

 

[Fifth Avenue]

I am not surprised that there seems to be more readiness in the States to deal with that kind of attacks.

It was quite a similar attack in France when two gunmen slaughtered Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, took hostages and killed jews and nobody was prepared to stop them.
I say well done for State of Texas.

'Americans overwhelmingly support Muhammad cartoonists’ right to offend

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...support-muhammad-cartoonists-right-to-offend/


Sent via Tapatalk

 

[K_Z]

Fwiw, since I know this will never happen, but if religion was removed from every part of the world - it seems to me there would be very little to fight about. Removing religion would not stop all conflicts imo, just many of them.

I have been fortunate enough to have not only traveled much of the world, but spend a lot of time in the many places I have visited. Here is what I have taken away from that -

Everyone adores a new born baby
Everyone loves to sit down to a meal with family, especially if they had the good fortune to marinate/roast something all day - yum!
Everyone mourns the loss of a loved one
Everyone rejoices at a successful crop or business
Everyone likes to walk in the sunshine
Everyone welcomes rain that will grow the crops
Everyone is curious about someone from another part of the world

I have talked to many people along the way - where did you get the outfit you are wearing - it's lovely. What is your life like? What is your family like? What do you like to eat? What do you do for a living? What do you like to do in your spare time?

One of my favorites - a Saudi father who wanted some advice on how to get his children to accept they had to be buckled in their car with the new seatbelt laws in his country - this was while chatting at an ice rink in Dubai no less. Plain old child rearing.

I have seen underweight newborns in a thatched roof hut that would have been in an incubator in the Western world. Young girls weaving carpets all day in extreme heat. People of all ages using an outdoor bathroom - no walls. People scavenging landfill sites for something to sell. Children begging on the street. People shooing them away. Have been on a broken down bus in Johannesburg that raised fears of an intentional incident to attack those on the bus. Enjoyed good food and good company when it turned out that was not the case. Have been 5th or 6th in line for a taxi and been given the right to the next one that arrived. In turn I sent powdered milk and fresh vegetables on the first day of every month to the newborns in the thatched hut, for 2 years. They did well btw.

I don't pretend to have all the answers to the worlds problems - I don't. These are important issues in the world though, imo. Issues where one can join in and rejoice the differences and offer help when and where one can. No religion required. Jmo.

This is an excellent post, Woodland. I have also travelled the world, first as an idealistic young person touring, and then for many years as a female military officer, and now again as a civilian. In the middle east I was quite the curiosity-- will not go into too many stories, but there were as many civilian people who thought all female military members were "comfort women" prostitutes, as there were people who just wanted to make eye contact and be friendly. If people thought I was an ARAMCO wife, or a British Aerospace wife, I was treated very differently than if they discovered I was an American military officer. A few times I had to pull out my "stupid American card" (a laminated apology card carried by military members, apologizing for "inadvertently offending" Islam or the custodian of the two holy mosques, and identifying me as a military member) to wave off the muttawa (religious police) from harassing me or my companions. I've eaten freshly baked flatbread in a dirt poor Shiite village, and watched "devout" Sauid's stripping off their abayas's on the causeway to Bahrain, then seen the same women vomiting in the causeway bathroom a few hours later after drinking too much. I've also helped unload a pick up truck bed full of traffic victims, finding the men on top of the pile, and the women and babies crushed and dying underneath. I've seen a lot, too, more stories than anyone wants to hear. There is good and bad in the world everywhere. And there are no "good" terrorists.

A lot of good has been done in the name of a lot of religions. And a lot of unspeakable evil and horror has also been done in the name of religions. Throughout history.

America may not be perfect, by a long shot. But it's the only place in the world I've seen where every citizen has the right to peaceful freedom of speech-- even if I don't agree with whatever they're saying.

The actions of these 2 men from Phoenix was terrorism, plain and simple. I'm glad they're dead, so they can't ever hurt anyone else.

 

[time]

BBM.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/official-texas-shooting-suspects-ided/story?id=30782088

Sounds like it was not exactly a huge surprise to this father to find out his adult son had become a terrorist. That's just a bit worse, IMO, than "making a bad choice." And yet, the father can only seem to phrase this in terms of how it reflects on his family, and even deferring to his parental grief, I can't agree with that outlook. Elton Simpson was a terrorist-- he just had not done anything "bad enough yet" that he could be stopped. And that's a big frustration that every American should be concerned about, IMO.

I'm glad he wasn't a very good terrorist, and no one else died. Who knows what terror plans he and his roommate were planning next. I don't mourn his death.

Some of that could be cultural or even shock, but I would imagine they might be afraid also of being associated with their son's actions. I don't think we need to be hard on the father at this point, there is no indication he encouraged him in these views

 

[i.b.nora]

Although it may change in the future, Douglas Athas, Mayor of Garland said earlier today that "it is too early to call it a terrorist attack". - heard on TV, earlier today.

 

[Woodland]

This is an excellent post, Woodland. I have also travelled the world, first as an idealistic young person touring, and then for many years as a female military officer, and now again as a civilian. In the middle east I was quite the curiosity-- will not go into too many stories, but there were as many civilian people who thought all female military members were "comfort women" prostitutes, as there were people who just wanted to make eye contact and be friendly. If people thought I was an ARAMCO wife, or a British Aerospace wife, I was treated very differently than if they discovered I was an American military officer. A few times I had to pull out my "stupid American card" (a laminated apology card carried by military members, apologizing for "inadvertently offending" Islam or the custodian of the two holy mosques, and identifying me as a military member) to wave off the muttawa (religious police) from harassing me or my companions. I've eaten freshly baked flatbread in a dirt poor Shiite village, and watched "devout" Sauid's stripping off their abayas's on the causeway to Bahrain, then seen the same women vomiting in the causeway bathroom a few hours later after drinking too much. I've also helped unload a pick up truck bed full of traffic victims, finding the men on top of the pile, and the women and babies crushed and dying underneath. I've seen a lot, too, more stories than anyone wants to hear. There is good and bad in the world everywhere. And there are no "good" terrorists.

A lot of good has been done in the name of a lot of religions. And a lot of unspeakable evil and horror has also been done in the name of religions. Throughout history.

America may not be perfect, by a long shot. But it's the only place in the world I've seen where every citizen has the right to peaceful freedom of speech-- even if I don't agree with whatever they're saying.

The actions of these 2 men from Phoenix was terrorism, plain and simple. I'm glad they're dead, so they can't ever hurt anyone else.

Thank-you K-Z for your informative post - trust others will feel the same.

I get the mistaken Aramco/British Aerospace wife/comfort woman - the American military female is yours in this discussion (although I may have seen you in Dubai stepping off an aircraft carrier if you were ever on one) the devout Saudi's stripping off abayas on the Bahrain causeway - only to drink and become ill and the sad and preventable traffic accidents - but best of all the freshly baked flat bread - wherever it was cooked. Good for you to have been there, done that under whatever circumstances. It's a help to all, imo, to be able to let others know what it is truly like in other parts of the world, sans religion.

Continue to enjoy your right to freedom of speech - I sure do.

And yeah, I'm not mourning the 2 guys in Texas - stupid act with guaranteed consequences, without question. The fighting religion with religion isn't doing it for me as the only response - but that's my opinion. Cheers!

 

[i.b.nora]

Have no idea what to make of this:

An Australian Twitter user reportedly urged Islamic State supporters to attack a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest in Texas days before an attack occurred.
Source: AAP
5 MAY 2015 - 3:28 AM UPDATED 22 MINS AGO

"An Australian Twitter user and supporter of the Islamic State group urged an attack on a Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest in Texas just days before two gunmen attacked the venue and were shot dead by police, it's been reported.

The Melbourne man, known only as "Australi Witness", last week shared a map of the community centre where the event was held while supporting calls for "brothers in Texas" to go there "with your weapons, bombs or with knifes", News Corp reported on Tuesday.”

More...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/05/05/australian-twitter-user-urged-texas-attack

 

[Sonya610]

Although it may change in the future, Douglas Athas, Mayor of Garland said earlier today that "it is too early to call it a terrorist attack". - heard on TV, earlier today.

I can see his point. Terrorism by definition targets random people with the intent of terrorizing the masses for a political end.

In this case all of the intended targets were blasphemers in the mind of the shooters so it wasn't done to randomly terrorize the masses.

 

[Sonya610]

Tweeted yesterday:

#BREAKING Officer yells out at everyone outside in the parking lot: "Get in the f-ing building." @wfaachannel8

 

[i.b.nora]

Some Nadir Soofi info here:

http://heavy.com/news/2015/05/nadir-soofi-photos-pictures-facebook-elton-simpson-phoenix/8/

For Facebook people, this is his:

https://www.facebook.com/nadir.soofi

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Tomorrow there will be high-profile event in NYC - Possible target for islamic loons as American PEN (writers association) honors Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. Hopefully there will be a tight security.

Some 200 writers already bowed out, arguing drawing Muhammed cartoons is nothing but islamophobia and racism.
However many others, including Salman Rushdie - he himself placed under fatwa (license to kill) by Iranian mullahs- defended PEN decision.

He also said execution of the French cartoonist was a hate crime.

https://twitter.com/Sam_BTT/status/594491916433096704

http://www.newsweek.com/salman-rushdie-criticizes-decision-writers-withdraw-pen-literary-gala-325683



Sent via Tapatalk

 

[cady]

JMO Could someone please explain to me this obsessive fear of sharia law in the USA? We have a system of laws that seems to work quite well, and gets tweaked here and there and interpreted by our supreme court. I seriously doubt that no matter how conservative the court is, sharia law is in our future.

 

[effervescent]

I find it horrifying that in the name of asserting Freedom of Speech rights, police officers and others were put in danger and could have paid with their lives. It's horrifying that something like this happened, but it is also horrifying to think that they must have been concerned beforehand that something like this might happen (huge police presence being proof positive of this). I think sometimes people should take into consideration whether asserting their rights may infringe upon the safety of others, such as the police officers who had no choice in the matter, but had to be there to protect and serve. Which they did. God bless them.

 

[Sulamith]

JMO Could someone please explain to me this obsessive fear of sharia law in the USA? We have a system of laws that seems to work quite well, and gets tweaked here and there and interpreted by our supreme court. I seriously doubt that no matter how conservative the court is, sharia law is in our future.

Fear and ignorance is my guess. I remember when Texas had the religion- based Blue Law. Thankfully, it was repealed. Don't run out of toilet tissue on Sunday!

 

[cady]

I agree, effervescent. I bet there were heavily armed "art" patrons there, too. Lotsa guns. Those wannabees were bound to be overwhelmed with gunfire. JMO

 

[sonjay]

JMO Could someone please explain to me this obsessive fear of sharia law in the USA? We have a system of laws that seems to work quite well, and gets tweaked here and there and interpreted by our supreme court. I seriously doubt that no matter how conservative the court is, sharia law is in our future.

1. Who has expressed an obsessive fear of Sharia law in the U.S.?

2. Why are you even bringing that up? This thread is about a couple of terrorists who attempted to kill people because they didn't like their political/religious views.