TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, Midlothian, 18 Apr 2016 #47

[Itsapuzzle]

Can you link? Sometimes the Search box doesn't seem to cooperate with me...Senior Moment, Blonde Moment, COVID Moment, take your pick.

Just saw your post now. Laughing. Thanks TheGardener for sharing the link.

 

[JosieMae]

It finally occured to me why SP behaves in such an unconcerned fashion before committing such a violent crime - this person is a stone-cold sociopath.

 

[SteveS]

It finally occured to me why SP behaves in such an unconcerned fashion before committing such a violent crime - this person is a stone-cold sociopath.

That's a great analysis if perp was there with the pre-determined intention to kill MB.

But there's a different, just-as-feasible, explanation for why perp showed no hurry if they were there to steal -- which would be, they thought no one else would be there until the church offices opened many hours later. Without CG, they had way more than enough time to scout in every room for cash and valuables, and then come bag it up and take it, and never be seen by a soul.

 

[cady]

That's a great analysis if perp was there with the pre-determined intention to kill MB.

But there's a different, just-as-feasible, explanation for why perp showed no hurry if they were there to steal -- which would be, they thought no one else would be there until the church offices opened many hours later. Without CG, they had way more than enough time to scout in every room for cash and valuables, and then come bag it up and take it, and never be seen by a soul.

Possibly. But with no anticipation of anyone showing up, why all the over-the-top defensive get-up? Just for the cameras? JMO

 

[SteveS]

Possibly. But with no anticipation of anyone showing up, why all the over-the-top defensive get-up? Just for the cameras? JMO

Because it hides his identity from the camera, if there is one? Certainly. Among other things it would have addressed. Someone shows up unexpectedly. The police show up. Fingerprints. DNA. I'm sure there are more.

The narrative some have suggested, that "just a burglar" wouldn't care that much if he was seen and caught and sent to jail, makes no sense. Anyone committing ANY illegal acts, wouldn't want people to know who they are, so they won't get caught. What if they were a prior felon? What if they are on probation or parole, where getting caught means they get hit for this crime PLUS get more years for something else? Or at the other extreme, what if getting caught in a petty crime means they lose their valued job - maybe they are law enforcement, or some other occupation that requires public trust or security clearance.

Here they have decided to cover the face, cover the body (so it's hard to tell shapes and so won't leave DNA), cover the hands, and they start with a pretty good chance that if someone (or some cam) sees, they still won't be able to know who it was. In one set of clothes, they do eliminate a lot of things that can get them caught.

 

[cady]

Because it hides his identity from the camera, if there is one? Certainly. Among other things it would have addressed. Someone shows up unexpectedly. The police show up. Fingerprints. DNA. I'm sure there are more.

The narrative some have suggested, that "just a burglar" wouldn't care that much if he was seen and caught and sent to jail, makes no sense. Anyone committing ANY illegal acts, wouldn't want people to know who they are, so they won't get caught. What if they were a prior felon? What if they are on probation or parole, where getting caught means they get hit for this crime PLUS get more years for something else? Or at the other extreme, what if getting caught in a petty crime means they lose their valued job - maybe they are law enforcement, or some other occupation that requires public trust or security clearance.

Here they have decided to cover the face, cover the body (so it's hard to tell shapes and so won't leave DNA), cover the hands, and they start with a pretty good chance that if someone (or some cam) sees, they still won't be able to know who it was. In one set of clothes, they do eliminate a lot of things that can get them caught.

How do you think SP COULD eventually be identified? Mystery to me without a tattletale, if ANY other person knows! JMO

 

[SteveS]

How do you think SP COULD eventually be identified? Mystery to me without a tattletale, if ANY other person knows! JMO

That's a great question. The disguise has certainly done it's job so far, hasn't it? I wish I knew a solution, or someone did.

 

[JosieMae]

That's a great analysis if perp was there with the pre-determined intention to kill MB.

But there's a different, just-as-feasible, explanation for why perp showed no hurry if they were there to steal -- which would be, they thought no one else would be there until the church offices opened many hours later. Without CG, they had way more than enough time to scout in every room for cash and valuables, and then come bag it up and take it, and never be seen by a soul.

Yes, that is another explanation. However, for many reasons I'm convinced this murder was personal, so I base my opinions on that critical premise.

But a strong objection (other than those already mentioned) to the burglary-gone-wrong theory is the heavy rainfall that night. It defies common sense that someone would be out at that time, in that weather, in that elaborate disguise in order to knock over a church.

 

[TheGardener]

It defies common sense that someone would be out at that time, in that weather, in that elaborate disguise in order to knock over a church.

...or show up to hold an exercise class.
A torrential downpour serves a burglar more than it serves a hitman.
A hitman confronted with a specific timetable and knowledge of his target, would certainly suspect the exercise class might well be called off. He's not going to hang out in a church wasting time waiting for nobody. There's always another place and tomorrow.
Torrential rain is, however, great cover for a robbery.

 

[JosieMae]

...or show up to hold an exercise class.
A torrential downpour serves a burglar more than it serves a hitman.
A hitman confronted with a specific timetable and knowledge of his target, would certainly suspect the exercise class might well be called off. He's not going to hang out in a church wasting time waiting for nobody. There's always another place and tomorrow.
Torrential rain is, however, great cover for a robbery.

MB announced on Facebook, hours before, that her class would be held despite the heavy rain. SP knew that she would indeed be there.

 

[cady]

MB announced on Facebook, hours before, that her class would be held despite the heavy rain. SP knew that she would indeed be there.

Yes. And the B&E was not a "robbery". The only "robbery" that took place, was Missy being "robbed" of her life......otherwise known as MURDER.

 

[SteveS]

MB announced on Facebook, hours before, that her class would be held despite the heavy rain. SP knew that she would indeed be there.

Or not. It depends on which Perp we are talking about, because much of what one thinks about "the perp" is determined by why one thinks the perp was there.

The "If he planned to confront/hurt/kill her" Perp would have known she was coming.

The "If he was there to invade/rob the place" Perp would have had no clue, and likely was shocked when she walked in.

 

[cady]

The gender of SP is one of the many unknowns. JMO

 

[JosieMae]

Or not. It depends on which Perp we are talking about, because much of what one thinks about "the perp" is determined by why one thinks the perp was there.

The "If he planned to confront/hurt/kill her" Perp would have known she was coming.

The "If he was there to invade/rob the place" Perp would have had no clue, and likely was shocked when she walked in.

Exactly. We have to pick a lane. And I'm firmly on the premeditated-very-personal-violent-murder side of the road.

And I don't assume this cold-blooded killer is a man.

 

[TheGardener]

Exactly. We have to pick a lane. And I'm firmly on the premeditated-very-personal-violent-murder side of the road.

And I don't assume this cold-blooded killer is a man.

This is why 12 Angry Men is such a great movie.

 

[acehard]

Or not. It depends on which Perp we are talking about, because much of what one thinks about "the perp" is determined by why one thinks the perp was there.

The "If he planned to confront/hurt/kill her" Perp would have known she was coming.

The "If he was there to invade/rob the place" Perp would have had no clue, and likely was shocked when she walked in.

Agree with this. If it was a hitman, what if she's late or the students came early? All that setup gone to waste or shoot everyone up? IMO

 

[SteveS]

Agree with this. If it was a hitman, what if she's late or the students came early? All that setup gone to waste or shoot everyone up? IMO

I see both possibilities - MB was in wrong place wrong time, or MB was targeted - as equally possible so far, and like to hear ideas that offer ideas from either perspective (although I do push back when wording makes assumptions that sound like a statement of fact).

I'm still waiting for something that forces us away from assumptions, and provides some fact, as to whether the target was the church (ie a burglary), or whether it was MB. But so far, I don't think there is any fact like that.

The one thing that makes me lean slightly to the burglary side is to just observe the recorded actions of the perp in the church, and what it looks like. By objective appearance, they aren't the actions of someone who is waiting for a victim to arrive, and trying to be prepared for that entrance. Instead, it looks like he is going through the church room by room looking for something to steal. In addition, his attention appears to be on wherever he happens to be as he wanders the halls; it doesn't look like he has urgency and is trying to be in position for where and by whatever time MB might arrive (in just a few minutes). It looks like perp has a much longer "clock" (ie, needs to leave before church staff arrives at 8 or 9 or whatever time they would usually arrive) instead of just a few minutes (when MB would be arriving). There are no assumptions with those ideas, just observations.

[Note - I often use "he" and the like, but don't assume it's a male. I do it because it's just less cumbersome wording, and also because I think it was the proper grammatical form, to use the male pronouns to speak of a person of unknown gender, from when I was in school.]

On the other hand, those observations don't prove the church was the target, and certainly can't rule out that the perp was there to target MB. If MB was targeted, we can create a narrative that explains what we see in perp's actions in terms of MB being the target.

But if we lay aside all assumptions, and just observe, that's my one observation that at face value offers a possible hint. Maybe.

 

[JosieMae]

There are no assumptions with those ideas, just observations.

RSBM. I appreciate your thoughts.

Yet ... even here, you are making assumptions. You are assuming that this person behaves normally, i.e. has feelings that most of us humans have, like anxiety while awaiting your victim's arrival.

But not all people are capable of these types of feelings. Those very feelings that, in fact, make us human - empathy, guilt, remorse, shame.

I really believe we are watching the actions of a psychopath.

All of it is MOO.

 

[SteveS]

RSBM. I appreciate your thoughts.

Yet ... even here, you are making assumptions. You are assuming that this person behaves normally, i.e. has feelings that most of us humans have, like anxiety while awaiting your victim's arrival.

But not all people are capable of these types of feelings. Those very feelings that, in fact, make us human - empathy, guilt, remorse, shame.

I really believe we are watching the actions of a psychopath.

Yes and no. Technically, we have to assume something, yeah that's true - but that's not really helpful, because it reduces ALL observation to an endless set of assumptions (I assume perp's a human. I assume he can tell time. I assume he can tell that the building is a rectangle. I assume he knows that you open an unlocked door by turning a handle. I assume he realizes time is passing. And on and on.), that will take forever to list and be almost entirely meaningless when we do.

So we start by accepting "norms of behavior/comprehension" as the standard by which we observe and evaluate what we see. That's the closest we can come to an assumption-less approach. What would a burglar most likely do, and what would an attacker most likely do. To the extent that we can objectively figure what those should look like, maybe we can see if what we see here looks like either of those expectations.

OTOH "psychopath" is very far from being a norm. It's an extreme mindset and quite uncommon. If we assume the unlikely idea that perp is a psychopath, we've imposed our own (and unlikely) bias before letting our observations begin speak at all.

 

[JosieMae]

OTOH "psychopath" is very far from being a norm. It's an extreme mindset and quite uncommon. If we assume the unlikely idea that perp is a psychopath, we've imposed our own (and unlikely) bias before letting our observations begin speak at all.

Psychopathology is more common than you might think. Research puts the incidence at about 1% in the U.S. *

Have you met 100 people? One of them is likely a psychopath.

I live near a stadium that holds 86,000 people. That means, on any given fall weekend, 860 psychopaths are watching a football game.

But, importantly, if you look at the frequency among criminals, the number skyrockets to 15 - 25%.

*Neumann, Craig S.; Hare, Robert D. (2008). "Psychopathic traits in a large community sample: Links to violence, alcohol use, and intelligence" (PDF). Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 76