UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #6

[catgreen]

CP is no different to me than first degree murder.

ETA, and I think it is sick that our society does not see it the same way.

I find your equivalence between murder and watching something on a screen disturbing; I would never condone people watching child at all but it is hardly the same level of criminality.
Imagine you had a son (or daughter) and when he was 16 he was looking at sexual images online and out of curiosity looked at some illegal material, it was a passive act but the police were monitoring the site and next thing he was arrested. Are you seriously suggesting that in such circumstances you would give up on your otherwise well-adjusted son and throw away the key for life?

There is quite a lot of evidence that sex offenders (especially non-contact offenders) can be successfully rehabilitated. I don't think that life is anything like as black and white as you suggest and I am relieved that 'our society does not see it in the same way'.

 

[Yenriac]

No matter how much I've read and mulled over this case (and I do believe he is guilty) part of me still feels sorry for him. I know that isn't a popular consensus here, understandably so, and the major sympathy should lie with Alesha and her family but I just think it's a tragic situation that he's only 16 and he's thrown his entire life away by committing such a brutal act. It's his own fault but it still saddens me and it could have been very different. It's weird.

I agree. Totally understand this.

 

[Bampot]

Does anyone know what we can expect at the sentence hearing? We get the sentence obviously but does the judge explain how he came to his decision? Do we hear about the background reports?

 

[Yenriac]

Does anyone know what we can expect at the sentence hearing? We get the sentence obviously but does the judge explain how he came to his decision? Do we hear about the background reports?

The judge will make a sentencing statement. I'm not sure we'll hear anything of background reports during that statement though, the judge may refer to them during the statement. I don't think we'll get any detail on them.

 

[Sleuthdolf]

And if Alesha was lying awake and heard someone opening the outside door, she may well have been excited rather than afraid, thinking it was her nice uncle or some other friend or relative who was used to entering the house unannounced. She might have tiptoed excitedly out of bed into the hall to greet them and maybe even recognised AC as a trusted friend of people she knew from the dance school. He may never have even entered the house but simply stood smiling at the doorstep with his finger in front of his lips and beckoning her out to play.

She is said to have liked trampolines. He may even have already promised her a shot one day. Who knows? Anyway, he certainly sounded smug about how it was done.

I feel this could be very close to what happened. Only he knows and I don't think we will ever know. If the court release more information it may help us here form a plan/image of how he got her out. I think the CCTV of him carrying her will help in determine what state she was in at that point.

I only feel sorry for him because he wasted his life. That's a tiny part of me. Otherwise he should never be let out. 117 injuries, rape, abuction, bragging about it, destroying TM's life and everybody else's lives. I could add more. Really don't see how anybody would want him in society. He is a cancerous little cretin who doesn't deserve another shot at life.

I find your equivalence between murder and watching something on a screen disturbing; I would never condone people watching child at all but it is hardly the same level of criminality.
Imagine you had a son (or daughter) and when he was 16 he was looking at sexual images online and out of curiosity looked at some illegal material, it was a passive act but the police were monitoring the site and next thing he was arrested. Are you seriously suggesting that in such circumstances you would give up on your otherwise well-adjusted son and throw away the key for life?

There is quite a lot of evidence that sex offenders (especially non-contact offenders) can be successfully rehabilitated. I don't think that life is anything like as black and white as you suggest and I am relieved that 'our society does not see it in the same way'.

I'd like to see the statistics on this, do you have them?

 

[catgreen]

I'd like to see the statistics on this, do you have them?

Not stats but for example....
New hope for sex offender treatment
Sex Offenders: General Information and Treatment
and
https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2014-12592-016.html

I should stress that I mentioned this in relation to the idea that watching child should merit a life sentence and I was thinking about non-contact, low risk individuals - not related to the extremely violent case here, which is obviously a totally different thing

 

[Eve71]

Yep I think this is how I feel too, he ruined a lot of people’s lives that night including his own.
I don’t think he realised this at the time though, I’m not sure if he could go back in time would he still do it and clean up better, or not do it at all?

He could of quite possibly got away with it even despite the DNA evidence. The Toni planted it story could of gave jurors a reasonable doubt, it was all the other evidence on top that really nailed the coffin for him. if he’d disposed of his clothes better, deleted the cctv, took the knife home instead of throwing it away, he might of got a not proven/not guilty. Scary to think about but it’s true.

I have no idea what what was going through his mind that night/morning but he must have had foresight into the devastation he’d cause. Maybe that was part of the motive, to cause ultimate hurt to Aleshas family? I doubt very much he regrets his crime, he’s shown no remorse (from what I’ve read) and his behaviour and attitude in court was said to be cocky and confident . His only regret is that he got caught and he’s quite possibly spent many months mulling over how he should have taken better care to cover his tracks. All JMO though.

Without the CCTV the prosecution would have had to work a tad harder but ultimately the DNA nailed him. The Toni fantasy was so ridiculously off the wall , I’m surprised it was used by the defence , ironically I believe that was the final nail
and by implicating her in such a ridiculous story which had no substance, he ultimately sealed his own fate. It’s also the main reason the judge decided to name him.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I've just seen that Scottish serial killer Angus Sinclair has died in prison. His first major crime was raping and killing a 7 year old girl when he was just 16. Anyway, I checked to see if we had a thread and noticed his name has come up a lot in Alesha's case. Who knows whether AC would have carried on to kill several others, like Sinclair did, if he'd got away with Alesha's murder. I suspect things would have escalated.

World's End serial killer Sinclair dies

 

[Eve71]

I pondered for ages over why he did not take the knife home especially as there was no knife injuries noted in the autopsy

I don’t think the knife was actually taken specifically for the crime. I guess, like many other teenagers involved in drugs, he was simply used to carrying a knife with him. I’ve read that he was known to do this and had even taken knives into school. Didn’t his mother state the two knives from the block had been missing sometime ? I think he had the knife on him when he entered the flat and may have used it to frighten Alesha into submission, then either dropped it or threw it away when he crossed the road to the shore . Being a large knife it would have been cumbersome to carry along with a child. It does beg the question what happened to the other missing knife and would he really be carrying two around with him ? Imo no knives were used to cause Aleshas injuries but something was and what it was has not been made public knowledge.

 

[Gardenista]

I find your equivalence between murder and watching something on a screen disturbing; I would never condone people watching child at all but it is hardly the same level of criminality.
Imagine you had a son (or daughter) and when he was 16 he was looking at sexual images online and out of curiosity looked at some illegal material, it was a passive act but the police were monitoring the site and next thing he was arrested. Are you seriously suggesting that in such circumstances you would give up on your otherwise well-adjusted son and throw away the key for life?

There is quite a lot of evidence that sex offenders (especially non-contact offenders) can be successfully rehabilitated. I don't think that life is anything like as black and white as you suggest and I am relieved that 'our society does not see it in the same way'.

Yes, I absolutely think there should be prison for life, I don't care who it is. Because the child who is being raped on the video my imaginary son would be watching deserves justice.

 

[Taskforce88]

I've just seen that Scottish serial killer Angus Sinclair has died in prison. His first major crime was raping and killing a 7 year old girl when he was just 16. Anyway, I checked to see if we had a thread and noticed his name has come up a lot in Alesha's case. Who knows whether AC would have carried on to kill several others, like Sinclair did, if he'd got away with Alesha's murder. I suspect things would have escalated.

World's End serial killer Sinclair dies

I believe so too.

 

[Sleuthdolf]

Not stats but for example....
New hope for sex offender treatment
Sex Offenders: General Information and Treatment
and
https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2014-12592-016.html

I should stress that I mentioned this in relation to the idea that watching child should merit a life sentence and I was thinking about non-contact, low risk individuals - not related to the extremely violent case here, which is obviously a totally different thing

Recidivism rates are 17.3% for untreated offenders and 9.9% for treated offenders based on the 2nd article. So, hypothetically if there are 100,000 offenders, untreated recidivism is 17,300 and treated is 9,900. It doesn't show the categories the offended are in. For the 7,400 who haven't reoffended there is a possibilty they have since gone on to reoffend. People learn from their mistakes and they hide it better or they don't continue.

I'm sure there are plenty who don't continue the cycle but I'd rather not take the chance. The sexual preference is always going to be there. The only way I would treat them if they were allowed out is to electronically tag them and keep them in contained areas away from children.

This is all my opinion. I don't think I'm a genius but I am a very protective father and human being when it comes to others.

 

[Kiranerys]

Yep I think this is how I feel too, he ruined a lot of people’s lives that night including his own.
I don’t think he realised this at the time though, I’m not sure if he could go back in time would he still do it and clean up better, or not do it at all?

He could of quite possibly got away with it even despite the DNA evidence. The Toni planted it story could of gave jurors a reasonable doubt, it was all the other evidence on top that really nailed the coffin for him. if he’d disposed of his clothes better, deleted the cctv, took the knife home instead of throwing it away, he might of got a not proven/not guilty. Scary to think about but it’s true.

I am inclined to think he would've still done it,just covered his tracks better unfortunately

 

[Eve71]

The judge will make a sentencing statement. I'm not sure we'll hear anything of background reports during that statement though, the judge may refer to them during the statement. I don't think we'll get any detail on them.

I think the same. There may be titbits leaked by the press but I doubt we will hear much more than what’s already out there. I expect he’ll get the maximum sentence the judge can possibly give. I can’t see lord Matthews being lenient, he made his feelings quite clear in court.

 

[Yenriac]

I think the same. There may be titbits leaked by the press but I doubt we will hear much more than what’s already out there. I expect he’ll get the maximum sentence the judge can possibly give. I can’t see lord Matthews being lenient, he made his feelings quite clear in court.

Lord Matthews isn't known for being lenient. Fingers crossed there is no change from his normal.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

No news on the sentencing? I thought it was today, no idea how it all works tho. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Bampot]

No news on the sentencing? I thought it was today, no idea how it all works tho. Can someone enlighten me?

Sentencing is 21st March

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Sentencing is 21st March

Ah thanks, I had it flagged as the 11th for some reason

 

[catgreen]

Recidivism rates are 17.3% for untreated offenders and 9.9% for treated offenders based on the 2nd article. So, hypothetically if there are 100,000 offenders, untreated recidivism is 17,300 and treated is 9,900. It doesn't show the categories the offended are in. For the 7,400 who haven't reoffended there is a possibilty they have since gone on to reoffend. People learn from their mistakes and they hide it better or they don't continue.

I'm sure there are plenty who don't continue the cycle but I'd rather not take the chance. The sexual preference is always going to be there. The only way I would treat them if they were allowed out is to electronically tag them and keep them in contained areas away from children.

This is all my opinion. I don't think I'm a genius but I am a very protective father and human being when it comes to others.

Fair enough, I don't agree with you but I am also a protective mother, grandmother and human being (I was a health visitor for years and so do have first hand experience of abuse and of rehabilitation, and I think it is about accurately assessing risk)

 

[Ruthbullock]

We know from the trial he wanted to end his life that night, he has done. It is incredibly sad for all involved.