TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

[IceIce9]

I was watching Twitter for updates as the story played out, and it seemed to me it went from “no students injured” to “one person shot” and “the shooting is not on school grounds” to “two patients have been received at a local hospital, one child and one adult” to the totally shocking “14 dead” rapidly.

I think the “one person shot” and “the shooting not on school grounds” was referring to the shooting of his grandmother.

 

[PrairieWind]

I am still very much following this story, but I am not commenting much. Things are changing so much that it is impossible to know what is true and what isn't. And I don't think media is helping things much. They seem to be reporting everything they hear with little regard to whether its true or not and little work to ascertain truth.

 

[kaen]

I am still very much following this story, but I am not commenting much. Things are changing so much that it is impossible to know what is true and what isn't. And I don't think media is helping things much. They seem to be reporting everything they hear with little regard to whether its true or not and little work to ascertain truth.

I agree about the media and the information shared. The district and the PD should have had a comprehensive plan for an attack, including a media plan. Who speaks, when, and with an understanding that you never go over you own level of expertise. In my school, the plan was that LE/Emergency services spoke on their responses while the school/district took the lead on all school based issues. For example, if we had an incident, LE would comment on the response, aftermath, and casualties. The school/district would provide appropriate information on school based training, procedures, and the ensuing aftermath review (not including anything criminal). Politicians (mayors) would be briefed by LE and the district with a particular goal of one message so no one spreads false information. All communication was to be coordinated to avoid any blunders.

Much of what we are hearing in this situation is contradictory because politicians, police, school officials and larger LE organizations are all speaking for themselves.

It is clear they had not created a comprehensive plan OR, if they did, no one stuck to it. As we are seeing families talking about hearing misinformation about survivors, the lack of planning is evident. In my school's plan, there was a direct line about not speaking about anything until the scene was secured, casualty count identified, and all children/teachers accounted for in order to make sure we were not creating exactly this kind of issue--yo-yoing people between hope and despair. Parents/guardians and families would want to know ASAP obviously but methodical communication is key. It took many hours for those families at Sandy Hook to definitively know that their child was killed. But, the idea was to ensure that all who were told we told with real information that was not in dispute. Excruciating for those waiting (some of whom I know) but in the end much more humane. To my knowledge the grief of the Sandy Hook families never became focused on the LE working that day or how they were told.

There should be a report issued by LE and the school district that outlines the incident and the outcomes. I am sure, if the superintendent did tell everyone that there were no deaths that we will that in the report and recommendations to never do that again.

This small town seems to have lots of people who play multiple roles-- chief also on the board, etc. as well as the School Board meeting in closed session to agree to a raise and extension before we know if the superintendent was effective. None of it is good for this community at this point in time. IMHO.

 

[K9Enzo]

A veteran cop ditching his TWO radios - huge red flag. That's your life line. Everything PA said, everything he did / didn't do was a red flag. As another poster described it - he was worse than "useless". I quickly got the impression he really did not want to open that door. I believe the technical term is cowardice. JMO

Cowardice then becomes contagious to others. IMO

 

[Dotta]

Everything seems really chaotic.

In my opinion, a crisis centre should have been organised (by a mayor?) with a spokesman.

All data gathered there, with a communication place for press.

Media do what their job is.

 

[tayaway]

Cowardice then becomes contagious to others. IMO

Crap flows downhill, as they say.

 

[Erutan]

A veteran cop ditching his TWO radios - huge red flag. That's your life line. Everything PA said, everything he did / didn't do was a red flag. As another poster described it - he was worse than "useless". I quickly got the impression he really did not want to open that door. I believe the technical term is cowardice. JMO

Agreed.
And sadly, his 'underlings' who answered to this police chief were hampered by his decisions.
Lives were lost that might have been saved if someone had reached them in time.
This has to compound the anguish and grief of the families !

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I agree about the media and the information shared. The district and the PD should have had a comprehensive plan for an attack, including a media plan. Who speaks, when, and with an understanding that you never go over you own level of expertise. In my school, the plan was that LE/Emergency services spoke on their responses while the school/district took the lead on all school based issues. For example, if we had an incident, LE would comment on the response, aftermath, and casualties. The school/district would provide appropriate information on school based training, procedures, and the ensuing aftermath review (not including anything criminal). Politicians (mayors) would be briefed by LE and the district with a particular goal of one message so no one spreads false information. All communication was to be coordinated to avoid any blunders.

Much of what we are hearing in this situation is contradictory because politicians, police, school officials and larger LE organizations are all speaking for themselves.

It is clear they had not created a comprehensive plan OR, if they did, no one stuck to it. As we are seeing families talking about hearing misinformation about survivors, the lack of planning is evident. In my school's plan, there was a direct line about not speaking about anything until the scene was secured, casualty count identified, and all children/teachers accounted for in order to make sure we were not creating exactly this kind of issue--yo-yoing people between hope and despair. Parents/guardians and families would want to know ASAP obviously but methodical communication is key. It took many hours for those families at Sandy Hook to definitively know that their child was killed. But, the idea was to ensure that all who were told we told with real information that was not in dispute. Excruciating for those waiting (some of whom I know) but in the end much more humane. To my knowledge the grief of the Sandy Hook families never became focused on the LE working that day or how they were told.

There should be a report issued by LE and the school district that outlines the incident and the outcomes. I am sure, if the superintendent did tell everyone that there were no deaths that we will that in the report and recommendations to never do that again.

This small town seems to have lots of people who play multiple roles-- chief also on the board, etc. as well as the School Board meeting in closed session to agree to a raise and extension before we know if the superintendent was effective. None of it is good for this community at this point in time. IMHO.

That is the way that small town America operates. Not ALL small towns - but a LOT of them. For lack of a better term "good ole boys" - is what they go by. And they do it for money and power - so they can make sure the town is run the way THEY THINK it should be and they can make the money they need to thrive in a small town economy.
Example: Say one of them own a successful business - let's say a tractor/feed supply or maybe a fast food franchise (pick one) - well, if someone comes along and wants to open a business that "competes" with that - well, the city commission will simply deny the application for a business license and cite some ridiculous reason for rejection. Competition goes away and power structure stays in place. This also applies to jobs - positions in LE, banking, public works. There are only so many jobs to go around in a small town and they make sure those jobs go to people within their network/framework of power.

The closed door session I posted was held in January of 2020 - so he's been making that money for over 2 years now. Keeping the power structure in place. But, to be clear, all school boards everywhere operate this way - evaluating their superintendent and voting on pay raises. ALL of them. The superintendent is an employee - so public input is not required or requested. The media just reports about it - after it is already done.

The fact that this happened in such a small town is what is exposing all of this. Uvalde law enforcement - regardless of city PD, county sheriff, or the school PD were "comfortable" (for lack of a better word) in their positions of power. They did not have the experience, knowledge, or training for an incident of this magnitude. I looked up the crime stats for Uvalde - latest year I found was 2020 and they had 0 - ZERO - murders and only 8 rapes for the entire year. They developed an attitude of "well that doesn't happen here" or "that won't/can't happen here". But the problem was IT DID HAPPEN HERE and they were unprepared, under-trained, and inexperienced to handle it. So now they have "egg on their face" and will have to accept and deal with the consequences of their complacency, ineptness, competency. Sux to be them. But the world is watching and definitely paying attention now.

UVALDE VIOLENT CRIMES​

POPULATION: 15,217​

	MURDER	RAPE	ROBBERY	ASSAULT
Report Total	0	8	4	52
Rate per 1,000	0.00	0.53	0.26	3.42

Uvalde, 78801 Crime Rates and Crime Statistics - NeighborhoodScout

Most accurate 2021 crime rates for Uvalde, TX. Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in Uvalde is 1 in 309 and property crime is 1 in 44. Compare Uvalde crime data to other cities, states, and neighborhoods in the U.S. on NeighborhoodScout.

www.neighborhoodscout.com

JMHO

 

[Dotta]

Crap flows downhill, as they say.

As we say in my country
"A fish starts rotting at its head"!

 

[Wise Old Owl]

As we say in my country
"A fish starts rotting at its head"!

LOL - my grandpa used to say:

"the fish stinks from the head down!"

Great minds think alike!


JMHO

 

[Friday Fan]

That is the way that small town America operates. Not ALL small towns - but a LOT of them. For lack of a better term "good ole boys" - is what they go by. And they do it for money and power - so they can make sure the town is run the way THEY THINK it should be and they can make the money they need to thrive in a small town economy.
Example: Say one of them own a successful business - let's say a tractor/feed supply or maybe a fast food franchise (pick one) - well, if someone comes along and wants to open a business that "competes" with that - well, the city commission will simply deny the application for a business license and cite some ridiculous reason for rejection. Competition goes away and power structure stays in place. This also applies to jobs - positions in LE, banking, public works. There are only so many jobs to go around in a small town and they make sure those jobs go to people within their network/framework of power.

The closed door session I posted was held in January of 2020 - so he's been making that money for over 2 years now. Keeping the power structure in place. But, to be clear, all school boards everywhere operate this way - evaluating their superintendent and voting on pay raises. ALL of them. The superintendent is an employee - so public input is not required or requested.

The fact that this happened in such a small town is what is exposing all of this. Uvalde law enforcement - regardless of city PD, county sheriff, or the school PD were "comfortable" (for lack of a better word) in their positions of power. They did not have the experience, knowledge, or training for an incident of this magnitude. I looked up the crime stats for Uvalde - latest year I found was 2020 and they had 0 - ZERO - murders and only 8 rapes for the entire year. They developed an attitude of "well that doesn't happen here" or "that won't/can't happen here". But the problem was IT DID HAPPEN HERE and they were unprepared, under-trained, and inexperienced to handle it. So now they have "egg on their face" and will have to accept and deal with the consequences of their complacency, ineptness, competency. Sux to be them. But the world is watching and definitely paying attention now.

UVALDE VIOLENT CRIMES​

POPULATION: 15,217​

	MURDER	RAPE	ROBBERY	ASSAULT
Report Total	0	8	4	52
Rate per 1,000	0.00	0.53	0.26	3.42

Uvalde, 78801 Crime Rates and Crime Statistics - NeighborhoodScout

Most accurate 2021 crime rates for Uvalde, TX. Your chance of being a victim of violent crime in Uvalde is 1 in 309 and property crime is 1 in 44. Compare Uvalde crime data to other cities, states, and neighborhoods in the U.S. on NeighborhoodScout.

www.neighborhoodscout.com

JMHO

Great insight
Uvalde is a bit unique because it is also a "law enforcement" town. They have the Border Patrol station. Law enforcement is a popular career among blue collar families in South Texas because it is stable work with good benefits and upward mobility. Other than that, there is not much driving the economy in the region. Prior to the shooting, the PD had an "appearance" as "tough on crime". They would proudly showcase every arrest and mugshot. Some were obviously prostitution arrests. ...The majority of the photos have no description of the crime committed.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Great insight
Uvalde is a bit unique because it is also a "law enforcement" town. They have the Border Patrol station. Law enforcement is a popular career among blue collar families in South Texas because it is stable work with good benefits and upward mobility. Other than that, there is not much driving the economy in the region. Prior to the shooting, the PD had an "appearance" as "tough on crime". They would proudly showcase every arrest and mugshot. Some were obviously prostitution arrests. ...The majority of the photos have no description of the crime committed.

BBM
GOOD POINT!

Border Patrol is a federal component. When the federal government comes in and says we are going to put in a satellite station/office/unit in this town - well, nobody says no. they can't. I think the fed would probably go through the state offices to institute satellite stations anyway.

AND - IIRC - it was a BORTAC (border patrol tactical unit - swat) team that finally said "to h3ll with this.......we're going in" and did and took the shooter out.
AND - notice that we have heard NOTHING about these agents - I did see were it said that the entire BORTAC unit wasn't there - it was just a few agents and they "recruited" others from different agencies to go with them - the media called it an "ad-hoc" unit.

The agent that took the shooter out has not been identified at all. Yet. And you can bet he is talking - no - he is singing like a canary!!!!!

This has turned into an LE nightmare. Local inept school police chief giving commands to a federal agent that is a member of a border patrol swat team. AND - I think the teacher that died in the ambulance was also the wife of a local - City PD LE. And that ain't good - she even called him on the phone. I bet he was one of them that joined up with that federal agent to go in.

However this turns out - it is going to be bad. We already know that but I'm wondering if we will ever know the real truth of how this all went down.


JMHO

 

[mister happy]

I suppose we all knew that small town Mayberry was TV fantasy.

 

[Seattle1]

I am still very much following this story, but I am not commenting much. Things are changing so much that it is impossible to know what is true and what isn't. And I don't think media is helping things much. They seem to be reporting everything they hear with little regard to whether its true or not and little work to ascertain truth.

Couldn't agree more.

Seemingly, the more negative, the better-- sans any support! And all while devastated families are burying their children. Not unlike Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc., we will be hearing about this tragedy for years, and no need to sensationalize it without verification, just for clicks. MOO

 

[formerlyme]

just catching up... speechless.

 

[sds71]

Multiple police officers stood in a hallway at Robb Elementary School armed with rifles and at least one ballistic shield within nine minutes of a gunman arriving at the campus, according to documents reviewed by the American-Statesman, a devastating new revelation deepening questions about why police didn’t act faster to stop the shooter who killed 19 children and two teachers.

Even as officers with high-powered weapons and ballistic shields massed inside the blue and green hallway, the gunman could be heard firing rounds — including at 12:21 p.m. — 29 minutes before officers entered the classroom and killed him.

Investigators say the latest information indicates officers had more than enough firepower and protection to take down the gunman long before they finally did.

Authorities have produced the most extensive timeline yet since the 18-year-old armed with an AR-15 walked into the Uvalde school on May 24, shattering a South Texas town and reigniting the gun debate nationwide.

Much of the new information is expected to be presented at a Texas Senate hearing Tuesday, the first of two consecutive days of hearings at the Capitol that will give members of the public their first opportunity to address lawmakers on gun violence and related issues.

State Sen. Robert Nichols, R-Jacksonville, chairman of the committee, said he expects to cast "a wide net" to examine a complex issue and develop recommendations to present to the full Senate.

Exclusive: Officers arrived at Uvalde school with rifles, ballistic shield 9 minutes after gunman

New revelations raise fresh questions about why officers waited more than an hour to confront the gunman at Robb Elementary in Uvalde.

www.statesman.com

First interior image released in Uvalde school shooting shows officers with more firepower than previously believed

The image raises more questions regarding the response timeline reported by police.

www.kvue.com

 

[Wise Old Owl]

First interior image released in Uvalde school shooting shows officers with more firepower than previously believed

The image raises more questions regarding the response timeline reported by police.

www.kvue.com

At 11:44 a.m., body camera footage then detects more shots from the gunman. At 11:52 a.m., an officer with the first ballistic shield enters the school and other officers grow more impatient. In body camera footage, you can hear one officer say, "If there's kids in there, we need to go in there."

At 12:03 p.m., an officer with another shield enters the school, followed by a third two minutes later. New information also suggests that Arredondo also attempted to communicate with the gunman, asking whether he could hear him.

About 30 minutes before breaching the classroom, Arredondo is heard wondering aloud whether officers could consider shooting the suspect through the classroom's windows.
Then, at 12:46 p.m., the timeline shows that Arredondo told SWAT officers who had arrived that they should breach the classroom door as soon as they were ready.


Well well well. Tomorrow should be an interesting day. From what I pulled out above - it seems PA was in command. That LE did INDEED have the firepower AND the shields needed to breach. Also, we had heard that PA called the shooter on his cell - so that is now back in play. AND that PA had WONDERED - wondered? if a sniper could have taken the shooter out through a window!!! I pretty much thought the shooter had closed the blinds on the windows so LE couldn't see in.

The $%&*# just keeps getting deeper for PA.

Does anyone know if this hearing is going to be telecast? I would love to have a link if they are going to televise it.



JMHO

 

[Friday Fan]

Does anyone know if this hearing is going to be telecast? I would love to have a link if they are going to televise it.



JMHO

No. The hearing is behind closed doors.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

No. The hearing is behind closed doors.

First interior image released in Uvalde school shooting shows officers with more firepower than previously believed
From the article:

Much of this new information is expected to be presented at a Texas Senate hearing on Tuesday, the first of two consecutive days at the Capitol where members of the public can address lawmakers.


And, if you watch the video in the link they talk about how the media will be present tomorrow and more about what is going to be presented.


JMHO

 

[WingsOverTX]

First interior image released in Uvalde school shooting shows officers with more firepower than previously believed
From the article:

Much of this new information is expected to be presented at a Texas Senate hearing on Tuesday, the first of two consecutive days at the Capitol where members of the public can address lawmakers.


And, if you watch the video in the link they talk about how the media will be present tomorrow and more about what is going to be presented.


JMHO

Very glad to hear there is Texas Senate hearing starting June 21 in Austin.

AP has lied IMO regarding not being in charge at the scene at least at some point. I wonder if he will testify in Austin or if he will retain counsel to invoke his 5th amendment right to remain silent. Having spoken to the media, he has public statements out there.

Also of significance per the article:

Also on Tuesday, the City of Uvalde will discuss granting a leave of absence from future council meetings to Councilman Arredondo.

BBM & MOO

ETA: I'm amazed that the Statesman has put their full report behind a paywall. That is definitely not in the public interest. Does anyone here have access?