Found Deceased TX - Tiffany Kelly, 33, Euless, 18 November 2014

  • #81
Thanks OkieGranny, that helps immensely. I could not get the google images of the area nearby the address of find to load. Your pic above would seem to be the most likely location for the body based on what little we know. So runoff from lake during heavy rains or high lake water levels. Makes sense as the trail and surrounding roads would not be at risk of washout of flooding if water has somewhere to go. So now I am back to her possibly having been dumped in the lake originally, possibly quite easily from Webb Chapel or another road which travels over the lake.

Under that premise, I am doing some reading on submerged bodies and what factors affect their eventual rising, either partially or completely, because if she was tossed (or jumped) from a roadway directly into water, submerged and then I think it's possible that as she began to surface she became washed into the drainage pipe. Anyway, I wish I had found this information when following the Dermond couple murders.

How long this takes depends on the depth and temperature of the water, the amount of sunlight the corpse receives, and whether it is lying under a ledge or a bridge.

Whether the body is lying on the north or south side of a waterway can also affect the time it takes to rise, because heating of the water varies on each bank.


Obviously, the body can take longer to rise if it is underneath something like a tree, or is caught by an underwater obstruction. I once studied a body that had risen to the surface with part of a brick wall tied to it by ropes around the chest. There were five bricks covered with mortar on each side of the body and still it floated.


What's more, if a body is trapped by, say, its leg, the gases will keep forming until it is buoyant enough to detach itself from the trapped leg and rise up.


Bodies can also be washed into the side of a river and remain undiscovered, below an overhanging tree, for example.


Debris piles up on top of the body and silt accumulates. If the body lies out of the Sun's rays, which cause much more rapid decomposition, it can remain there until a flood washes away the silt and debris.

http://myqacorner.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-do-corpses-sunk-in-water-eventually_01.html

The drowning victim's body typically sinks shortly after death. It will resurface 3 days to 3 weeks after death. The surfacing is caused by bloating, which increases the volume of the body without increasing the weight. Sometimes, because of air trapped in the clothing on the victim, the body will not sink at all. In really cold water, the putrefaction process is very slow, and the body may not bloat up, so it will not resurface for a very long time. Lake Superior is said to be too cold offshore for a drowning victim to decompose, so that they never surface.

http://dmmoyle.com/simeans.htm

Bodies that are dead before they reach the water could have different floating patterns. A corpse that falls in face-first might remain on the surface, since there would be no way for the air inside the lungs to escape. (A faceup corpse would fill with water and sink in the normal fashion.)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2005/09/dead_mans_float.html

The human body is slightly heavier than fresh water. Consequently, when
unconsciousness takes place, the body sinks. Fat bodies are slightly more
buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water. If there is
considerable clothing on the body along with shoes, articles in the pockets and
other paraphernalia, it renders the body considerably less buoyant. The question
is often asked, "When a body sinks, how far down will it go?" There is some
dispute on this point, but the very best evidence indicates that a body will go to
the bottom regardless of how deep the water may be, unless it meets with some
obstruction or upward current which tends to prevent it. As a body sinks into
deep water, the pressure of the water tends to compress gasses in the
abdominal and chest cavities with the result that the body displaces less water as
it sinks deeper and consequently becomes less and less buoyant, the further
down it goes http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf
The spoiler contains sometimes graphic clinical information about how bodies behave when submerged and why. Some covers drowning specifically but most of the information would seem to apply regardless of manner of death.
 
  • #82
Thanks. I found the area you pointed out in street view, dated January 2013. There's some pretty serious washout there: https://goo.gl/maps/ACWXP

They might well have added another drainage pipe when they repaired the damage.

Oh, yikes, I didn't look at it in street view. The ground slopes in the opposite direction from what I thought. So it's NOT water from the lake but a pipe underneath airport property that drains right there. I think.

Sheesh, I don't know anything about anything. Hope they release more info first thing tomorrow A.M.
 
  • #83
Oh, yikes, I didn't look at it in street view. The ground slopes in the opposite direction from what I thought. So it's NOT water from the lake but a pipe underneath airport property that drains right there. I think.

Sheesh, I don't know anything about anything. Hope they release more info first thing tomorrow A.M.

That's what it looks like to me, but it's always hard to tell about relative elevations in a flat view. Also, the photos are two years old. A lot could have changed.

But my guess would be that the same spot floods after every storm. And that concrete channel is the only one that looks like it's big enough to hold a grown woman.

And you do so know lots and lots. The work you've done for Smurfette is amazing.
 
  • #84
woohoo, kids finally off all other devices in the house. Nice catch carbuff, your google image seems to show the washout area has a higher elevation and at least in 2013 image, there is a fence between lake/jogging trail and the pipe area. So unlikely that is where the jogger discovered the body (parts). So I wonder about the areas I have circled on OkieGranny's image. Those would seem easier for a person on the jogging trail to see down into and spot something unusual in. Particularly the one circled at left. Thoughts?

drainage pipe.png
 
  • #85
From the looks of the area, this section of the lakeside would be pretty quiet at night with just a tiny residential area wedged in between the two runways. After browsing street view on Google maps there seem to be many drain/manhole entrances and pipe exits in the area directly north of the runways. I can not see anything that looks to be a CCTV anywhere. There are a couple of road shoulders that seem to serve as parking for the lakeside walking trail where someone could park without drawing attention.

Upthread a sleuther commented that it may be a fairly recent disappearence as a strong odor was mentioned by the witness. Does anybody know if there is some kind of timeframe for these kind of observations? I remember living in a house once where a small mouse became trapped and died in a wall. The smell lasted a long, long time before we finally worked out what it was and where it was coming from.

That's a good point. If the body washed out of a pipe or storm drain, a lot of odor would probably come with it.

I wish I knew whether the remains really were dismembered, or disarticulated. If they were coming apart at the joints from natural decay, that would make them months old. Where the other could be only a matter of days.
 
  • #86
woohoo, kids finally off all other devices in the house. Nice catch carbuff, your google image seems to show the washout area has a higher elevation and at least in 2013 image, there is a fence between lake/jogging trail and the pipe area. So unlikely that is where the jogger discovered the body (parts). So I wonder about the areas I have circled on OkieGranny's image. Those would seem easier for a person on the jogging trail to see down into and spot something unusual in. Particularly the one circled at left. Thoughts?

Yeah, I did see those, ticya, and that's what made me think earlier that the drain pipe must be lake overflow. Can't find a spot on street view to get a good look to see what they are.
 
  • #87
This drainpipe with a cement spill path leading to the lake seems to pass right under the jogging path plus it's in a very secluded section of the road: away from the intersections, carparks and to the side of the runway lights (see center of image).
https://goo.gl/maps/ja6UB
If this is one of those large drain pipes with a 2-3 foot diameter, feasibly this could have been the dump site and the body hasn't travelled by the nearby lake at all. It really is like something from an episode of 'Law and Order' with the poor jogger coming across a grisly discovery... :(
 
  • #88
um I am gonna see if I am techie enough to post a screencap of the drainage ditch area pointed out by OkieGranny. See if you see what I see and then let me know if you guys think this might still be an accurate representation of the area near the road (below the gravel area) today. The image on google says its from 2013

ackk, so not good at this stuff

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8590076,-96.85573,3a,75y,154.88h,84.28t/data=!3m3!1e1!3m1!2e0

dang it can't get the screen cap to work the way I want so the above link, I hope, leads to the image I am seeing. It is the washout that has the chunks of recycled concrete or gravelish stuff. that area is behind a fence. but very near to the road there seems to be what should be a storn sewer type area along edge of roadway? In the image I am viewing that storm sewer cutout does not seem to have a grate on it that I am used to seeing in my area. Rather it seems to have a series of bars or slender pipes laid along it covering the opening.

ETA the image dates to January 2013. in the more current image it appears that opening alongside the road has been more secured but still I am wondering if that opening could somehow relate to this body.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.858...sVwQWPiJO1703mCL2wO1CwQ!2e0!5s20140301T000000 march 2014
 
  • #89
sorry eucalyptuz, I was lost in my own ineptitude. Waiting for your google link to load so I can check out what you are seeing there.

I have offically gotten myself obsessing over this one. And I really should get to bed. Hazards of WS :)
 
  • #90
See why you think its a likely spot. Wish I could get a better view of where the water comes from that would feed that drainage area. Directly across the street would seem to be a construction temp job site type trailer (white and red thingy) or utility substation with small pipes (possibly for plumbing) or fence posts laying outside (got that from street view). I cannot see a source for water from that side of the road nor any drain pipe looking spots so I am not sure what would feed the drain area you point out across road nearer to lake. maybe storm sewers?
 
  • #91
No problems tlcya :) I, too, seem to be officially obsessed with this case! And, I'm really sorry your internet speed can't keep up with your sleuthing mind...
I did see the area you were referring to next to the bridge and I guess I was looking for a more secluded drainpipe if we made the assumption that the body was placed there rather than being washed up. (And, as the information is so scant, probably my assumption is not entirely founded :thinking:)

I think I'm off to bed too... 'Night all
 
  • #92
with so little all avenues are worth exploring IMO. Where the body was apparently hidden either by device or by recent rains washing it to there could be a big factor. since we have no idea which happened at this point I look forward to reading more of everyone's thoughts on this one after we've gotten some blurry eyes rested.

:nightnight:
 
  • #93
See why you think its a likely spot. Wish I could get a better view of where the water comes from that would feed that drainage area. Directly across the street would seem to be a construction temp job site type trailer (white and red thingy) or utility substation with small pipes (possibly for plumbing) or fence posts laying outside (got that from street view). I cannot see a source for water from that side of the road nor any drain pipe looking spots so I am not sure what would feed the drain area you point out across road nearer to lake. maybe storm sewers?

I think the large exit drainpipe seems to be fed by stormwater drains along the road's edge. I went along this entire stretch on Google street view looking for a cctv and saw the stormwater drains either side of the runway light towers. The drains seemed large but probably not big enough to easily dispose of someone... there is also the possiblity of the aforementioned manhole. I wish we had a local sleuth who could check the area out as probably there is crime scene tape everywhere ...which could put our sleuthing minds to rest for the evening :)

Edit to add: link for wind direction at Love Field (only shows last three days but there does seem to be a N NW trend which may have allowed the smell to go undetected for a while)
http://w1.weather.gov/obhistory/KDAL.html
 
  • #94
(Does someone maybe want to submit Daisy Suzanna Hamilton to LE so they can at least look into her case? From what I understand, her mother has had trouble getting LE to even take a missing person's report...this could at least help jumpstart her case. I don't mind doing it, but I'll be at work all day tomorrow into the night. Tia)

Eta: link to Daisy Suzanna's thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...isy-Suzanna-Hamilton-31-Dallas-23-29-Aug-2013
 
  • #95
I live about 30 minutes from here... wish I had heard about this sooner so I could've made it out to take some pictures of the site and see if we could figure out exactly where the body was found. I will say that Bachman "Lake" isn't really much of a lake, more like a large retention pond. I'll see what else I can find out and maybe make it out there this weekend to snap some photos.
 
  • #96
  • #97
This is a shot of one of several drainage pipes on Bachman Lake which you can see, backs right up to the running trail.

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/bach...mOEnO9yfFRQ31ZhQXKWWqg#i7TnT3cU_l6JHaP1iJzkbg

I wonder if we could be looking in the wrong direction from 3600 Shorecrest? On satellite view I do see one of those on the near bank right next to Bachman trail, but it's in the 3500 block. The only one I see in the 3600 block is on the far bank.

And then there are those concrete things on either side of the bridge. I'm really curious what those are, exactly.
 
  • #98
I wonder if we could be looking in the wrong direction from 3600 Shorecrest? On satellite view I do see one of those on the near bank right next to Bachman trail, but it's in the 3500 block. The only one I see in the 3600 block is on the far bank.

And then there are those concrete things on either side of the bridge. I'm really curious what those are, exactly.

The bridge and cross roads that would take you to that WhataBurger I see (the orange striped roof building) are still the 3600 block, I think. I get confused easily but I did wonder if the location pinned by the media on the near side was for convenience and the photo with the airplane for the photo opp of the general area. Would you look to see where directions from 3600 to 3699 Shorecrest takes you? TIA.

Then, possible the 2013 photo at the barricades of the drainpipes staged for installation could very well be the same in that bridge area. But when I zoom out to get a 2014 view, I lose clarity.
 
  • #99
BTW, addresses are not always 100% accurate in street view. I can "walk" up and down a street looking for a certain house from a photo in a news article and, when I find it, the address Google Maps gives at the top of street view might be several houses away from the house I'm looking at on the same screen, according to the numbers nailed up next to the front door or painted on the curb.

The numbers on Shorecrest increase going east, so 3700 is to the right of 3600 on the map, on the opposite side of Lemmon Avenue.
 
  • #100
found a better shot of what the areas look like just beneath what I think is Webb Chapel as it crosses the lake and intersects with Shorecrest at around the 3600 block area. In zoom mode I can see a large drain pipe on teh opposite shore from Shorecrest Dr. Causes me to think there may be a similar one on the Shorecrest side of the overpass.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.859...sTQ1Cns4hUPb0C2aZDhzjbA!2e0!5s20140301T000000 Better close up of same drainage pipe which appears very close to the jogging trail and is located on the non Shorecrest side of lake right behind the walgreens. {ETA cannot get the image I want to link, keeps reverting to the previous image. possibly because I am zoomed. But easily relocatable in street view if one stands on Shorecrest, looks across teh lake toward the Walgreens

Another possible, seems very close to the trail along shoreline and on the Whatabuger side of lake rather than airport. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.859...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNiwSvX2Aoq4uFCa5duoMUA!2e0

Also noticing that in some of the google images of the Whataburger side of lake (non airport side) beneath the street overpasses people are hanging out. That would seem an unsavory are to hang out. For jjohnson or anyone local, would that be a place that unsavory activity such as doing or selling street drugs might happen? Or a gathering place for transients? I ask because of how the people I am seeing in google images seem to be acting. No fishing poles, doesn't seem recreational (or at least the outdoorsy type I would picture along a lakeshore or pond) if you follow.

heading across the lake in street view to see if I can get a better view of shoreline areas along the area we suspect she was located.
 

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