TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #30

[arkansasmimi]

NIN, so glad you posted this photo. There are so many things to observe. A very raw inaccurate guess would be that each door is at least 3' wide and glass to either side is at least 3' wide = 3' X 4 = 12 feet width. That round design on the floor would then be about 6' diameter, so the entry depth would be no less than that 6 feet. Total space 12' X 6' meaning only that it is quite a bit of space, enough for a struggle/murder. In the right side, that looks like a wheelchair, too, perhaps folded sideways. Also on the right side is a bit of wall. Mimi(?) told us before that there had been a remodel of the porte cochere vestibule, perhaps that wall is structural and needed to remain. Anyway, that wall could also provide cover for the SP to hide/surprise MB: SP standing in the absolute right bottom corner (of our photo view) behind wall as MB walks from the main hallway right through that propped door into the vestibule, and no one in the covered awning/parking lot to see the action.

Respectfully BBM, I stated this because you can visually see the difference from iirc 2012 VBS photos and the current day photos of the windows around this entrance. JMHO

 

[Cannonball3804]

'Laying in wait' is synonymous with the term "ambush" (a term LE did use) - both of which were thoroughly dissected in a previous thread, of course, lol.

In this Wikipedia piece, you can see the difference delineated between safety glass (which does not produce dangerous shards when broken) and regular glass, which does. Take it or leave it, when a glass discussion is having to be specific and descriptive (concerning lethality), the choice of word matters. IMHO.



And you are correct, as I posted earlier - the SW doesn't refer to 'shards' of glass. My guess is it's because "broken glass" was a better descriptor.

I don't believe that LE ever used the term "ambush". If they did, please point me to the reference. Since the murder was not caught on camera, and they could only describe that MB entered the building and proceeded toward the suspect's location, I don't see how they could possibly describe it as an ambush with any certainty.

Respectfully regarding shard, Wikipedia is not the dictionary. The dictionary provides synonyms such as:
fragment, sliver, splinter, shiver, chip, piece, bit, particle
"a shard of glass in her heel"

And note the example - pretty sure a shard of glass in your heel is not going to be lethal. So I think it's perfectly fine for anyone to use the term "shard" in either a sharp or non-sharp sense, and this is backed up by dictionary definitions.

And finally, to correct arkansasmimi who said that I had used the term "shard" in a previous discussion. Actually, after searching, I never used that term myself. But I have no problem with using it or seeing others use it in either a lethal or non-lethal sense. There was broken glass that morning near or around MB. That's all we know about that.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just a few questions about the inner SW vestibule doors.

I don't think the SP propped it open. If you watch the PD film Quote #4 by Camerabug, the door was already propped open when SP appears to make his 1st pass around the building.

There appears to be only 1 door.

In Nin"s quote #20 the picture is confusing. If it is taken from inside the SW vestibule looking out to the main hallway, the door opens into the vestibule. In the other photos, it opens out to the main hall. See Sandy's #7 for still shot of vestibule door.

Am I looking at this right? And why only one door and not 2?







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ETA: Respectfully BBM, this is a very edited video that was release to show the gait and mannerizm of the Suspect only. We have no idea when any portion of the video is as in Real Time. Only the portion where the Suspect walks to the door and opens in across from Holy Grounds. That is in the first video released the 7 sec video, with time stamp still in. All others have been taken out. * thus the zoom and other weird stuff in the video. JMHO WE as in Public have no way of knowing what time it was when that portion of video with door open is, as in real time or sequence of video they have
SW on exit doors to the Covered Awning open IN < when Tarrant County Reconstruction Unit went out, from MSM news clip I SS.

SW entrance door to the Covered Awning also open OUT * shown in this that I circled the exterior camera for another post *

The photo here was from news video when the Reconstruction Unit from Tarrant County went to Creekside Church of Christ.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Deleted

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Thanks! I was thinking that was where perp entered (by kitchen area).

I'm fairly certain, from what I've seen of the building, that you're looking at the hallway that runs on the N side of the building. I'd guess what we're seeing in that portion of video is the perp, shortly after having breached the kitchen door and having exited the kitchen, going east down the hall to explore a ways, then turning back around and going back towards the main hallway that runs down the W side of the building.

At the bottom L of the pic itself might be a keypad that has to do with access and exit through the doors behind the cam (which would be the doors at the NE corner of the church)..

 

[arkansasmimi]

I understand and agree with you the importance of keeping the facts straight. It's definitely been challenging for me at times to remember what's factual and what's speculation/talk. However, what's the difference between shards of glass and broken glass? IMO shards is an adjective used to describe broken glass, so it's the same thing. Please correct if I'm wrong.

JMHO, but in last thread, (there was conversation and I have even pondered it myself long ways back but no longer think it) the whole shards of glass convo and tempered glass... was glass broken and that used to possibly caused the puncture wounds (paraphrasing, but was mid way thru last thread) Again, I just trying to keep the wording as we are told from MPD directly (through MSM with back up being the actual documents or Press Conf) I do not trust MSM

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I agree. But we have not heard anything different to change that that. That was April 18, today is June 26. All we have is what MPD and MSM have reported JMHO The later report of no video recording of Suspect after the murder, came from iPhone/iPad SW

SW16-060 MB iPhone & iPad for Forensic Extraction
4/19 Affidavit
4/19 Warrant
4/20 Warrant return
4/28 Notarized
5/3 Filed with Clerk & made public.

Press Conf April 22 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...eline-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=12519658#post12519658 - nothing changing the area that I heard do you have a link saying they no longer believe Suspect went out that metal door? Thanks in advance.

To the best of my recollection, I've never heard them say SP left "by way of the metal door," nor heard them change their mind to say he did not.

The only thing I've heard is those two conflicting statements, the earlier one saying at Presser #1's Q & A that her killer "presumably" went out 'the same way he came in' (though they also admitted they had no evidence of that) - and a second statement later saying that SP was "not seen" on video after the attack. That second one was more definitive, IMO...whereas the first was somewhat akin to Spann throwing his hands up in the air in response to a reporter's specific question. IMHO. He simply did not know the answer at that time.

So, JMO, but I'm taking the second statement as the updated and more specific answer as to what happened after the attack. SP vanished, and they (still) don't know for sure by which exit.

These two LE statements are buried in multiple places in the media thread, though I don't have the wherewithal to dig them up again at the moment. Anybody patiently plowing through all the posts in these 30 threads will find them familiar, however. It's a discrepancy which has been discussed before, though without solid resolution as to meaning, so JMO, again, on how to reconcile them.

 

[Seriously?]

I've wondered if the killer(s) broke outside windows and damaged doors much earlier, left in the Altima and waited at SWFA to make sure the church did not have an alarm. Breaking the glass could trigger alarm sensors - doors on different sensors, so both were damaged. If the killer(s) did not take this step, it narrows the field to someone who knew without a doubt that church had no working alarm. I remember posters talking about no alarm permit recorded, so maybe that's that. But I'd think confirming no monitored alarm system would be important, especially considering the time spent in that building.

 

[Razz]

ETA: Respectfully BBM, this is a very edited video that was release to show the gait and mannerizm of the Suspect only. We have no idea when any portion of the video is as in Real Time. Only the portion where the Suspect walks to the door and opens in across from Holy Grounds. That is in the first video released the 7 sec video, with time stamp still in. All others have been taken out. * thus the zoom and other weird stuff in the video. JMHO WE as in Public have no way of knowing what time it was when that portion of video with door open is, as in real time or sequence of video they have
SW on exit doors to the Covered Awning open IN View attachment 97353 View attachment 97354 < when Tarrant County Reconstruction Unit went out, from MSM news clip I SS.

SW entrance door to the Covered Awning also open OUT * shoView attachment 97355wn in this that I circled the exterior camera for another post *

The photo here was from news video when the Reconstruction Unit from Tarrant County went to Creekside Church of Christ.

Ok. Thanks Arkansasmimi. I use my phone for everything and maybe that's why I am seeing the inner vestibule door opening out onto the main hallway instead of going in toward the covered awning.

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[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
Respectfully BBM

1) Only place I have seen "shards of glass" is here at WS, where Cannonball and others were speaking of those words. Not from MPD or SW.

Snipped. I don't understand the distinction you're making between "shards of glass" and "broken glass"? They are the same thing. A shard just means a fragment or piece.


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Correct they are. That was my point the distinction between what was stated. This was a post by a Verified Attorney, who also stated

"I take everything that LE says very literally, and don't assume what they do not say is true" http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-30&p=12660327#post12660327

My point was that is is not what was stated, and if someone who is just reading and sees this comment and from a Verified Attorney, they may tend to take that as factual statement. Its not, as that not what MPD stated. Not meaning anything towards anyone snarky, again just trying to keep it as factual as possible. So many opinions have been stated as facts through out these threads. JMHO This goes toward the convo about possible where puncture wounds came from...

Quote Originally Posted by cfreyja23 View Post
I agree with your theory, but have two questions and would like the input of others. It was reported that she was found with shards of glass around her. Where in the vestibule would the glass come from? The doors?
Also, do you think Missy would have reacted strangely to seeing the inner doors propped open? I take everything that LE says very literally, and don't assume what they do not say is true. So they said they don't have video of the attack, but I wonder if they have video of Missy acting strangely before she encounters SP? If I were approaching some doors that are never open and they were propped open, I would probably look noticeably concerne

 

[arkansasmimi]

Ok. Thanks Arkansasmimi. I use my phone for everything and maybe that's why I am seeing the inner vestibule door opening out onto the main hallway instead of going in toward the covered awning.

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LOL Bottom line, no matter if going in or out, door comes toward the individual (think gotta pull door open whether leaving or entering)

 

[arkansasmimi]

I've wondered if the killer(s) broke outside windows and damaged doors much earlier, left in the Altima and waited at SWFA to make sure the church did not have an alarm. Breaking the glass could trigger alarm sensors - doors on different sensors, so both were damaged. If the killer(s) did not take this step, it narrows the field to someone who knew without a doubt that church had no working alarm. I remember posters talking about no alarm permit recorded, so maybe that's that. But I'd think confirming no monitored alarm system would be important, especially considering the time spent in that building.

I thought that about the broken NE door for a long time. After realizing last night that the REAR Doors (NE and SE for that matter) are the very same doors as the exterior one at the Covered Awning exterior entrance.. Suspect may have broken the windows but unable to get the door push alarm to open the door or the area was narrow for person to bend over and climb in that door, JMHO so the Suspect goes and beats the Metal door up and enters that way. JMHO

 

[Deleted member 172065]

PD said that the perp was seen (after the murder) walking down a hallway and the PD PRESUMED he was leaving the same way he came in. Since there's no camera by the door he breached, it's an assumption on their part. JMO

To the best of my recollection, I've never heard them say SP left "by way of the metal door," nor heard them change their mind to say he did not.

The only thing I've heard is those two conflicting statements, the earlier one saying at Presser #1's Q & A that her killer "presumably" went out 'the same way he came in' (though they also admitted they had no evidence of that) - and a second statement later saying that SP was "not seen" on video after the attack. That second one was more definitive, IMO...whereas the first was somewhat akin to Spann throwing his hands up in the air in response to a reporter's specific question. IMHO. He simply did not know the answer at that time.

So, JMO, but I'm taking the second statement as the updated and more specific answer as to what happened after the attack. SP vanished, and they (still) don't know for sure by which exit.

These two LE statements are buried in multiple places in the media thread, though I don't have the wherewithal to dig them up again at the moment. Anybody patiently plowing through all the posts in these 30 threads will find them familiar, however. It's a discrepancy which has been discussed before, though without solid resolution as to meaning, so JMO, again, on how to reconcile them.

 

[Razz]

LOL Bottom line, no matter if going in or out, door comes toward the individual (think gotta pull door open whether leaving or entering)

Hmmm...well that just confuses me more. I thought that exit doors had to be pushed out (from inside) so it's easier to escape to the outside should there be a fire.

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[arkansasmimi]

Now here is a project for someone. This is the type of lock on the NE (rear busted double doors) AND the Entry doors SW Covered Awning doors. Maybe if someone can figure out something about the mechanism of them, it may give use a little more info on the doors . Maybe not but anywho. Here is best zoom I could get while back JMHO, I can see it maybe unlocking the panic bars but not the doors from the outside to get in. ** So another thought/possibility. IF it did unlock the panic bars for all doors? then true the Suspect could have just walked out any other door. But since the way the Captain spoke, I thinking maybe it didn't unlock all the doors? Hope I explained my thought correct. If I understood from prior when we had a member who is an EMT said they have to be locked and unlocked. Anyone want to tackle the lock lol

 

[dizzychick]

She is high school age, though as a minor, she is off limits for discussion.

For what it's worth, I also think it's a male teenager.

WOW if this crime is solved and it turns out to be some ticked off kid mad he couldnt get his dream girl due to the mom not allowing it or whatever I will feel really bad for all my thoughts and posts to the contrary

 

[SteveS]

I use my phone for everything and maybe that's why I am seeing the inner vestibule door opening out onto the main hallway instead of going in toward the covered awning.

There are at least 7 doorways into the building (Main, NW, SW, NE, SE, kitchen, equipment). 5 of those also have a 2nd level of doorway, forming what has been termed a "vestibule" area. All 12 of those sets of doors open towards the exterior of the building, and if you are exiting it is push-push (or, in 2 of them, perhaps just one push). None of those 12 have a door that swings toward the interior to require a pull in order to exit. There are push bars on some of those 12, and maybe on all.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Hmmm...well that just confuses me more. I thought that exit doors had to be pushed out (from inside) so it's easier to escape to the outside should there be a fire.

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Lawd let me go look again lol I may have it backward on final post. I first thought that exit open out as did the entrance but got side tracked. YOUR way I do believe is the Correct as my orig thinking. I will relook AND get Mod to delete my prev to keep confusion down. Thanks Razz!

ETA: DOORS EXIT TO COVERED AWNING OPEN OUTWARDS OPEN OUT AS IN DOOR PUSHES OUT TOWARDS THE OUTSIDE NOT INTO THE HALLWAY OF INTERIOR

 

[arkansasmimi]

Ok. Thanks Arkansasmimi. I use my phone for everything and maybe that's why I am seeing the inner vestibule door opening out onto the main hallway instead of going in toward the covered awning.

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I self alerted so that the Mods can get that deleted Thank Razz! I got turned around

 

[TSA2016]

Southwest Firearms sporting goods store is the store a half mile down the highway from CofC. The store where the Nissan was parked for a few minutes. SWFA had a youtube channel with several videos taken from their surveillance cameras. It showed how their cameras were so powerful they could video customers counting money in their vehicles, shoplifting, etc. LE even used their videos to see if they could spot the perp shopping there in the days before the murder. The videos were quite remarkable and led to much discussion on previous threads. But for some reason, they've taken their videos down. The timing and reason is curious.

ETA: I found them! The addy I had bookmarked changed I guess. Also the SWFA facebook youtube link is broken and their store video link is empty, so recent changes have been made. Here they are for reference purposes

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqkY7BmnIEkrSAlxXTiaLig/videos

Watched. The cameras are very clear. This leads me to believe they have license plate info on the Altima.