TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

[Shamrock1]

“But details of what took place inside the school have been slow to emerge, and aspects of the early accounts delivered by Gov. Greg Abbott and top state officials, including Mr. McCraw, have had to be amended or completely retracted. The official narrative has shifted from a story of swift response by the local police to one of hesitation and delay that deviated from two decades of training that instructs officers to quickly confront a gunman to save lives, even at a risk to their own.”

Aware of Injuries Inside, Uvalde Police Waited to Confront Gunman (Published 2022)

More than a dozen students remained alive for over an hour before officers entered their classrooms. The commander feared a risk to officers’ lives, new documents show.

www.nytimes.com

 

[IceIce9]

On the topic of school security

Police fatally shoot 'potential intruder' at Alabama school

Law enforcement said the person was shot to death after resisting and trying to take the school resource officer's gun.

www.wthr.com

GADSDEN, Ala. — A person who was trying to enter an Alabama elementary school where a summer program was being held was shot to death by a police officer Thursday morning, authorities said.
Gadsden City Schools Superintendent Tony Reddick told reporters that a “potential intruder” went to several doors trying to get into Walnut Park Elementary School, where a summer literacy program was being conducted for 34 children. All the exterior doors of the building were already locked, he said, and the principal sought help when she realized what was happening.


They haven’t yet released whether or not the potential intruder was armed, but if he was not armed will the SRO be condemned for shooting an unarmed man?

 

[Shamrock1]

“Across the room, the bodies of children lay in an unmoving mass, according to the documents. A similar cluster of bodies lay in Room 112.

Officers could be seen in video footage rushing a few children out of the room and carrying out Ms. Mireles, who appeared to be in extreme pain. She reached an ambulance, but died before reaching a hospital.

Inside the school, officers scrambled to carry or drag the limp bodies of children, some with severe gunshot wounds to their heads, to a triage area in the hallway.

For a time, the fourth graders’ bodies lay where they had been taken, contorted on blood-streaked linoleum under a large colorful banner. ‘Class of 2022,’ it read. “Congrats!’”

Aware of Injuries Inside, Uvalde Police Waited to Confront Gunman (Published 2022)

More than a dozen students remained alive for over an hour before officers entered their classrooms. The commander feared a risk to officers’ lives, new documents show.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Heavily armed officers delayed confronting a gunman in Uvalde, Texas, for more than an hour despite supervisors at the scene being told that some trapped with him in two elementary school classrooms were in need of medical treatment, a new review of video footage and other investigative material shows. Instead, the documents show, they waited for protective equipment to lower the risk to law enforcement officers.

The school district police chief, who was leading the response to the May 24 shooting, appeared to be agonizing over the length of time it was taking to secure the shields that would help protect officers when they entered and to find a key for the classroom doors, It was not clear from the transcript if anyone had tried the door to see if it was locked.
according to law enforcement documents and video gathered as part of the investigation reviewed by The New York Times...

The chief, Pete Arredondo, and others at the scene became aware that not everyone inside the classrooms was already dead, the documents showed, including a report from a school district police officer whose wife, a teacher, had spoken to him by phone from one of the classrooms to say she had been shot…

A cascade of failures took place at the school: the local police radio system, later tests showed, did not function properly inside the building; classroom doors could not be quickly locked in an emergency; and after an initial burst of shooting from the gunman, no police officer went near the door again for more than 40 minutes, instead hanging back at a distance in the hallway…

Chief Arredondo was among the first officers to enter the school and approach the classrooms where the gunman was…

Officers could be seen in video footage rushing a few children out of the room and carrying out Ms. Mireles, who appeared to be in extreme pain. She reached an ambulance, but died before reaching a hospital.

Aware of Injuries Inside, Uvalde Police Waited to Confront Gunman (Published 2022)

More than a dozen students remained alive for over an hour before officers entered their classrooms. The commander feared a risk to officers’ lives, new documents show.

www.nytimes.com

Radio did not transmit effectively inside the school or even just outside of it.
So the radio didn't work outside either? A radio system designed for outside, doesn't work outside?


I really question this "low frequency, long range, designed for outdoors" radio system.

Aware of Injuries Inside, Uvalde Police Waited to Confront Gunman (Published 2022)

More than a dozen students remained alive for over an hour before officers entered their classrooms. The commander feared a risk to officers’ lives, new documents show.

www.nytimes.com

 

[PrairieWind]

On the topic of school security

Police fatally shoot 'potential intruder' at Alabama school

Law enforcement said the person was shot to death after resisting and trying to take the school resource officer's gun.

www.wthr.com

GADSDEN, Ala. — A person who was trying to enter an Alabama elementary school where a summer program was being held was shot to death by a police officer Thursday morning, authorities said.
Gadsden City Schools Superintendent Tony Reddick told reporters that a “potential intruder” went to several doors trying to get into Walnut Park Elementary School, where a summer literacy program was being conducted for 34 children. All the exterior doors of the building were already locked, he said, and the principal sought help when she realized what was happening.


They haven’t yet released whether or not the potential intruder was armed, but if he was not armed will the SRO be condemned for shooting an unarmed man?

I don't think so. When the SRO confronted the person, he apparently attacked the SRO. The SRO had minor injuries. I don't think too many would condemn the officer for shooting.

 

[IceIce9]

I don't think so. When the SRO confronted the person, he apparently attacked the SRO. The SRO had minor injuries. I don't think too many would condemn the officer for shooting.

I hope you are right. Police are often criticized for killing unarmed attackers.

 

[PrairieWind]

I hope you are right. Police are often criticized for killing unarmed attackers.

And sometimes that criticism is justified. But given this situation, the massacre in Uvalde, and that the person did physically attack the officer, I think most people will not condemn him.

 

[zecats]

School security taken seriously -

Motivated by what happened in Texas, or perhaps just a regular training drill due to upcoming award ceremonies and graduation, the high school where I work was literally overrun today by 7 NJ state police SUV's, an unmarked SUV, and 20 state cops. The students in the classroom with me were wide-eyed when they all pulled up in front of the building, visible from the windows where we were. We watched them walk around the perimeter of the building and then enter the school to continue walking around the building. At one point, about 10 of them were right outside our door in the hallway. One curious student, who asked to use the facilities, asked them what was going on. They told him "active shooter drill." They remained on property for an hour or so, walking the halls, checking doors, and checking outside, taking notes.

 

[Arkay]

Heavily armed officers delayed confronting a gunman in Uvalde, Texas, for more than an hour despite supervisors at the scene being told that some trapped with him in two elementary school classrooms were in need of medical treatment, a new review of video footage and other investigative material shows. Instead, the documents show, they waited for protective equipment to lower the risk to law enforcement officers.

It is absolutely unbearable to think of children and teachers bleeding out, just on the other side of a door from armed police, for over an hour. Just knowing that help was RIGHT THERE, but they died anyway.

Literally the only justification I can imagine is akin to what parents are told when an airplane is in trouble----put the oxygen mask on YOURSELF before you put it on your children. It goes against human nature, but we know the reason is that if we, the parents, are rendered unconscious then we cannot help our children through the emergency.

I will guess that there were in fact brave cops who knew their duty was to jeopardize their lives to save the victims, but knew that if they entered without the protective equipment, they'd all be mowed down by the AR-15, and whatever that hellfire thing is, and then they'd be unable to rescue the children and would die as well.

If there is any truth to that, then the problems that still remain, in my view, are the unlocked door, the faulty radios, and the time it took for other LE to arrive with protective equipment.

I will also just speculate that maybe LE didn't shoot through the classroom door window in fear of potentially killing a child or adult by accident, even though they may have been able to get into the room more quickly.

Just trying to think like a cop making life or death decisions.

I do think this was a foul up of massive proportions and I'm only speculating about LE's potential line of thinking. I just know a lot of NYPD, including two now retired relatives, a NYC police captain and a Fed detective, neither of whom would have ever hesitated to rescue these kids, some way, somehow.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

It is absolutely unbearable to think of children and teachers bleeding out, just on the other side of a door from armed police, for over an hour. Just knowing that help was RIGHT THERE, but they died anyway.

Literally the only justification I can imagine is akin to what parents are told when an airplane is in trouble----put the oxygen mask on YOURSELF before you put it on your children. It goes against human nature, but we know the reason is that if we, the parents, are rendered unconscious then we cannot help our children through the emergency.

I will guess that there were in fact brave cops who knew their duty was to jeopardize their lives to save the victims, but knew that if they entered without the protective equipment, they'd all be mowed down by the AR-15, and whatever that hellfire thing is, and then they'd be unable to rescue the children and would die as well.

If there is any truth to that, then the problems that still remain, in my view, are the unlocked door, the faulty radios, and the time it took for other LE to arrive with protective equipment.

I will also just speculate that maybe LE didn't shoot through the classroom door window in fear of potentially killing a child or adult by accident, even though they may have been able to get into the room more quickly.

Just trying to think like a cop making life or death decisions.

I do think this was a foul up of massive proportions and I'm only speculating about LE's potential line of thinking. I just know a lot of NYPD, including two now retired relatives, a NYC police captain and a Fed detective, neither of whom would have ever hesitated to rescue these kids, some way, somehow.

IMO

Hmmm...
And the ironic thing is, that the weapon LE was scared of, was bought legally by a disturbed teen

 

[Friday Fan]

I'm pretty sure there was alot of "It can't happen here" attitude in Uvalde.

There was some of that after Sandy Hook..
"It happened there because _______ (fill in the blank)"

Even the mental health attitude..."Kids with mental health issues mostly do drugs".

 

[Dotta]

Wishful thinking is so pleasant.... until reality crashes.

 

[Seattle1]

My public library's COVID moratorium for late returns or lost books, expired today.

As I was waiting in the line that issues printed receipts, confirming the return of my bag of books, 4 elementary school-age boys, probably 7-8-ish are ahead of me.

This is part of what I overheard.

Calling it out of the mouths of babes:

Guns should cost as much as a house.
His dad should make him.
I think your dad can make you spend your money on college.
Then you won't have money left for a gun.
I think you get a discount if you don't borrow money for college.

When President Biden makes everybody put their guns inside the recycle, the truck that comes in the afternoon, not the morning, we won't ever have a shooter at our school!

I think you're right because if a bad man doesn't have a gun, he doesn't have any reason to come to our school.

The 4th boy only listened. Within less than a minute, he bent down and tied his left sneaker. About 45 seconds later, he tied the right one.

When I got back to my car, I sobbed like a baby.

 

[sds71]

“My mind was to get there as fast as possible, eliminate any threats, and protect the students and staff,” Arredondo said. He noted that some 500 students from the school were safely evacuated during the crisis…

“Each time I tried a key I was just praying,” Arredondo said. Finally, 77 minutes after the massacre began, officers were able to unlock the door and fatally shoot the gunman.

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

Criticized by law enforcement experts for slowness in taking out the shooter, Pete Arredondo described an agonizing wait for a key that would work. In an interview with The Texas Tribune, he said he hadn’t spoken out sooner because he didn’t want to compound his hometown’s grief or point blame.

www.texastribune.org

The shooter and Arredondo entered the school on opposite sides​

 

[Seattle1]

“My mind was to get there as fast as possible, eliminate any threats, and protect the students and staff,” Arredondo said. He noted that some 500 students from the school were safely evacuated during the crisis…

“Each time I tried a key I was just praying,” Arredondo said. Finally, 77 minutes after the massacre began, officers were able to unlock the door and fatally shoot the gunman.

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

Criticized by law enforcement experts for slowness in taking out the shooter, Pete Arredondo described an agonizing wait for a key that would work. In an interview with The Texas Tribune, he said he hadn’t spoken out sooner because he didn’t want to compound his hometown’s grief or point blame.

www.texastribune.org

The shooter and Arredondo entered the school on opposite sides​

This was a very difficult read. I probably better sleep on it before I attempt to respond.

 

[sds71]

After Visiting Friend's Memorial, Uvalde Survivor, 11, Was Hospitalized After Nearly Suffering Heart Attack: Mom

Amerie Jo Garza protected Illiana Treviño from school bullies, Illiana's mother tells PEOPLE

people.com

 

[Dotta]

2 more families joined the lawsuit

More families join $100M lawsuit against Uvalde gunman's estate

The new plaintiffs include the families of Robb Elementary School teacher Irma Garcia, 48 - whose husband, Joe, died of a heart attack days later - and Jose Flores Jr., 10, two of the 21 victims.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[K9Enzo]

I can't wrap my mind around locked doors and no keys = no entry, too late entry into the classroom with victims increasing.

Tactical breaching of doors. Flashbang that causes confusion but targets the shooter. IMO

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

Criticized by law enforcement experts for slowness in taking out the shooter, Pete Arredondo described an agonizing wait for a key that would work. In an interview with The Texas Tribune, he said he hadn’t spoken out sooner because he didn’t want to compound his hometown’s grief or point blame.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I almost think for the people in the classes where the gunman roamed, it would have been better if the police - as an organisation - had not been there at all.

 

[Sundog]

Waiting for keys, unable to break down doors: Uvalde schools police chief defends delay in confronting gunman

I’m glad the Uvalde schools police chief has finally spoken out to the media. Unfortunately, however, the delay in telling his account of events has allowed the lynch mob mentality to prevail during his silence. We now have more details from his account, and this fills in some of the blanks, and helps until we get the final report of the review by the federal government.

"Bruce Ure, a former Victoria police chief, said drawing conclusions about police conduct during the shooting is premature since the authorities have not completed their investigations. He said he believes Arredondo acted reasonably given the circumstances he faced.

Ure disagreed that Arredondo should have retreated into a command role once other officers arrived, since most active-shooter events last mere minutes. He argued that no amount of ad-hoc planning outside would have changed the outcome of the massacre once the shooter got inside the classrooms.

He said attempting to breach windows or open classroom doors by force were unrealistic options that would have exposed police and children to potentially fatal gunfire with little chance of success. Officers’ only choice, he said, was to wait to find a key, which he agreed should not have taken so long.

Hyde said attempting to enter through windows would have “guaranteed all the children in the rooms would be killed” along with several officers. He said this “reckless and ineffective” action, when police could not see where the shooter was, would have made officers easy targets to be picked off at will.

Ure, who as an attendee was wounded in the hand during the 2017 Las Vegas concert shooting that killed 60 people, acknowledged the post-Columbine wisdom that immediately confronting shooters is paramount. But he said the scene inside Robb Elementary presented a “perfect storm” of an active shooter barricaded with hostages.

"There’s no manual for this type of scenario,” Ure said. “If people need to be held appropriately accountable, then so be it. But I think the lynch-mob mentality right now isn’t serving any purpose, and it’s borderline reckless.”