TX - Woman flushes newborn baby down toilet in Whataburger bathroom - Dec. 19, 2024

[MadMcGoo]

Please, let's not throw stones at the Whataburger staff.

I'm going to update the thread title to reflect the correct offense date. According to the articles and her jail record, this occurred on Thursday, December 19th. It's hard to tell if she arrived at noon or midnight. The majority of articles indicate it happened between noon and 2 p.m. Her jail sheet isn't helpful because she wasn't formally booked into the detention center for quite some time (not unusual given the size of the facility and the time of year she was arrested).

Jail View

portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud

She's currently only being charged with abuse of a corpse, so I wonder if more serious charges may come following a thorough investigation, or if they've already determined the baby wasn't living when she... did what she did.

Evidently, it's rare for a baby to be born still inside an intact amniotic sac. (I'm not a medical professional, just going based on what Google told me)

En Caul Birth: What Is It?

En caul birth is when a baby is born still inside an intact amniotic sac. Learn more about what causes it, why it’s important, and what to expect.

www.webmd.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

"The document indicates firefighters found a baby in a toilet, still enveloped in its amniotic sac. They freed the baby and began immediate efforts to revive the little girl."

That info alone pretty much tells me that the mother didn't actually attempt to do ANY assessing of the situation to confirm whether or not she was born alive. My guess is that the baby was delivered in the toilet and was left untouched until paramedics arrived.

My heart goes out to the firefighters who tried to revive the premature 3-ish lb female fetus.
A traumatic experience for them and tragic that the mother believed that this was her only option when she went into labor.
Hopefully she gets the help she so desperately needs and isn't just thrown into the system.

 

[tlcya]

The arrest affidavit reports Strait said: "I'm sorry. I'm not selfish."
Texas woman arrested for allegedly giving birth, flushing fetus in Whataburger toilet

I haven't been able to locate the actual affidavit yet.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I feel for any pregnant woman in Texas right now. We don't know her circumstances at all. But we do know it's not a given that she could have gone to a hospital and gotten help.

 

[mickey2942]

These fastfood managers are not EMTs or police or social workers yet every day they have to deal with people with all kinds of issues. A large majority are homeless, and have addiction and/or mental health problems. I'm willing to give the staff here some slack.

No win situation here. Manager was probably worried if law enforcement was called on a woman using the bathroom, even for an extended period of time, it is not against the law, is there a sign that specifies length of time to use restroom? We will probably see something soon about this, which would then bring up issue of rights of people to use the bathroom.

That being said, I have seen more places with locks on bathrooms, and getting a key to use the restroom, but again, no specificity on length of time.

 

[tlcya]

I feel for any pregnant woman in Texas right now. We don't know her circumstances at all. But we do know it's not a given that she could have gone to a hospital and gotten help.

why exactly would a 28 to 30 week pregnant woman in TX fear going to the hospital or seeking medical assistance to deliver her child? Not trying to drag this thread into a political discussion but I do not understand your post at all. Can you elaborate as to why THIS pregnant woman could not go to a hospital and get help? TIA

 

[SMK777]

why exactly would a 28 to 30 week pregnant woman in TX fear going to the hospital or seeking medical assistance to deliver her child? Not trying to drag this thread into a political discussion but I do not understand your post at all. Can you elaborate as to why THIS pregnant woman could not go to a hospital and get help? TIA

I'm not the poster to whom you addressed your question, but I had on my own thought of lack of ID, lack of proof of citizenship, no insurance [while we are in an era where there is pending legislation being discussed in various states about requesting that hospitals no longer see the uninsured], etc.

 

[tlcya]

I don't think a lack of insurance is a valid reason to fear seeking medical assistance. I do think a lack of citizenship or outstanding felony warrants, involvement with CPS for other children, etc might play a role in someone's decision to attempt to deliver their child in secret in a fast food restaurant and dispose of the result of that labor though. Not a single one of those listed evokes any empathy or sympathy from me. JMO

 

[SMK777]

I don't think a lack of insurance is a valid reason to fear seeking medical assistance. I do think a lack of citizenship or outstanding felony warrants, involvement with CPS for other children, etc might play a role in someone's decision to attempt to deliver their child in secret in a fast food restaurant and dispose of the result of that labor though. Not a single one of those listed evokes any empathy or sympathy from me. JMO

I hadn't thought of warrants or CPS, but that is indeed a shame for the infant, while at the same time being the mother's fault.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

why exactly would a 28 to 30 week pregnant woman in TX fear going to the hospital or seeking medical assistance to deliver her child? Not trying to drag this thread into a political discussion but I do not understand your post at all. Can you elaborate as to why THIS pregnant woman could not go to a hospital and get help? TIA

Because there have been so many stories of women in Texas being sent home without getting proper care. It's in the news here and is on people's minds. Any woman would be afraid, it's just not the best time to be pregnant in Texas.

A Third Woman Died Under Texas’ Abortion Ban. Doctors Are Avoiding D&Cs and Reaching for Riskier Miscarriage Treatments.

Thirty-five-year-old Porsha Ngumezi’s case raises questions about how abortion bans are pressuring doctors to avoid standard care even in straightforward miscarriages.

www.propublica.org

Emergency rooms refused to treat pregnant women, leaving one to miscarry in a lobby restroom

Complaints about pregnant women being turned away from emergency rooms spiked in the months after states began enacting strict abortion laws following the 2022 U.S.

apnews.com

 

[tlcya]

Because there have been so many stories of women in Texas being sent home without getting proper care. It's in the news here and is on people's minds. Any woman would be afraid, it's just not the best time to be pregnant in Texas.

A Third Woman Died Under Texas’ Abortion Ban. Doctors Are Avoiding D&Cs and Reaching for Riskier Miscarriage Treatments.

Thirty-five-year-old Porsha Ngumezi’s case raises questions about how abortion bans are pressuring doctors to avoid standard care even in straightforward miscarriages.

www.propublica.org

Emergency rooms refused to treat pregnant women, leaving one to miscarry in a lobby restroom

Complaints about pregnant women being turned away from emergency rooms spiked in the months after states began enacting strict abortion laws following the 2022 U.S.

apnews.com

I doubt much was on this specific woman's mind except to deliver a baby she didn't want into a toilet and flush the evidence. JMO. Thank you though for your response. I don't want to get the thread closed or cleaned up for going off topic so all I can say is I do understand those who feel the current laws in TX may have influenced her decision making. I just don't think it applies to this instance. If evidence is reported that causes me to change my opinion on this case I will be the first to admit it.

ETA wanted to add that there are at least two safe baby boxes located in San Antonio if someone delivers a child they do not want. “Baby Boxes” legal soon in the State of Texas.

 

[DoctorRose]

Imo She’s been through more trauma than I can imagine already and she needs professional help and care. I hope whatever her punishment is could be served in mental health treatment/ rehab instead.

 

[jennytrevor]

It seems that this death is similar to a trend in Texas. Not quite the same as abandoning in a trash bin but not too far off. Women in TX, including the mother in this case, are often not aware of their options or may be too desperate/dissociated from the situation to use them. Only time will tell what this mother’s motivations were.

Article is a free Washington Post article about abandoned Texas babies in dumpsters and the lack of education/funding for awareness of options.

https://archive.ph/xnXMd

 

[borndem]

agree, the only thing she apparently did do (try to force the baby down the toilet drain, hence the head injuries to noted) suggests she had no interest in whether the child was alive or not. She wanted it gone. MOO

Yep.
At least she has been arrested. <sigh>
Wondering if she had other children and just left them behind, and if so, would she tell LE where.
Also wondering if she already has a record which might help LE find more info.
Another sad, sad situation.

 

[daybreaking]

I don't think any woman would go voluntarily go through labor alone and unmedicated in a fast food bathroom by choice.

If she was intentionally trying to conceal the birth, she wouldn't be giving birth in public.

There's some combination of serious poverty and mental illness at play here, and she didn't necessarily even know that she was pregnant.

The news article says that she was in the stall from 2PM - 4PM, and made "alarming noises".

Yet the staff didn't call an ambulance - They called the police afterwards. Had they called an ambulance, then it's possible that she would have miscarried at a hospital instead.

For those of you that are saying things about finding a better solution to the problem than flushing it, or attributing some advanced scheming to avoid a drug test or similar - I can say with complete certainty that a woman miscarrying may not be able to call an ambulance for herself, and may not be functional after going through labor unexpectedly.

Part of committing a crime is having the intent, and the ability to decide to do so.

 

[Tower]

I don't think any woman would go voluntarily go through labor alone and unmedicated in a fast food bathroom by choice.

If she was intentionally trying to conceal the birth, she wouldn't be giving birth in public.

There's some combination of serious poverty and mental illness at play here, and she didn't necessarily even know that she was pregnant.

The news article says that she was in the stall from 2PM - 4PM, and made "alarming noises".

Yet the staff didn't call an ambulance - They called the police afterwards. Had they called an ambulance, then it's possible that she would have miscarried at a hospital instead.

For those of you that are saying things about finding a better solution to the problem than flushing it, or attributing some advanced scheming to avoid a drug test or similar - I can say with complete certainty that a woman miscarrying may not be able to call an ambulance for herself, and may not be functional after going through labor unexpectedly.

Part of committing a crime is having the intent, and the ability to decide to do so.

You are a kind person. I appreciate how you view the world and the kindness with which you view this mother. I think it’s equally possible that she was trying to hide her delivery, hoped she could escape the situation and her “problem” would just go away. But I like your compassionate version much better.

 

[Stunned]

I'm surprised the fetus was still En Caul after she was supposedly forcing it down the toilet.

 

[mickey2942]

Yep.
At least she has been arrested. <sigh>
Wondering if she had other children and just left them behind, and if so, would she tell LE where.
Also wondering if she already has a record which might help LE find more info.
Another sad, sad situation.

I was wondering if she was avoiding a hospital due to testing positive for drugs. Even with a miscarriage, women can be charged for drug use, abuse of baby in utero.

A lot of women who are addicts, have home births, as they are afraid of being charged, especially if they are already on parole or probation.

 

[MissMalowe]

Not wanting to be argumentative or split hairs, but not wanting misinformation based on the little we do know to be repeated or misunderstood either. This was not a miscarriage. Miscarriages occur prior to 20 weeks gestation and are considered to have basically 0% viability.

What we are discussing here in this case is either a stillbirth (fetal demise in utero or during childbirth) or preterm labor which resulted in a premature live birth at 28 weeks. At this point, no further info has been released in terms of autopsy results and/or whether they were able to determine if the baby was stillborn or born alive. It may also be worth noting that at 28 weeks, survival rates are at least 80%, with some studies, such as one at Duke University reporting a 94% survival rate of babies born at 28 weeks. So if one goes to the hospital and receives care at that stage, the outcomes are surprisingly good. I also attempted to look up numbers/percentages for the ability to stop preterm labor with medical interventions, but could only find a lot of info about the standard methods/medicines used to treat preterm labor, not really exact percentages as far as success rates to term or how long (on average) it was able to be delayed but perhaps I just didn't dig enough because I can't imagine there hasn't been studies/reports on that with more detailed data.

Survival Rates NIH
Survival Rates Duke
Stillbirth

Also of note, slightly off topic perhaps but may be interesting and/or shocking to some; Despite the most healthcare spending, having some of the highest ranked hospitals, and the top medical schools in the world, the US has the highest infant and maternal mortality rates compared to any other high-income countries.

AJMC
USNews Universities
Newsweek Hospitals

 

[borndem]

I was wondering if she was avoiding a hospital due to testing positive for drugs. Even with a miscarriage, women can be charged for drug use, abuse of baby in utero.

A lot of women who are addicts, have home births, as they are afraid of being charged, especially if they are already on parole or probation.

Good point.