UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[dotr]

Dec 3, 2024 #crime #scotland #uknews
Andrew Wilson was four when he witnessed his father dying in the doorway of their family home after he was shot repeatedly by an unknown stranger.No one has ever been arrested over the murder and the family is now demanding Scotland’s most senior officer resigns for “incompetence”. Alistair’s son spoke exclusively with Sky's Connor Gillies in his first broadcast interview since the falling out with detectives.

 

[OzzaRozza]

I'm not sure I can follow the story that Alistair owed someone called Paul money. If you're a loan shark, murdering your debtor means you're never getting that money back. It's not like it'll be in a contract that gets taken on by the estate.

I think that there is another explaination for this murder, but we are yet to find it.

 

[davidt]

I'm not sure I can follow the story that Alistair owed someone called Paul money. If you're a loan shark, murdering your debtor means you're never getting that money back. It's not like it'll be in a contract that gets taken on by the estate.

I think that there is another explaination for this murder, but we are yet to find it.

Honestly I don't think anyone has a clue. Too many oddities and too much doesn't add up.

 

[touch]

I'm not sure I can follow the story that Alistair owed someone called Paul money. If you're a loan shark, murdering your debtor means you're never getting that money back. It's not like it'll be in a contract that gets taken on by the estate.

I think that there is another explaination for this murder, but we are yet to find it.

It could make sense for a loan shark to murder someone. If there's several other people who also owe money then murdering one of them is a good way to encourage the others to pay up.
Depending on how much money was owed and by how many people, it might have been a good business decision.

 

[davidt]

Scotland's top cold case expert leading hunt for Alastair Wilson's murderer

SCOTLAND’S leading cold case prosecutor is taking over the Alistair Wilson murder probe. Alex Prentice KC has the job of trying to lock up whoever gunned down the dad of two on his doorstep 20 year…

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

 

[trendsetter]

Scotland's top cold case expert leading hunt for Alastair Wilson's murderer

SCOTLAND’S leading cold case prosecutor is taking over the Alistair Wilson murder probe. Alex Prentice KC has the job of trying to lock up whoever gunned down the dad of two on his doorstep 20 year…

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

Bizarre bit from this story: "And that same year he convicted David Gilroy of the murder of former lover Suzanne Pilley. This was despite there being no forensic evidence and no proof a crime had even taken place."
Right - so we can prove that Gilroy murdered Pilley even though we can't prove that she was murdered." Explain that! Someone? Please?

 

[davidt]

Bizarre bit from this story: "And that same year he convicted David Gilroy of the murder of former lover Suzanne Pilley. This was despite there being no forensic evidence and no proof a crime had even taken place."
Right - so we can prove that Gilroy murdered Pilley even though we can't prove that she was murdered." Explain that! Someone? Please?

Didn't know anything about that case tbh. Just looked it up and it was a majority verdict based on circumstantial evidence. He still maintains his innocence.

 

[ZeroAlpha]

Scotland's First Minister John Swinney has met the family of banker Alistair Wilson whose murder has remained unsolved for 20 years.
Swinney meets family of murdered Nairn banker Alistair Wilson

Alistair Wilson's wife Veronica and son Andrew said they welcomed the meeting with the SNP first minister, and thanked Highlands and Islands Conservative MSP Douglas Ross for his help in arranging it.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Police Scotland Chief Constable Jo Farrell has refused to meet the family of murdered banker Alistair Wilson

Alistair Wilson was murdered at his home in Nairn in the Highlands on November 28 2004.

The family of a banker who was shot on the doorstep of his home more than two decades ago have expressed their “extreme disappointment” that Scotland’s most senior police officer has “refused” to meet with them

Family of murdered banker ‘disappointed’ at not meeting chief constable

Alistair Wilson was murdered at his home in Nairn in the Highlands on November 28 2004.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Are Police just fobbing off the Wilson family with their alleged reinvestigation into the case?

 

[ZeroAlpha]

I am not sure why the Chief Constable doesn't meet with the family

 

[janne]

Are Police just fobbing off the Wilson family with their alleged reinvestigation into the case?

It's a difficult one to say - Police Scotland have been very successful in prosecuting cold cases in the last few years (the Brenda Page, Renee & Andrew MacCrae and Caroline Glachan cases all spring to mind as successful reinvestigations).

That being said, there have been other cases where reinvestigations have simply felt like an effort to get a victim's family's to stop asking questions - the Stefan Sutherland case is probably the most troubling example of this in recent years.

 

[crazychris]

Just a thought but how do we know he gave the envelope back empty? He may have put what was requested inside after showing wife, yet was still shot.

 

[davidt]

Just a thought but how do we know he gave the envelope back empty? He may have put what was requested inside after showing wife, yet was still shot.

We know very little in truth. Everything comes from one source, AWs wife. We have to assume she has given a honest, accurate and truthful account as there is no other corroboration.

The official line is that on the conclusion of the first conversation AW returned inside with an envelope. The colour and size has varied in reports over the years. The envelope had PAUL written on the back of it. I don't think the police have ever stated specifically one way or the other if the envelope had anything else written on it. AW then had a conversation with VW the details of which have never been released. AW then decides (bizarrely imo) that he is going to go back outside and see if the person was still there. For some unknown reason he was and a second conversation took place which ended up with AW being shot and the envelope presumably being taken by the shooter. I've always thought AW was always going back outside and that the shooter knew this and was waiting for him on that basis.

Many years later the police have appealed for information on the envelope. VW has spoken about it but questions and responses have been tightly controlled by the police. Its not immediately clear what the police were expecting to achieve from the appeal given probably the only one who could help would be the shooter himself.

So in terms of the envelope itself there are many possibilities. AW may have been given it with something inside. There was one report where the police apparently said AW didn't open the envelope because he already knew what was inside. That doesn't fit with the general narrative though.

So possibly:

AW was given an empty envelope which he knows what it was for.
He was given an empty empty envelope and he did know what it was for.
He removed the contents before showing it to VW.
He was only pretending to be confused when discussing it with VW.
He put something in it before going back outside.
He took an empty envelope back outside as he didn't know what it was for.
He took an empty envelope back outside as he was refusing to comply with the callers demands.
He disposed of it in some way.

There is an elephant in the room for all of this though. The official line is that AW went back outside as a spur of the moment decision. If that is true then the caller had no expectation of getting it back in tbe first place so it wasn't particularly important anyway. Officially the caller had no idea AW would return outside and also no idea if he did that he would have the envelope with him. The whole thing has never really added up for me.

 

[Konstantin]

There is an elephant in the room for all of this though. The official line is that AW went back outside as a spur of the moment decision. If that is true then the caller had no expectation of getting it back in tbe first place so it wasn't particularly important anyway. Officially the caller had no idea AW would return outside and also no idea if he did that he would have the envelope with him. The whole thing has never really added up for me.

The caller had no control over what AW would do.
AW had seen his face as he was not wearing a mask. VW had seen his face. This is not a professional assassin, or if someone did pay him, he was really not competent.
The whole thing is so bizarre that it could be that the caller was just mentally unwell and psychotic.

The police have held a lot back (as is usual) to have details only the caller would know, in case someone did come forward and say it was him. This helps flush out nutters who pretend to have been involved, for one thing. The bits they have released -- the fact the envelope exists, its colour (that VW remembers -- witness memory is notoriously bad) and the fact that it had a name written on it which could be important or not (the caller could have just found an envelope discarded somewhere and used that) -- is interesting.

I agree that the envelope can't have seemed that critical to the caller since he had zero control over what happened to it once he gave it to AW. He may have taken it away because AW handed it over to him and he put it in his pocket before shooting him.

The caller didn't come to kill AW, he came to have a conversation that might have made sense only to him, if he was psychotic. He may have interpreted AW's actions through whatever story his psychosis was telling him.

Lots of it doesn't add up as a coherent story but if one hypothesizes that the caller was having a break with reality and was acting according to some story he had concocted that is not rational except to him, then it does make more sense. AW didn't know him and from what we can gather, the envelope didn't mean anything to him or VW. We don't know what he told VW, which given the police have not caught the killer, perhaps also didn't make much sense.

VW is still walking around and there is no indication that her seeing his face puts her in any danger. I find that part odd.

 

[davidt]

The caller had no control over what AW would do.
AW had seen his face as he was not wearing a mask. VW had seen his face. This is not a professional assassin, or if someone did pay him, he was really not competent.
The whole thing is so bizarre that it could be that the caller was just mentally unwell and psychotic.

The police have held a lot back (as is usual) to have details only the caller would know, in case someone did come forward and say it was him. This helps flush out nutters who pretend to have been involved, for one thing. The bits they have released -- the fact the envelope exists, its colour (that VW remembers -- witness memory is notoriously bad) and the fact that it had a name written on it which could be important or not (the caller could have just found an envelope discarded somewhere and used that) -- is interesting.

I agree that the envelope can't have seemed that critical to the caller since he had zero control over what happened to it once he gave it to AW. He may have taken it away because AW handed it over to him and he put it in his pocket before shooting him.

The caller didn't come to kill AW, he came to have a conversation that might have made sense only to him, if he was psychotic. He may have interpreted AW's actions through whatever story his psychosis was telling him.

Lots of it doesn't add up as a coherent story but if one hypothesizes that the caller was having a break with reality and was acting according to some story he had concocted that is not rational except to him, then it does make more sense. AW didn't know him and from what we can gather, the envelope didn't mean anything to him or VW. We don't know what he told VW, which given the police have not caught the killer, perhaps also didn't make much sense.

VW is still walking around and there is no indication that her seeing his face puts her in any danger. I find that part odd.

Agree with you on this. The chain of events that has been released about that night makes little sense and does not paint a coherent picture. As we know there is virtually no independent corroboration of anything that night. Like you I was surprised VW didn't move or anything. Given she's pretty much the sole witness I'd be very worried for her safety. Perhaps the police have reason to believe the perpetrator is no longer around?

 

[RichardKimble]

The caller had no control over what AW would do.
AW had seen his face as he was not wearing a mask. VW had seen his face. This is not a professional assassin, or if someone did pay him, he was really not competent.
The whole thing is so bizarre that it could be that the caller was just mentally unwell and psychotic.

The police have held a lot back (as is usual) to have details only the caller would know, in case someone did come forward and say it was him. This helps flush out nutters who pretend to have been involved, for one thing. The bits they have released -- the fact the envelope exists, its colour (that VW remembers -- witness memory is notoriously bad) and the fact that it had a name written on it which could be important or not (the caller could have just found an envelope discarded somewhere and used that) -- is interesting.

I agree that the envelope can't have seemed that critical to the caller since he had zero control over what happened to it once he gave it to AW. He may have taken it away because AW handed it over to him and he put it in his pocket before shooting him.

The caller didn't come to kill AW, he came to have a conversation that might have made sense only to him, if he was psychotic. He may have interpreted AW's actions through whatever story his psychosis was telling him.

Lots of it doesn't add up as a coherent story but if one hypothesizes that the caller was having a break with reality and was acting according to some story he had concocted that is not rational except to him, then it does make more sense. AW didn't know him and from what we can gather, the envelope didn't mean anything to him or VW. We don't know what he told VW, which given the police have not caught the killer, perhaps also didn't make much sense.

VW is still walking around and there is no indication that her seeing his face puts her in any danger. I find that part odd.

Did AW say to his wife such and such is at the door and I need to hand this back, or did he say there's some guy I don't know wanting such and such, did VW ever give an indication either way? I guess the former is out, the killer is unknown.

 

[davidt]

Did AW say to his wife such and such is at the door and I need to hand this back, or did he say there's some guy I don't know wanting such and such, did VW ever give an indication either way?

I don't think any specific details have been released other than AW asking VW if the caller definitely wanted him and VW replying saying yes, he asked for you by name. Nothing on the actual conversation itself. VW has said AW appeared confused or bewildered and didn't seem to know what was going on.

 

[CSIAngus]

My own view is that this case will remain unsolved, unless by death bed confession, because there is no connection between the perpetrator and the victim, and no connection between the victim and the motivation of the perpetrator.

 

[crazychris]

Does anyone think that Paul did mean Pay And U Live, as has been suggested?

He decided not to pay or said he didn't know what it was about, so was killed instead.