TY says that Terri seemed "defensive."

[eyes4crime]

Most news sources follow a manual of style. Don't know what this one uses, but this site cites how The Chicago Manual of Style (a prime authority)says elipses are used:

For example, The Chicago Manual of Style states, “Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty.” The Manual contrasts ellipses with dashes, which it states should be reserved for more confident and decisive pauses.


http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ellipsis.aspx

They may also be used to indicate an omission, but the omission may not change the meaning of the original sentence. That use is pretty rare in journalism. Usually journalists use other devices, like interrupting with something like, "He went on to say _________."
I've never seen a news article use elipses to indicate an omission of words.

ETA I stand corrected by Kat010, who has much better credentials to address issues of journalistic style!

As always - thank you STEADFAST! :blowkiss:

 

[AnaTeresa]

Oh no, I'm not trying to correct - I'm trying to understand. I see those dot.dot.dot.'s everywhere in media writeups and always thought they meant omission of words. I've since learned better. Thank you.

I also thought they were omissions - it's standard practice in writing term papers for my undergraduate program and memos for law school that the ellipses signified that some text was cut. I didn't know journalism went by a different standard. Thanks!

 

[Kat010]

Eyes4Crime, thanks for the nice comment and the help with BBM. Whew!

FYI, the Chicago Manual of Style sometimes differs from AP style guide. And, in various newsrooms, the editor you work for rules, as does the company's style guide!

Steadfast, thank you. Yes, the Wiki quote does reflect CMOS.

I really didn't want to bore folks with minute technicalities that only writing nerds like me are inn love with. But just a note: as I said, I'm old school journalist,trained by excellent editors. But styles will change. For example, many new style books don't allow the insertion of an ellipsis at the front of a truncated quote; although some still do.

The key thing with an ellipsis is the integrity of signaling the reader that this quote is not a full quote. The ellipsis can be used in cases of incomplete thought, yes (in which case I'd add a clarifier such as "she trailed off as she began crying), or a reporter edit of a quote.

My personal issue is with TV/radio (which often is rip 'n read from AP, but that's another topic!) in which the on-camera journalist says "He said that" and you have no clue if you're getting a full quote, a partial quote, or the journalist's rephrasing through his/her own filter. Ahem.

BTW, I've written a moderator to alert her that although I am *not* registered as an "expert" here--and had no intention of doing that--because I did offer up a professional opinion, I'm also offering up my CV.

And have done so,promptly.

 

[cluciano63]

While I believe the above to be true and correct, I have not seen too many media outlet reporters lately who could even construct a sentence properly so I never count on their using elements such as this correctly.

 

[Kat010]

Steadfast, thanks, but you didn't need correcting as the CMOS version is correct--just not the full story.

Interestingly enough, one law school has a website that adds yet another twist to the use of ellipsis in a legal setting. (Sorry, my anal-retentive side got loose.)

Key thing: an ellipsis tells you that this isn't a full, complete quote. My hope would be that if the reporter used a quote that wasn't complete because the speaker didn't complete it, he/she would signal that as well.

OK, now back to the topic, and thanks for reading and indulging my excessive perfectionism in terms of journalistic requirements and integrity. Hey, I almost went to jail once for protecting my integrity, and that of journalism, so it means something to me!

 

[MsFacetious]

I feel like the Youngs have been very patient and given TH the benefit of the doubt until it was obvious that there was no doubt she had a hand in it.

IMOO of course....

and a little OT, but my son just said the sweetest thing...

"Do you think we could call that lady, (Terri) and maybe I could talk to her and ask her nicely to let Kyron come home? His mom is really sad and I think she needs him."

*heart breaking*

Desiree has showed incredible self restraint. I reacted more strongly when a family member lied to me about what she FED my child while I was giving another child a breathing treatment. My child has food allergies and she started to have a reaction later. I couldn't do anything about it unless she fessed up to what she gave her. Some reactions just make her sick, some can kill her, it could have been a completely new reaction. It was kind of a big deal.

It ended up being a hamburger...not only is my child intolerant/allergic to gluten (bread), but she can't have hardly any protein (hamburger). Too much protein can kill her. She spent a week in the hospital, has never been left alone with that family member for even 30 seconds and I managed to not hurt anyone.

I was infuriated over THAT because of the blatant disregard for my child's well being. If my kid was MISSING and I thought that person knew where she was?? I cannot even imagine being capable of holding myself back. :banghead:

Also a little OT:

My kids don't know what actually happens in these cases...why these kids are on TV, but they know WHO Caylee, Haleigh and Kyron are.

HLN came on earlier and they started talking about Caylee. My 6 year old say "Caylee?!!!?? Mom, mom! They are finally back to Caylee! It's about time!"

Then she stopped and said:

"But, what about Kyron? He is really important right now."

I told her they will probably talk about Kyron later too. That memory again.... it has been at least a year since she heard anything about or saw Caylee's picture and instantly she remembered. :innocent:

 

[Barry]

OK, for the sake of argument, let's say TH is innocent. And therefore suppose that TH was NOT defensive about Kyron's disappearance, but because of whatever it was she was doing that day that she didn't want to admit to her family and the police.

Now she realizes she's suspected of kidnap and perhaps murder, at least by her family, and her baby has been taken from her based upon this suspicion.

Why wouldn't she admit what she was really doing the day Kyron vanished? Could it be WORSE than kidnap and murder of your own stepchild? I don't think anything is worse than that. So if there WAS something she was doing that day other than abducting Kyron - something secret that she didn't want to share - why wouldn't she just confess whatever it was as it would at least clear her of suspicion of murder?

Hi.

Presuming she is innocent:

Just thinking out loud. It could be something so bad that she feels it's in her best interest to hold out as long as possible. Let's say it was something like, say, having a sexual affair with a 14 year old boy (or something like that, just making a really bad thing up).

She would be balancing certain prison time versus the fact that she's innocent in any wrong doing with Kyron. It would then be best to keep her mouth shut as long as possible, and as long as she wouldn't be headed to prison for the thing she didn't do, perhaps even waiting until it went to court.

IMO, she can still be a bad person, self centered and rotten to the core, yet still not be responsible for Kyron. It could be a possibilty, IMO.

 

[Kat010]

While I believe the above to be true and correct, I have not seen too many media outlet reporters lately who could even construct a sentence properly so I never count on their using elements such as this correctly.

Oh yea. Don't start me on the state of current journalistic "standards." Most of the work I see would only get someone fired by the greatest, and toughest, editor I ever worked for.

Alas, I no longer have much credence in modern journalism unless I know the reporter or have read enough of his/her work to believe that he/she knows what they're doing and the responsibility they bear. I'm a dragon when it comes to all that.

 

[carbuff]

Hi.

Presuming she is innocent:

Just thinking out loud. It could be something so bad that she feels it's in her best interest to hold out as long as possible. Let's say it was something like, say, having a sexual affair with a 14 year old boy (or something like that, just making a really bad thing up).

She would be balancing certain prison time versus the fact that she's innocent in any wrong doing with Kyron. It would then be best to keep her mouth shut as long as possible, and as long as she wouldn't be headed to prison for the thing she didn't do, perhaps even waiting until it went to court.

IMO, she can still be a bad person, self centered and rotten to the core, yet still not be responsible for Kyron. It could be a possibilty, IMO.

BBM

I totally agree.

 

[KeyboardCat]

RBBM:

Well, I look at it like this. If I were in that position (of course I'd no doubt be innocent because I'd never dream of hurting my child or anyone else for that matter), I'd let anyone have basically anything they wanted, any piece of information they wanted, be in my house at any hour they wanted, anything if it helped get my child home. Not only that, but I'd be too panicked and upset and beside myself to even be able to think about being defensive! That, IMO, shows that Terri was (and still is, IMO) thinking of herself first, not Kyron. I think she was resenting the upcoming intrusion into her personal life because she had something to hide. What would be a good reason to resist an investigation into your stepson's disappearance? I can't think of one, honestly. JMO.

I completely agree. I can't imagine what secret would be worth continuing to hide causing me to seem evasive, defensive, uncooperative in light of a missing child.

I would freely admit to every shameful secret in my life. I wouldn't care. There would be nothing left of me worth hiding if my child was lost. I would have told them immediately: "There have been problems in my marriage. I even wanted my husband dead. I have had affairs. I have sent nasty pictures to everybody and their grandpa. I have even starred in adult movies with farm animals." The last one is a complete fabrication, but you get my drift. I wouldn't care what people thought about me. My life would be gone, no reason to hold anything back in an effort to retain my reputation once the ordeal was over.

I've said before that if I were in Terri's shoes I would forcefully enter every residence, structure, hut, office building, warehouse, factory, and cave in the entire country until I found him.

Maybe not everyone would react that way. Maybe its just me. I can't understand how any person can enter into this situation in a defensive stand point.

 

[shelbar53]

RBBM:

Well, I look at it like this. If I were in that position (of course I'd no doubt be innocent because I'd never dream of hurting my child or anyone else for that matter), I'd let anyone have basically anything they wanted, any piece of information they wanted, be in my house at any hour they wanted, anything if it helped get my child home. Not only that, but I'd be too panicked and upset and beside myself to even be able to think about being defensive! That, IMO, shows that Terri was (and still is, IMO) thinking of herself first, not Kyron. I think she was resenting the upcoming intrusion into her personal life because she had something to hide. What would be a good reason to resist an investigation into your stepson's disappearance? I can't think of one, honestly. JMO.

I agree


Darn, I didn't think I would be investigated but here goes... from 9-10 I was at the local crack house scoring some dugs and I had to pay by going to bed with 3 men and a woman, wasn't enough money so I robbed a house and a little old lady. Good lord, that's not as bad as doing away with your child. I mean really ...what was so bad she couldn't tell LE her whereabouts. Hmm lets see, will kaine be madder if I was having an affair or had something to do with his missing son? What shall I tell LE, oh I know..I wont tell them anything...let them guess.

 

[STEADFAST]

Steadfast, thanks, but you didn't need correcting as the CMOS version is correct--just not the full story.

Interestingly enough, one law school has a website that adds yet another twist to the use of ellipsis in a legal setting. (Sorry, my anal-retentive side got loose.)

Key thing: an ellipsis tells you that this isn't a full, complete quote. My hope would be that if the reporter used a quote that wasn't complete because the speaker didn't complete it, he/she would signal that as well.

OK, now back to the topic, and thanks for reading and indulging my excessive perfectionism in terms of journalistic requirements and integrity. Hey, I almost went to jail once for protecting my integrity, and that of journalism, so it means something to me!

Hey, I totally agree with you on the point of what elipses should mean in a quotation. But I think the reporter was trying to indicate a hesitation in this particular case. I mean, could Tony have been so off topic in the middle of his sentence that the reporter left out a chunk of it? Especially at a critical part of his utterance?
(BTW -- I never quibble with anyone's perfectionism in writing or analyzing writing; I'm an English professor.:dance: But I'm not a journalist -- different usage standards.)

 

[wondering1]

Oh no, I'm not trying to correct - I'm trying to understand. I see those dot.dot.dot.'s everywhere in media writeups and always thought they meant omission of words. I've since learned better. Thank you. :blowkiss:

Gotcha...fwiw, here's the video link. His words are at about -1:00-1:04. I think over use of the ... may be a symptom of technology. I use them constantly when I post and e-mail. I did it at the begining of THIS post w/o even noticing until now. lol

Can't find the kissy emoticon, but back 'atcha

http://www.kgw.com/home/Mom-thinks-Terri-Horman-plotted-Kyrons-disappearance-98430699.html

 

[xin]

Most news sources follow a manual of style. Don't know what this one uses, but this site cites how The Chicago Manual of Style (a prime authority)says elipses are used:

For example, The Chicago Manual of Style states, “Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty.” The Manual contrasts ellipses with dashes, which it states should be reserved for more confident and decisive pauses.


http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ellipsis.aspx

They may also be used to indicate an omission, but the omission may not change the meaning of the original sentence. That use is pretty rare in journalism. Usually journalists use other devices, like interrupting with something like, "He went on to say _________."
I've never seen a news article use elipses to indicate an omission of words.

ETA I stand corrected by Kat010, who has much better credentials to address issues of journalistic style!

Journalists follow the AP Stylebook. Some take a few liberties (NY times uses *Mr* in text for others than president and convicted felons!)

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Um I guess in the slight possiable part of my thinking if I were to think that TH was innocent and just lying due to other secrets that day or whatever. I would then have to process what could be worse then being accused of harming the very child you state that you love as if he was your own? I wouldn't want to burst out complaining...hey they are getting into my personal business..cause guess what, they are in everyone's personal business due to the fact they are in the BUSINESS of finding a missing endangered child!
I don't know about anyone else but call me a umm type of garden tool, lier, a snake, a bad wife, untrue friend..heck call me late to dinner, but never ever call me a child abuser. The point is there is nothing worth hiding to me when my stepson is missing. I would tell the truth. IMOO

 

[TxLady2]

Gotcha...fwiw, here's the video link. His words are at about -1:00-1:04. I think over use of the ... may be a symptom of technology. I use them constantly when I post and e-mail. I did it at the begining of THIS post w/o even noticing until now. lol

Can't find the kissy emoticon, but back 'atcha

http://www.kgw.com/home/Mom-thinks-Terri-Horman-plotted-Kyrons-disappearance-98430699.html

Yeah... I do it too... all the time... just so a particular point will stand out.
I never took a course in journalism, only have a HS edcuation, but some of the stuff I read these days would make my senior English teacher turn over in her grave. Or do backflips, probably.

 

[sixnsolid]

I think a lot happened those first few days after Kyron was missing. I think there may have been accusations flying and years of gloves coming off. I can't help but wonder if the first D heard of TH's DUI and child endangerment charge (please correct me if I'm calling it the wrong thing) was that week. If there were real explosions it could certainly explain a defensive posture - obviously even more so if TH had true reason to be guilty. That said, I also agree with many of the previous posters - nothing I could have been doing could make me wish to save face so much I would withhold or skew info that could assist with finding my child.

Thank you all for the fascinating ellipsis discussion. My little brain grew by leaps and bounds :clap:

 

[sorrell skye]

I remember her saying he was practicing with it in the back yard in anticipation of using it soon.

Later she, or someone said he was so afraid of not being able to find his house that he wouldn't go into the back yard, only the front. IIRC


On topic.

I wonder why, as with the unclear (seemingly) alibi, why she wouldn't bother to at least fake not being bothered for awhile. If guilty, you would think she would expect to be investigated and be ready for that, at least at the beginning.

bbm

"He always stays very close to his house in the front because he's afraid of not being able to find his house," she [DY] said.

http://www.kval.com/news/97225889.html

I couldn't find any mention at the above link of K not going in the backyard. Just that he was afraid of not being able to find his house when he was out front, so he stays close.

link: http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003903-87.html?tag=page;next

IMO, the above photo looks like Ky playing with his fishing pole in the backyard.

Just trying to keep the rumors at bay.

 

[Cher352]

So how does a person who is telling the truth get so many people convinced that she's lying? If the police were able to check her story and it all matched, would they let the family continue their allegations against an innocent person?

IIRC there were at least 2 desclaimers by LE, both were issued just after 2 of the PCs by these 3.

 

[Cher352]

She can be telling lies and still not be guilty of causing Kyron's disappearance. She could have begun processing just how well laid out (no bad pun intended) her trail of affairs would be, how they could see that maybe she was hooking up that afternoon and not doing what she said she was, and and and and.........and still not have caused Kyron's disappearance.

I see what you are saying, like what if she was hooking up with someone who lived on the island and didn't want to admit it for fear that it would make her look worse, so she lies about the pings there.