UK - 22 dead in explosion at Ariana Grande gig, Manchester, 22 May 2017 #1

[dotr]

http://time.com/4790753/manchester-attack-ariana-grande-girlhood/

[h=1]Why The Manchester Attack Was an Attack on Girlhood[/h]


Charlotte Alter

Terror attacks are intended to sow fear far beyond where they happen, to force people to think twice about doing what was once routine. But the places terrorists choose to strike can have specific meaning, too: the symbolic landmarks targeted on 9/11, the cosmopolitan culture of Paris' 10th and 11th arrondissements. Now, that grim list includes a concert hall in Manchester filled with young girls with cat ears stretched across their heads.

It was a blow delivered at a moment of budding independence, to young girls taking their first, carefree steps toward becoming empowered women."Music is one of the first ways that kids seek to express themselves in ways that is not directly related to their parents," says Caitlin White, managing editor of music for Uproxx. "It's one of the first acts of yourself, and being able to share that self with your friends, you're creating a social experience that’s outside of your family for your first time."

 

[K_Z]

Something that has been glossed over in the coverage today are the numerous early comments with and without the killer’s name, that said he was “known to security authorities.” I think that’s a critical issue to probe, and I think the public deserves much more information about this at some point.

WHY the killer was “known” to UK LE authorities—I think this is very important to understanding what has happened here, and when the killer became radicalized.

Was he involved with others who were being monitored for radicalization or terroristic plots? Had he committed other crimes? We already know he was displaying erratic religious behavior (loud chanting in the streets of his neighborhood). Was his wearing of traditional Islamic dress a NEW behavior, or had he done this for years? Did his behavior change when his father left the country? He was enrolled in college—but was he ACTUALLY attending classes? Participating in his classes? Doing the tests and assignments? In several other terrorist attacks, a severe and abrupt drop in college attendance and performance accompanied radicalization, just before the terrorist acted out.

We also know that he was living in an area that already had radicalized youth—the 2 sisters in 2015 who went to high school with his sister, and then left to join ISIS. As has happened in other terrorist attacks, it appears to me that there were signs of his radicalization, and presumably these went unaddressed.

IMO, this is not a random act of violence, and it is not mental illness. He had to have help, to put together a suicide vest of that magnitude-- it's not a simple thing, and the explosives are quite volatile. I reject any suggestion that this particular radical islamic terrorist is a lone wolf.

 

[gitana1]

I was just watching her poor parents still desperately hoping and searching for her. So hard to watch. Olivia Campbell, 15. Lovely. Precious:

"RIP my darling precious gorgeous girl Olivia Campbell taken far far too soon go sing with the angels and keep smiling mummy loves you so much," Charlotte Campbell said the post on her Facebook page early Wednesday local time.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/23/europe/manchester-arena-missing-girl/index.html

 

[Jennifer17]

My college son is in the UK now on a school trip, he will be returning Saturday. I know London, where he is, is a ways from Manchester but this is just worrisome. Trying not to overthink this. We will be so glad when he is home.

Did anyone else see the ISIS statement calling the victims 'Crusaders'? Yeah that eight year old girl and the 18 year old med student were crusaders. Sick evil bastards.

I hope that your son is safe, but he would be more in danger from a shooter in the US than a bomb in London.

 

[crhedBngr]

My college son is in the UK now on a school trip, he will be returning Saturday. I know London, where he is, is a ways from Manchester but this is just worrisome. Trying not to overthink this. We will be so glad when he is home.

Did anyone else see the ISIS statement calling the victims 'Crusaders'? Yeah that eight year old girl and the 18 year old med student were crusaders. Sick evil bastards.

Thoughts and prayers (if that's okay) going up for his safe return.

And, as other posters have indicated, please let us know when he returns.

 

[K_Z]

Mayor of London, September 2016:

Sadiq Khan: London mayor says terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html

I thoroughly reject that. This is, IMO, an excellent discussion of why we should all reject the idea that we have to "get used to" terror attacks:

[video=youtube;_KiSDKIvX4g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KiSDKIvX4g[/video]

 

[dotr]

Something that has been glossed over in the coverage today are the numerous early comments with and without the killer’s name, that said he was “known to security authorities.” I think that’s a critical issue to probe, and I think the public deserves much more information about this at some point.

WHY the killer was “known” to UK LE authorities—I think this is very important to understanding what has happened here, and when the killer became radicalized.

Was he involved with others who were being monitored for radicalization or terroristic plots? Had he committed other crimes? We already know he was displaying erratic religious behavior (loud chanting in the streets of his neighborhood). Was his wearing of traditional Islamic dress a NEW behavior, or had he done this for years? Did his behavior change when his father left the country? He was enrolled in college—but was he ACTUALLY attending classes? Participating in his classes? Doing the tests and assignments? In several other terrorist attacks, a severe and abrupt drop in college attendance and performance accompanied radicalization, just before the terrorist acted out.



We also know that he was living in an area that already had radicalized youth—the 2 sisters in 2015 who went to high school with his sister, and then left to join ISIS. As has happened in other terrorist attacks, it appears to me that there were signs of his radicalization, and presumably these went unaddressed.

IMO, this is not a random act of violence, and it is not mental illness. He had to have help, to put together a suicide vest of that magnitude-- it's not a simple thing, and the explosives are quite volatile. I reject any suggestion that this particular radical islamic terrorist is a lone wolf.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ma...said-have-had-ties-al-qaeda-terrorism-n763691

The U.S. intelligence official, who has direct knowledge of the investigation, said Abedi, whose family is of Libyan descent, was identified by a bank card found in his pocket at the scene of the explosion after an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena. The identification was confirmed by facial recognition technology, the official said.

Abedi had traveled to Libya within the last 12 months, one of multiple countries he had visited, the official said. And while he had "clear ties to al Qaeda," the official said, Abedi could have also had connections to other groups.


Members of his own family had even informed on him in the past, telling British authorities that he was dangerous, according to the intelligence official.
The U.S. official said Abedi's bomb was "big and sophisticated," using materials hard to obtain in Britain — meaning "it's almost impossible to see he didn't have help."

A spokesman for the University of Salford in Manchester told NBC News that Abedi enrolled there to study business management in September 2015. He re-enrolled last September, but he hadn't attended classes for several months, the spokesman said.

 

[K_Z]

Wow, dotr-- that is very illuminating. Thanks for that link.

So, the issue is not "we" who "must get used to" terrorist attacks.

The far more pressing issue is WHAT do we as a society "DO" when there are clear signs that radicalization is occurring? What do we do to come to some agreement in civilized western societies to intervene before a suicide bomber attacks a concert full of teenagers? Both at the citizen level, and the LE/ security level? HOW do we persuade citizens and politicians and leaders that we CAN intervene and prevent this mayhem?? How do we stamp out the caustic cancer of political correctness that allows this carnage to flourish?

Chicken or egg?

We CAN prevent these attacks, IMO, but we must be brave enough to talk very openly about WHO radicalizes, and WHY radicalization occurs. Every single citizen has to be part of the "fix".

I'm tired of just wringing my hands and grieving for the dead and their families.

I'm really, really, really tired of reading after the fact of an attack that gazillions of people "knew" something was wrong, but nothing made a difference.

We need effective strategies to treat radicalization like a deadly communicable disease, IMO.

I'm so very tired of the carnage. But I'm even more tired of people saying that *nothing* can be done to stop it. I reject that.

 

[creepcrusher]

Okay I am not surprised that the suicide bomber was known to LE. It seems like we hear this so many times. Something needs to change as far as when LE/FBI can step in after finding out someone is radicalized.

My sister was being harassed by a radical Islamist on Facebook because she is in charge of a church outreach that is not Muslim. She had no idea who he was. Somehow she ended up on his radar. He left her audio messages through Facebook,and one of them he hadn't known was being recorded. He was talking to another man about her. He said he was coming to her house.

We checked out his Facebook and through research found out he had two profiles. An American one, and the other one was in Arabic. He was from Pakistan and Iraq. Very disturbing photos of children holding machine guns and The Boston marathon bombing. He was making it look like a joke. It freaked her out. It freaked my whole family out.

She contacted the FBI and after they looked into him they told her they had already known about him. They were aware of his activities and put him on the "no fly list." She had to cancel all her social media and they told her to buy a gun. There wasn't much else they could do. The terrorists pretty much have to commit the crime before they can arrest them. Unless citizens report everything they find suspicious, I don't know how they can be stopped. It's very frustrating.

 

[Fairy1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4535702/Liverpool-schoolgirl-5-victim-Manchester-attack.html

Olivia. Oh my, beautiful, wonderful girl. Such lovely people. Heartbreaking.

RIP all of you wonderful souls.

 

[zoryalilith]

How terrifying! [emoji33] I hope she, and the rest of your family, will be safe.

Okay I am not surprised that the suicide bomber was known to LE. It seems like we hear this so many times. Something needs to change as far as when LE/FBI can step in after finding out someone is radicalized.

My sister was being harassed by a radical Islamist on Facebook because she is in charge of a church outreach that is not Muslim. She had no idea who he was. Somehow she ended up on his radar. He left her audio messages through Facebook,and one of them he hadn't known was being recorded. He was talking to another man about her. He said he was coming to her house.

We checked out his Facebook and through research found out he had two profiles. An American one, and the other one was in Arabic. He was from Pakistan and Iraq. Very disturbing photos of children holding machine guns and The Boston marathon bombing. He was making it look like a joke. It freaked her out. It freaked my whole family out.

She contacted the FBI and after they looked into him they told her they had already known about him. They were aware of his activities and put him on the "no fly list." She had to cancel all her social media and they told her to buy a gun. There wasn't much else they could do. The terrorists pretty much have to commit the crime before they can arrest them. Unless citizens report everything they find suspicious, I don't know how they can be stopped. It's very frustrating.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[paul1980]

Little Saffie's face is staring out from most newspaper front pages.

 

[margarita25]

BBC Anchor Admits "Europe Has To Get Used To Bombings"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-23/bbc-anchor-admits-europe-has-get-used-bombings

Europe in 2017 has seen a terror attack every 9 days according to this link, see map.

Also,



""Europe is getting used to attacks like this...we have to because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out...*as ISIS gets squeezed in Syria and Iraq we're going to see more of these kinds of attacks taking place in Europe...*and Europe is starting to get used to that...""

 

[katydid23]

I hope that your son is safe, but he would be more in danger from a shooter in the US than a bomb in London.

I don't want this thread to close so I will self delete...

 

[creepcrusher]

How terrifying! [emoji33] I hope she, and the rest of your family, will be safe.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It was. This happened shortly after the Paris attacks. She has not heard from him since but we do know that he lives within ten minutes from the church where she runs the outreach. Such a helpless feeling when there's nothing they can do until something happens. Something needs to change imo.

 

[katydid23]

Mayor of London, September 2016:

Sadiq Khan: London mayor says terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city
=============================================================================================================

Of course the mayor says that. He needs everyone to accept it as the new norm.

 

[bluesneakers]

Is this really the time and place for partisan political anti-US slams? Give it a break for a bit, ok...

It's not a partisan political anti-US slam. It's a fact. Sometimes people are comforted by perspective. Like you're more likely to drown in your own tub than be killed by a shark. It can help with anxiety to remember what's true and real.

 

[creepcrusher]

I hope that your son is safe, but he would be more in danger from a shooter in the US than a bomb in London.

Delete. Read your post wrong.

 

[margarita25]

There's a great article somewhere I read about a woman who went undercover online as a possible isis recruit iirc...creepcrusher the story is similar, half asleep, marking spot to find and post tomorrow...

Foxfire tal I ed a lot about the ISIS online recruitment process. I actually sent him an article about the heavy duty codes they operate behind...zzzz

 

[margarita25]

Let's keep this thread open please...zzzzz