I think those tattoos could also be because they were possibly sex workers, since both of those fruits have sexual connotations...which also aligns with LISK's MO.Another thing that I'm struck by with both Cherries and Peaches is these fruit tattoos. Tattoos back in each respective timeframe ('97, '07) didn't enjoy the explosive popularity they have today, although the popularity was there and growing back then. But I don't think people went and got tattoos as much just for pure whimsy back then. I can't help but wonder about how I think of slot machines when I look at these tattoos, the cherries and the peaches. So I checked to see where people in NYC/LI would have gone for slot gambling back in these timeframes. I wondered if maybe one or both of these girls might have held some job where slot machine gambling was relevant. The answer for NYC & LI'ders on where you'd go for slots would be nowhere. From what I read, it didn't exist except illegally in NYC or LI at the time (illegally with the mob). So if you wanted to play slots back around this '97 timeframe, I guess (based on what I'm seeing) you went to Connecticut. First I guess came Foxwoods in Ledyard and then Connecticut's second casino, Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, opened in '96. These are a hefty 2-hour drive from Masspequa, but I still find it interesting in light of the fact that Connecticut is supposedly where Peaches got her tattoo. The situation with Cherries would be especially interesting in light of this gambling aspect (if it exists, and totally agreed, that's a mighty big "if") because the Empire City Casino in Yonkers (VERY near where Cherries was found) had just opened in October 2006. And people from Queens, LI and beyond flocked there. Heuermann definitely enjoys Atlantic City, so I'd say he enjoys at least some gambling. Maureen Brainard-Barnes once worked as a dealer at Foxwoods.
It's far-fetched, granted, but I can't help but wonder.
Shannan Gilbert also had a cherries tattoo. I know she’s not really a part of the other cold cases but it’s a little food for thought. Also, given that Jessica’s arm is still missing, I wonder if she had another tattoo? Do you think the G4 had tattoos? If so, did Rex mutilate then? I’ve never read about any of their possible tattoos.Another thing that I'm struck by with both Cherries and Peaches is these fruit tattoos. Tattoos back in each respective timeframe ('97, '07) didn't enjoy the explosive popularity they have today, although the popularity was there and growing back then. But I don't think people went and got tattoos as much just for pure whimsy back then. I can't help but wonder about how I think of slot machines when I look at these tattoos, the cherries and the peaches. So I checked to see where people in NYC/LI would have gone for slot gambling back in these timeframes. I wondered if maybe one or both of these girls might have held some job where slot machine gambling was relevant. The answer for NYC & LI'ders on where you'd go for slots would be nowhere. From what I read, it didn't exist except illegally in NYC or LI at the time (illegally with the mob). So if you wanted to play slots back around this '97 timeframe, I guess (based on what I'm seeing) you went to Connecticut. First I guess came Foxwoods in Ledyard and then Connecticut's second casino, Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, opened in '96. These are a hefty 2-hour drive from Masspequa, but I still find it interesting in light of the fact that Connecticut is supposedly where Peaches got her tattoo. The situation with Cherries would be especially interesting in light of this gambling aspect (if it exists, and totally agreed, that's a mighty big "if") because the Empire City Casino in Yonkers (VERY near where Cherries was found) had just opened in October 2006. And people from Queens, LI and beyond flocked there. Heuermann definitely enjoys Atlantic City, so I'd say he enjoys at least some gambling. Maureen Brainard-Barnes once worked as a dealer at Foxwoods.
It's far-fetched, granted, but I can't help but wonder.
How can you know that for certain? They were skeletons?Rex only mutilated/obscured tattoos on the victims that he dumped in Manorville (2000-2003). He began doing this after the police published a photo of Peaches' tattoo in Newsday (1997). Basically, he was worried that the police would use these tattoos to identify the victim.
Rex didn't need to mutilate any tattoos on the Gilgo Four because he dumped them whole in the same area where he had already dumped the earlier victims' identifying remains. Ocean Parkway was the "key" to his crimes. If they found that dump site, then tattoos, etc., were the least of his worries.
We have no idea if he mutilated many of the GB4, as at least Maureen and Melissa would have most likely been skeletal.Rex only mutilated/obscured tattoos on the victims that he dumped in Manorville (2000-2003). He began doing this after the police published a photo of Peaches' tattoo in Newsday (1997). Basically, he was worried that the police would use these tattoos to identify the victim.
Rex didn't need to mutilate any tattoos on the Gilgo Four because he dumped them whole in the same area where he had already dumped the earlier victims' identifying remains. Ocean Parkway was the "key" to his crimes. If they found that dump site, then tattoos, etc., were the least of his worries.
From what I have read, they were all skeletal… but in a way that the police questioned whether they were stripped of flesh or just the salty windy environment sped up decomposition. I think a lot of body detail is being withheld from the public for now. MOOWe have no idea if he mutilated many of the GB4, as at least Maureen and Melissa would have most likely been skeletal.
MOO
Dave Schaller helped to identify Amber via her tattoo. He didn't mention anything about mutilation. From Rex's perspective, it would make very little sense for him mutilate their tattoos. He was leaving behind whole bodies (fingerprints, dental records) in an area where he had also previously dumped other identifying remains.We have no idea if he mutilated many of the GB4, as at least Maureen and Melissa would have most likely been skeletal.
MOO
Amber's body would not have been skeletal. She'd been there the least amount of time, just a couple of months. Megan, likewise, had only been there five months. Her decomposition would have been severe, but depending on how it had progressed, tattooing might be visible on intact sections.Dave Schaller helped to identify Amber via her tattoo. He didn't mention anything about mutilation. From Rex's perspective, it would make very little sense for him mutilate their tattoos. He was leaving behind whole bodies (fingerprints, dental records) in an area where he had also previously dumped other identifying remains.
I have a different view on this. After the early 2000s, everyone, because of CSI and Forensic Files, knew about the power of the developing power of DNA. Knew that they were able to get better and faster results from smaller or degraded samples for much cheaper, much faster, than ever before.I can't edit my previous comment. The dismemberment and mutilation process, etc., was largely due to the fashion in which he had to pick up his earlier victims. He was a regular john. A frequent flier. Some of the girls around the red light districts in Manhattan would have known him by whatever alias he used, his vehicle, and possibly even his house if he had picked them up before. There was always a chance that someone would identify him as the last client to pick up victim X or Y. To prevent this, he took various steps to hinder their identification. If the police don't have a victim's identity, then they can't speak to potential witnesses.
The Gilgo Four was different, as he had more control over how they communicated (burners) and where he picked them up. He didn't need to dismember them or mutilate tattoos.
The public was indeed becoming more aware about forensic science and DNA. To be honest, the change in MO was likely due to a number of factors. I highly doubt that he made such an important decision based on one singular thing. Like most humans facing a big change, he weighed everything up. But he did have to approach the earlier victims on the street, and he couldn't get around that part until the sex industry moved online.I have a different view on this. After the early 2000s, everyone, because of CSI and Forensic Files, knew about the power of the developing power of DNA. Knew that they were able to get better and faster results from smaller or degraded samples for much cheaper, much faster, than ever before.
I think RH originally dismembered to hinder identification and for ease of transportation. He either damaged areas with tattoos, or if they were on the calf or forearms, just removed that limb a little higher to take off the image.
With the common knowledge of DNA, dismemberment and removing identifying marks, heads and hands was no longer enough. So he started depositing bodies whole, on the stretch of shoreline where the dismembered parts of his earlier victims were never found.
MOO
Cherries was killed a few months before Maureen. If Cherries was indeed a RH victim, then she marks a point of transition between dismembered victims and intact victims, or a period where maybe he was doing both. If Asian Doe was his victim, which I strongly believe they are, then they date from earlier, and they were left intact.The public was indeed becoming more aware about forensic science and DNA. To be honest, the change in MO was likely due to a number of factors. I highly doubt that he made such an important decision based on one singular thing. Like most humans facing a big change, he weighed everything up. But he did have to approach the earlier victims on the street, and he couldn't get around that part until the sex industry moved online.
I had the same thought…. Like he wasn’t trying to hide identities…. But given they weren’t found promptly, it still made me wonder. Guess they were able to identify parts of the skin.Dave Schaller helped to identify Amber via her tattoo. He didn't mention anything about mutilation. From Rex's perspective, it would make very little sense for him mutilate their tattoos. He was leaving behind whole bodies (fingerprints, dental records) in an area where he had also previously dumped other identifying remains.
Exactly, agreed. If he felt secure enough in his "dump site" remaining undiscovered, I don't think he cared. And it might have remained undiscovered but for Shannan Gilbert, so he seems to have been quite shrewd in that he correctly predicted Gilgo/general area with Ocean Parkway was "secure." I don't think that was his only "dump site," though. I think he very well may have continued to dismember when the circumstances warranted it. He worked as a young man at those beaches along Ocean Parkway, he knew that area, and knew it well, probably like the back of his hand, so to speak. He didn't know everywhere he murdered so well, however, MOO. And he assessed and adapted.I had the same thought…. Like he wasn’t trying to hide identities…. But given they weren’t found promptly, it still made me wonder. Guess they were able to identify parts of the skin.
Agreed. IMO, he "switches things up" and it was to his great advantage that he was able to do so. He knew Ocean Parkway because he'd worked those beaches as a young man. He didn't know literally everywhere. But there's no way I think he could restrain himself from murdering in circumstances that fell outside the narrow parameters of victims where Ocean Parkway would be a feasible "DS." We already know cases where he didn't, but we don't yet know all cases where he didn't, MOO. So he couldn't know "everywhere," but there's no way I think he could restrain himself from entertaining the thought of murdering anywhere he went, jmo.Cherries was killed a few months before Maureen. If Cherries was indeed a RH victim, then she marks a point of transition between dismembered victims and intact victims, or a period where maybe he was doing both. If Asian Doe was his victim, which I strongly believe they are, then they date from earlier, and they were left intact.
MOO
I could buy that he adapted and changed things up. There is a huge piece of the puzzle that none of us may ever know and simply, only speculate on. How did he choose his victims? We know small, pretty, desperate… but that could be any sex worker, really. There was more to it. We know he killed Amber because she pissed him off. No way he went to her house as a John then decided to take her to his house and kill her…. Originally. It just happened that way. But what if he chose every victim for a similar reason that we just don’t know about? Or… she was just an anomaly and he normally chose for a different reason. Many serial killers have some sort of weird childhood trauma that drives them to do what they do. Many have mother issues. I think Rex’s mom moved out around the time he killed Sandra. And I think she moved out around the same time as his first wife. Maybe I’m wrong on this timeline but I think that’s similar to what I have read.Exactly, agreed. If he felt secure enough in his "dump site" remaining undiscovered, I don't think he cared. And it might have remained undiscovered but for Shannan Gilbert, so he seems to have been quite shrewd in that he correctly predicted Gilgo/general area with Ocean Parkway was "secure." I don't think that was his only "dump site," though. I think he very well may have continued to dismember when the circumstances warranted it. He worked as a young man at those beaches along Ocean Parkway, he knew that area, and knew it well, probably like the back of his hand, so to speak. He didn't know everywhere he murdered so well, however, MOO. And he assessed and adapted.
Sandra Costilla was posed and left whole. Fingerprints were used to identify her. As clever as he is, I would imagine he knew already at that time LE might be able to identify her, but he didn't much care. And in the end, they could establish no link to him, and I don't think that's a coincidence, I think he already had assessed the situation and knew LE would find no link. I like the idea put forward that this dovetails with him understanding the risks involved as his methods of contacting his victims changed, the idea that he understood the dangers of leaving a digital trail. (JMO, but I feel he'd perhaps fear the digital dangers even more than potential sightings picking up someone in the street.) But I still return to the idea of him murdering Amber after someone actually saw him leaving with her; he left that belt with Maureen; and he was using victim phones to contact victims' family and friends. And if you believe Nikkie Brass, he had no problem trying to get her into his car to do heaven only knows what despite just having left a restaurant with her. He's comfortable taking risks, and he's clearly fueled by uncontrollable hate. So would he be able to hold that in check and "only" murder when he could use his "safe" Ocean Parkway "DS" he created? I strongly, strongly tend to doubt that. And jmo, he adapted in every case that deparated from that, and I think plenty of cases did.
Agreed. IMO, he "switches things up" and it was to his great advantage that he was able to do so. He knew Ocean Parkway because he'd worked those beaches as a young man. He didn't know literally everywhere. But there's no way I think he could restrain himself from murdering in circumstances that fell outside the narrow parameters of victims where Ocean Parkway would be a feasible "DS." We already know cases where he didn't, but we don't yet know all cases where he didn't, MOO. So he couldn't know "everywhere," but there's no way I think he could restrain himself from entertaining the thought of murdering anywhere he went, jmo.
So like others, I can't help but wonder if he might have gotten Cherries, too, and to me, it looks quite possible.
Agreed, I think he couldn't control himself with Amber, he's got inferiority complex (jmo) and they triggered him, and he literally couldn't restrain himself. Everyone had better respect Rex-- or else. I'm sure it wasn't the first time he couldn't restrain himself, and I bet he's made mistakes before and got lucky, but his luck has run out and I'm thinking they'll find more victims where he made similar mistakes because he was unable to control himself. & they'll now be able to link him, although perhaps not formally charge him.I could buy that he adapted and changed things up. There is a huge piece of the puzzle that none of us may ever know and simply, only speculate on. How did he choose his victims? We know small, pretty, desperate… but that could be any sex worker, really. There was more to it. We know he killed Amber because she pissed him off. No way he went to her house as a John then decided to take her to his house and kill her…. Originally. It just happened that way. But what if he chose every victim for a similar reason that we just don’t know about? Or… she was just an anomaly and he normally chose for a different reason. Many serial killers have some sort of weird childhood trauma that drives them to do what they do. Many have mother issues. I think Rex’s mom moved out around the time he killed Sandra. And I think she moved out around the same time as his first wife. Maybe I’m wrong on this timeline but I think that’s similar to what I have read.
Why did he get a divorce? Why did mom leave? Was that the final straw? Or was he killing before and just became more dramatic?
I think there is a clear link to his dump sites. He knew oak beach because he worked there and isn’t manorville near his hunting lodge? I wonder why he chose North Sea for Sandra? What other areas did he frequent for at least some part of his life? I’m thinking just Long Island for now. If he is linked to crimes outside of there, I think it’s possible he could have killed anywhere he spent time. All this MOO of course..